Valve Kills Steam Greenlight, Steam Direct is the Replacement

Valve has announced they’re killing off the typically abused or forlorn service, Steam Greenlight.

Its replacement is known as Steam Direct, and they’ve given a brief outline of how it will work:

“We will ask new developers to complete a set of digital paperwork, personal or company verification, and tax documents similar to the process of applying for a bank account. Once set up, developers will pay a recoupable application fee for each new title they wish to distribute, which is intended to decrease the noise in the submission pipeline.”

Valve hasn’t decided on whether or not they’ll charge a fee like they did Steam Greenlight, however developers they’ve spoken to have suggested fees ranging from $100 to $5000.

Steam Direct will replace Steam Greenlight sometime this spring.

Here’s the full statement, from Valve:

When we consider any new features or changes for Steam, our primary goal is to make customers happy. We measure that happiness by how well we are able to connect customers with great content. We’ve come to realize that in order to serve this goal we needed to move away from a small group of people here at Valve trying to predict which games would appeal to vastly different groups of customers.

Thus, over Steam’s 13-year history, we have gradually moved from a tightly curated store to a more direct distribution model. In the coming months, we are planning to take the next step in this process by removing the largest remaining obstacle to having a direct path, Greenlight. Our goal is to provide developers and publishers with a more direct publishing path and ultimately connect gamers with even more great content.

What we learned from Greenlight

After the launch of Steam Greenlight, we realized that it was a useful stepping stone for moving to a more direct distribution system, but it still left us short of that goal. Along the way, it helped us lower the barrier to publishing for many developers while delivering many great new games to Steam. There are now over 100 Greenlight titles that have made at least $1 Million each, and many of those would likely not have been published in the old, heavily curated Steam store.

These unforeseen successes made it abundantly clear that there are many different audiences on Steam, each looking for a different experience. For example, we see some people that sink thousands of hours into one or two games, while others purchase dozens of titles each year and play portions of each. Some customers are really excited about 4X strategy games, while others just buy visual novels.

Greenlight also exposed two key problems we still needed to address: improving the entire pipeline for bringing new content to Steam and finding more ways to connect customers with the types of content they wanted.

To solve these problems a lot of work was done behind the scenes, where we overhauled the developer publishing tools in Steamworks to help developers get closer to their customers. Other work has been much more visible, such as the Discovery Updates and the introduction of features like user reviews, discovery queues, user tags, streamlined refunds, and Steam Curators.

These improvements have allowed more developers to publish their games and connect with relevant gamers on Steam. One of the clearest metrics is that the average time customers spend playing games on Steam has steadily increased since the first Discovery Update. Over the same time period, the average number of titles purchased on Steam by individual customers has doubled. Both of these data points suggest that we’re achieving our goal of helping users find more games that they enjoy playing. (You can read a more detailed analysis of our recent updates here.)

A better path for digital distribution

The next step in these improvements is to establish a new direct sign-up system for developers to put their games on Steam. This new path, which we’re calling “Steam Direct,” is targeted for Spring 2017 and will replace Steam Greenlight. We will ask new developers to complete a set of digital paperwork, personal or company verification, and tax documents similar to the process of applying for a bank account. Once set up, developers will pay a recoupable application fee for each new title they wish to distribute, which is intended to decrease the noise in the submission pipeline.

While we have invested heavily in our content pipeline and personalized store, we’re still debating the publishing fee for Steam Direct. We talked to several developers and studios about an appropriate fee, and they gave us a range of responses from as low as $100 to as high as $5,000. There are pros and cons at either end of the spectrum, so we’d like to gather more feedback before settling on a number.

Just the beginning

We want to make sure Steam is a welcoming environment for all developers who are serious about treating customers fairly and making quality gaming experiences. The updates we’ve made over the past few years have been paving the way for improvements to how new titles get on to Steam, and Steam Direct represents just one more step in our ongoing process of making Steam better.

We intend to keep iterating on Steam’s shopping experience, the content pipeline and everything in between.

As we prepare to make these changes, we welcome your feedback and input on this and any other Steam issues. As always, we’ll continue to read the community’s discussions throughout the Steam forums and the web at large, and we look forward to hearing your thoughts.



Owner and Publisher at Niche Gamer and Nicchiban. Outlaw fighting for a better game industry. Pronouns: Patriarch, Guido, Olive, Catholic

  1. Dennis Zweverink
    Dennis Zweverink
    February 10, 2017 at 1:42 pm

    A fee per title might be good to deter crappy game makers to spam their games to the store, because now it’ll cost them to do so; might add some incentive to make something people will consider buying!
    I’m hoping they still send off some amount to charity, like they did with the Greenlight submission fee, though.
    Will have to see how it turns out, but I’m hoping some change is better than keeping the current system in place.

  2. TheOnceAndFutureKing
    February 10, 2017 at 1:50 pm

    This is good for indie developers who actually put in the time and effort for quality games. This way, the Indie market well wont be poisoned with low effort games looking to make a quick buck.

  3. cgaurd52
    February 10, 2017 at 1:50 pm

    Thank god!

  4. blackice85
    February 10, 2017 at 1:54 pm

    It’s good they’re changing it, but I hope it’s not too late. The store already feels over-saturated with crap, I’m assuming that is going to be left as is?

  5. luggage lad
    luggage lad
    February 10, 2017 at 2:07 pm

    Does this really mean less crap…? I have a creeping feeling this might mean MORE of it.

  6. CrusaderEsper
    February 10, 2017 at 2:08 pm

    And people are already complaining. Too many people complaining about people enjoying things that they don’t like.
    I someday want to release a game on Steam, I hope that fee isn’t absurd.

  7. Astro
    February 10, 2017 at 2:15 pm

    A system to replace Greenlight is long-past due, but I’m glad they’re actually doing something about it.

  8. Mr0303
    February 10, 2017 at 2:20 pm

    That’s interesting, but I’m not sure how does this address the main issue with Greenlight – the quality control. Perhaps the developer registration process will ensure that mostly developers who intend to make more than one game will apply, but still.

  9. MoonStar
    February 10, 2017 at 2:29 pm

    i think its less cuz no one will want to pay x amount of money to put there crappy games on there

  10. Maelstrom
    February 10, 2017 at 2:32 pm

    If they fee is per game, instead of per greenlight license, It will discourage the dumping that is going on. Someone would only put on a game they were confident they could make back their investment with, instead of dumping hundreds of games that are just slapped together in a matter of hours. The latter kind of people make a profit after just a few sales, and this new model would discourage that.

  11. ProfessorFluffy
    February 10, 2017 at 2:34 pm

    With this process it sounds like things will be a bit more hidden from consumers and we won’t know whats released till its accepted on the store. I just hope this isn’t really some ploy to regulate what they have on
    their store based more on the political views rather than quality.

  12. Mr0303
    February 10, 2017 at 2:37 pm

    That makes sense. I didn’t know that Greenlight had a one time licence fee.

    February 10, 2017 at 2:39 pm

    I don’t really get it to be honest, good games will rise to the top, shit games will fall into obscurity. It never bothered me steam is crawling with shit, I won’t play the shit games, it doesn’t bother me that they’re there, what bothers me is that it might potentially block some up and coming developer that could have made it through that system. As long as it makes it easier to some poor dev that’s living in some goddamn slum to be able to rise to the top it’s a good thing. Making the barrier of entry higher will just filter out some less resourceful devs that are trying to make their break. Who knows if something like La-Mulana, Papers Please, Hyper Light Drifter or whatever would have ever made it to Steam if the barrier of entry was higher at the start.

  14. scemar
    February 10, 2017 at 2:59 pm

    ” For example, we see some people that sink thousands of hours into one or two games, while others purchase dozens of titles each year and play portions of each. Some customers are really excited about 4X strategy games, while others just buy visual novels.”

    OH SHIT They know about the visual novels.

  15. bigbear514
    February 10, 2017 at 4:08 pm

    Why did they make it sound like people who buy visual novels aren’t that enthusiastic?

  16. stobgopper
    February 10, 2017 at 4:37 pm

    I remember a Valve exec had a similar argument, but it seems tautological to me.I mean will good games rise to the top because they are best, or are they best because they rose? A lot of Markiplier-bait meme games could be considered “best” by Steam´s rating system (sure, they dont last long, but neither do most AAA games if you think about it).

    In fact, I think this new system could avoid another goat simulator situation, because memes are really unpredictable making them risky investments.

    Also, the examples you used are not very good for this situation, La-Mulana has been a cult classic for years, the guy who made Papers had some other similar games under his belt which were less known, sure, but highly praised, and the guy who made HLD made a Kickstarter and managed to directly gauge interest from the consumers.

    And that’s dedication, which is exactly the kind of thing we need to get better games. I find it unthinkable that someone who made a timeless masterpiece wouldnt be resourceful enough to get a fundraiser going or maybe release a demo or a press kit or something, it wouldnt make sense, because that person is dedicated to their craft.

    A somewhat steep fee will make the people confident in their games make the jump and step forward, while shovelware peddlers will think twice.

    Maybe too late, sure, but as Inafking said, better than nothing.

  17. stobgopper
    February 10, 2017 at 4:42 pm

    ‘”noise in the submission pipeline”

    That’s the most business way of saying shit I’ve ever seen.

  18. stobgopper
    February 10, 2017 at 4:50 pm

    They’ll probably revamp the store to hide some garbage that they sadly cant delete.

  19. stobgopper
    February 10, 2017 at 4:55 pm

    Some will take less risks, which could get us generic stuff, pandering or microtransactions, sure ways of recovering investments, though its unlikely.
    But also a lot of indie garbage will stay in newgrounds where it belongs, so ill say less crap.

  20. Fandangle
    February 10, 2017 at 4:56 pm

    As per usual valve is too little too late. they used to be trend setters but now they only fix problems years after Introducing them and continuously introduce more and more half baked features that don’t do anything but make people angry.

    I stopped using steam after the paid mods debacle and just downloaded cracks for all the games I owned. I expect nothing less than a broken and abusable system just like greenlight, paid mods, the auction house, and the steam market place.

  21. stobgopper
    February 10, 2017 at 5:04 pm

    Nah, I genuinely think they are pissed by their garbage dump reputation. And they should, its awful.

  22. Kelborne
    February 10, 2017 at 5:17 pm

    RIP Greenlight. I’ll piss on your grave.

  23. luggage lad
    luggage lad
    February 10, 2017 at 5:36 pm

    I’ve heard La-Mulana was submitted to Steam and rejected 3 times before it came to Greenlight and made it onto the platform.

    I’ve even heard some rumor that Cave Story was rejected… CAVE STORY of all games. As bad as Valve’s curation of the steam store was, I kind of believe it.

    February 10, 2017 at 5:53 pm

    I understand your point and I can agree with some of the particulars of what you’re saying, but to me the bottom line is pretty simple. With a tighter control there’s a theoretical, mathematical probability that some good games might never get in.

    The flipside to that is that more junk gets in. Again, I don’t play the junk so I don’t really care if it’s there or not. I rather have the possibility of having more games on Steam than a Store free of junk.

    I understand that Steam has a vested interest in keeping their store clean with more quality control, but that’s their concern not mine, to me the possibility to have more games to choose from is a way more enticing proposing.

    Sorry if I’m misrepresenting your argument but how I see it you’re arguing to have less choice just for the sake of steam having a more clean library.

    And at least to in my view I don’t particularly care if a shitty game gets to Steam or not, it doesn’t affect me in any way. As the old saying goes, it’s like pissing in an ocean of piss.

  25. Zanard Bell
    Zanard Bell
    February 10, 2017 at 6:03 pm

    My gripe about Steam Greenlight wasn’t the shit games, but early access. I am hoping they could do away with that.

  26. stobgopper
    February 10, 2017 at 6:18 pm

    There must be tons of awesome games you would absolutely love but will never hear about because they are drowning in piss, no matter how many curators or websites you follow.

    Also the possibility that a game creator could make a great and memorable game but not be arsed to pay the fee is negligible. The sum could be big, sure, but not astronomically big.

    If that happens, it would probably mean that they dont care enough about their game, and thus not being dedicated to their craft, the game would end up being crappy, short, low effort, and swiftly abandoned.

    Those dedicated to their games on the other hand, willl try as hard as they can making blogs, inspiring fanart, seeking attention from the press and giving interviews, and they would also keep the support because they have confidence in their product, and more importantly, they love what they are doing, that’s why they would go so far in the first place .

    Also like luggage lad said, Steam already rejects good games in favor of shit, so it would be better that at least it rejected the shit, too.

    February 10, 2017 at 6:33 pm

    I doubt that ever happens. Good games always rise to the top eventually, it might not be a mainstream commercial success but at least a cult / niche following, it just takes more time for the momentum to build up, sometimes way too long and the devs already moved on, but quality usually gets vindicated in one way or another. It doesn’t particularly happen in all mediums but word of mouth in the vidiegam circles carries a lot of weight, and can make or break a game. But to be honest though, right now I think we’re both just arguing conjecture on trying to predict the outcome of a chaotic system, so I’ll back off.

    Either way I just want to be clear, I don’t think this measure by Valve is a particularly big deal, I’m just nitpicking that I personally rather have it the other way.

  28. GameZard
    February 10, 2017 at 7:16 pm

    Fucking finally. About time they removed that cancer.

  29. GameZard
    February 10, 2017 at 7:18 pm

    Apparently they are still trend setters as Sony started copying steam greenlight.

  30. GameZard
    February 10, 2017 at 7:19 pm

    How could they not when most of the games on steam and greenlight are VNs.

  31. GameZard
    February 10, 2017 at 7:22 pm

    The problem is when lazy cheap devs like digital homicide, flood steam with garbage and profit from it. Then other lazy poor devs see this and does the same.

  32. GameZard
    February 10, 2017 at 7:26 pm

    How did you think most of the garbage got on greenlight?

  33. GameZard
    February 10, 2017 at 7:28 pm

    If you want to be a game devloper you would need to put a lot of money in your craft anyway.

  34. Shinobu
    February 10, 2017 at 7:35 pm

    If this helps kill meme games made explicitly for Twitch streamers then I’m all for it.

  35. Jose
    February 10, 2017 at 7:46 pm

    About time.

  36. Morlab
    February 10, 2017 at 8:12 pm

    This idea that good games always do well is extremely wishful thinking, the amount of times I’ve seen or played something that is extremely well done but ultimately goes on to be seen as a sales failure has been more times than I am willing to actually count off. In a perfect world the whole Meritocracy for games might actually work, but something also can be said for proper marketing and presentation of games at this point, and not all developers/publishers are skilled at properly getting the word out about their product.

    February 10, 2017 at 8:19 pm

    I was not equating it with success in sales, I specifically said that it gets its due reward eventually, even if just as a form of cult classic. My point was that a good game will never fall into complete obscurity, at best it finds a niche audience eventually if given enough time. Again I’m not proposing the idea that quality equals sails, I was specifically countering a point. If a game is good it will eventually at least find its little niche and crawl away from the depths of complete obscurity.

  38. Zombie_Barioth
    February 10, 2017 at 8:22 pm

    The complaints aren’t about “people enjoying things other people don’t like”, its that Greenlight itself has had created a huge problem of low-quality shovelware and asset-flips exploiting and clogging the system.

    Are you familiar with Digital Homicide? There are a lot of similarly nasty studios abusing Greenlight.

    As for the fees, I think a good solution there would be to base the fee on the studio’s income, rather than have a flat rate. That’s actually how the ESRB handles theirs, and its been enough to curb spamming submissions.

  39. Josh
    February 10, 2017 at 8:23 pm

    “We want to make sure Steam is a welcoming environment for all developers who are serious about treating customers fairly and making quality gaming experiences.”

    Good bye SJW devs.

  40. EroBotan
    February 10, 2017 at 8:41 pm

    … I’m doomed …

  41. TheOnceAndFutureKing
    February 10, 2017 at 8:47 pm

    too bad, I was really looking forward to another Myst knock off that takes ten minutes to beat, but somehow deserves a 10/10 because its protagonist is a biracial midget transvestite in a wheelchair.

  42. braneman
    February 10, 2017 at 11:28 pm

    One thing I think this will most likely solve is Digital Homicides “50 different developer names” solution for preventing people from recognizing their garbage.

  43. stobgopper
    February 11, 2017 at 12:33 am

    Well, while I understand what you are saying, I dont think it is true. Many great games could have slipped through the radar to never be known. How can we even know, really.

  44. catazxy
    February 11, 2017 at 1:02 am

    I can’t wait to see SJWs asking for money to pay the Steam Direct fee along with the crappy game they wanna make.

  45. Fandangle
    February 11, 2017 at 1:49 am

    That’s not saying much. Sony copies everything, even bad ideas.

  46. Tubsiwub
    February 11, 2017 at 3:01 am

    Greenlight was garbage, but at the same time… it’s not looking wonderful for really small indie devs.

  47. Himegami Aisa
    Himegami Aisa
    February 11, 2017 at 4:20 am

    It’s a matter of proving a negative, listing good games people have never heard of, but I’m pretty sure everyone knows games they think are underrated (also very subjective, come to think of it). The idea that good games will inevitably have some measure of success is naïve at best.

  48. NuclearKangaroo
    February 11, 2017 at 9:29 am

    i never thought greenlight was such a big problem but whatever

  49. NuclearKangaroo
    February 11, 2017 at 9:29 am

    however it could also be a barrier keeping some devs from being able to publish their games

  50. Queen Cheng
    Queen Cheng
    February 11, 2017 at 10:16 am

    Can’t agree more. It has become very similar to Google Play and Apple Store where we see a lot of new games that no one’s playing more than 7 days.

  51. TheOnceAndFutureKing
    February 11, 2017 at 10:27 am

    Its the same problem that caused that crash in the early 80’s. A lot of developers devote their time to making Flappy Bird type of cheap games in great succession in order spread out their bets and make fast cash.

  52. Malcolm_Ecks
    February 11, 2017 at 11:27 am

    “I don’t really get it to be honest, good games will rise to the top, shit games will fall into obscurity. It never bothered me steam is crawling with shit, I won’t play the shit games, it doesn’t bother me that they’re there, what bothers me is that it might potentially block some up and coming developer that could have made it through that system.”

    That’s kind of the problem though. A bunch of the approved games weren’t even finished while games that were being sold on other platforms were blocked by taken slots or rejected. If Greenlight required games to be done before they were approved that would have solve a large portion of the problem with it. Games like ‘Towns’ should have never been approved. Early Access was put in place to kind of mitigate that problem but as with a lot of Valve’s decisions, it was done a tad too late. I get what you mean about avoiding crap games, but the discoverability of good games on Steam took a major hit when Greenlight came out. There was just a LOT of bad games selling well for a long while.

    ” As long as it makes it easier to some poor dev that’s living in some goddamn slum to be able to rise to the top it’s a good thing. Making the barrier of entry higher will just filter out some less resourceful devs that are trying to make their break. Who knows if something like La-Mulana, Papers Please, Hyper Light Drifter or whatever would have ever made it to Steam if the barrier of entry was higher at the start.”

    I think good indie games were hitting Steam like crazy before Greenlight due to word of mouth and YouTube/Twitch people showcasing them so well. I personally think the barrier should be higher. That’s the fault of lazy developers though.

  53. Funtime Happysnacks
    Funtime Happysnacks
    February 11, 2017 at 1:03 pm

    Yeah they greenlit such incredible titles as Murasaki Mist, Life of Black Tiger, and Skylight Freerange 2!

  54. Funtime Happysnacks
    Funtime Happysnacks
    February 11, 2017 at 1:31 pm

    Might be that frequent buyers of VNs tend not to buy games outside that genre? Or something.

  55. LaTaleFan1985
    February 11, 2017 at 4:23 pm

    Good. Getting rid of Steam Greenlight was long overdue anyways. Let’s hope this new plan works. :)

  56. UnpluggedBeta
    February 11, 2017 at 9:44 pm

    That’s the whole idea; one man’s shit is another dev’s “revolutionary rpg maker paradigm shift.”

  57. UnpluggedBeta
    February 11, 2017 at 9:47 pm

    Unbelievable; that’s a great argument for allowing shit in just so that we don’t miss out on the gems. Like it or not, PC-gaming is synonymous with steam at this point and, if you’re not on steam, you might as well be invisible.

  58. MogsK
    February 11, 2017 at 10:16 pm

    Yeah, because that was the problem, and not the >9k Unity-based asset-flips meant to appeal to the edgy tryhard twitch-obsessed gamer bro demographic

  59. TheOnceAndFutureKing
    February 11, 2017 at 10:35 pm

    unoriginal games are a problem too, but when avant garde sjw bullcrap hogs all the favorable press, it gives a bad image to indie developers.

  60. EroBotan
    February 11, 2017 at 11:59 pm

    making blogs and stuff is not enough, social skill like the ability to convince people is needed too and not everyone are good at it

  61. Fenrir007
    February 12, 2017 at 9:46 am

    Hopefully this stops the tide of shitty RPG Maker cash grabs with terrible writing and stock art.

  62. Dennis Zweverink
    Dennis Zweverink
    February 12, 2017 at 11:54 am

    Nah, they won’t charge small indies much, so it’d be an investment if you make something good. Don’t forget if you publish on iOS or Android you pay a yearly fee to keep your games on the store, even if you’re not making money off of them anymore; on Steam you need to make your publishing fee back once per title in this case, and anything after that goes towards dev costs/profits.

  63. Travis Touchdown
    Travis Touchdown
    February 12, 2017 at 12:08 pm

    Looking at you, LISA.

  64. Travis Touchdown
    Travis Touchdown
    February 12, 2017 at 12:12 pm

    Valve is definitely on the way out. Greenlight really should have been replaced a long time ago, and now they’re talking about forcing people to pay for mods.

  65. Himegami Aisa
    Himegami Aisa
    February 12, 2017 at 5:22 pm

    Well nowadays I don’t think Valve has any prentence of monitoring quality control on Steam and it certainly shows (even ignoring early access/greenlight).

  66. NuclearKangaroo
    February 12, 2017 at 7:16 pm

    aye i can see it, but remember not all devs are in the same economic conditions, and if you take into account devs from different countries with different economic conditions the problem gets worse

  67. NuclearKangaroo
    February 12, 2017 at 7:19 pm

    ok but plenty of good games have come from small devs that might not be able to deal with the new fees

    i can always ignore shitty games, but if a game is not on steam it might be harder to find, less people know about, word of mouth gets less far

  68. MogsK
    February 12, 2017 at 7:49 pm

    You can’t “hog” favorable press, it’s not a commodity or finite resource. A game isn’t looked over because some “sjw bullcrap” stole it’s thunder, it’s because it failed to capture the attention of people who produce gaming press.

    Also, what bad image? Indie developers are regularly framed as one of the cornerstones of what are keeping gaming alive right now, and it’s precisely because they offer so many alternatives to the rote formula of AAA-game production, something that allows whatever games you’d prefer to coexist alongside so-called “sjw bullcrap”, and if the latter is getting more attention in press, it’s because whatever is passed over just isn’t doing anything new or interesting enough.

  69. TheOnceAndFutureKing
    February 12, 2017 at 8:35 pm

    Nope, a lot of the gaming press has been exposed for having an agenda, which is why they gave SJW games like Gone Homo or Depression Quest 10/10 scores, thats some corruption right there because real gamers certainly don’t feel that those reviews are fair.

    Promoting garbage like those games as the pinnacle of indie games gives the market a bad name, I’ve already seen several people write off all indie games because they assume every game is pretentious SJW avant garde bs. The best quality indie games were helped made famous through real gamers.

  70. Duce Ralli
    Duce Ralli
    February 12, 2017 at 10:53 pm

    Wasn’t that move repealed a hella long time back?

  71. Shattno
    February 13, 2017 at 2:15 am

    What do you mean exposed? Why don’t people understand that all press has an agenda, it exists to create opinion. It’s also impossible for humans to be objective, everything is subjective. I don’t understand why people get upset when they realise journalists write about and promote things that are important to them, how did they not know that’s how it works?

  72. Himegami Aisa
    Himegami Aisa
    February 13, 2017 at 2:28 am

    The actual story was Quinn sleeping her way to good reviews and coverage, but the downfall of gamergate was that people cared mainly because of it being a juicy scandal and it flattered their ideological slants, and that’s why it devolved into constant twitter retardation, making fun of every clickbait article polygon and kotaku shit out and jumping down the throats of people who disagreed with them and shitting on their games.

  73. Josh
    February 13, 2017 at 2:45 am

    I disagree with your statement that favorable press is not a finite rwsource. It may not be finite in the sense that they can write as much as they possibly want, but it is finite in the sense that the writers can only pay attention to a certain number of different things at a time, and games only have a certain window of time up to gheir launch to get good coverage, or they slip by audiences undetected and sell poorly. If a game doesn’t get covered because it launches around the same time some blue haired landwhale creates a shitty thing in flash and gets “harassed” on twitter that her game sucks, thas tough luck for that game because all the media outlets are going to be focusing on their protect the whales campaign.

  74. TheOnceAndFutureKing
    February 13, 2017 at 8:19 am

    Certain press have been exposed for having an SJW bias or selectively giving favorable press to personal friends of theirs.

    Lol, youre relativistic philosophy is self contradictory. Saying everything is subjective is an absolutist statement to make lmfao. You might as well say “only a sith deals in absolutes”.

  75. Shattno
    February 13, 2017 at 9:03 am

    Of course they have, because they’re people, people do shit like that. How is this different than what the rest of the press is doing, stop holding game press to a different standard.
    Also stop with the contradiction bullshit, you know exactly what I mean. People can’t be objective because they are influenced by their experiences.

  76. TheOnceAndFutureKing
    February 13, 2017 at 9:23 am

    Yeah, and its corrupt to give a game favorable press because youre emotionally compromised to do so. I know game taste is subjective, but you can still objectively judge a game based on its technical features.

    For example, I don’t like the movie Titanic, but I’m not going to say its a poorly made movie that doesn’t deserve the hype it got.

  77. draconian139
    February 13, 2017 at 10:10 am

    People can strive for objectivity. They can maintain professional distance, they can recuse themselves from covering friends. The lack of any attempt to do so is what makes them so bad. As far as the rest of the press being bad I’ll agree, they need overhauled as well.

  78. Himegami Aisa
    Himegami Aisa
    February 13, 2017 at 10:25 am

    Reviews necessarily deal with the subjective, with the objective things like how buggy it was and choppy the framerate was in that area informing the review throughout. Without either of those factors it’s just a specs review/trivia section on IMDB or a 12yo ranting on gamefaqs.

    If someone liked a game about a retarded wheelchair-bound lesbian latina tranny’s struggle with her identity because it was the most touching game they’ve ever played, that’s as much their right to cover it favourably as it is yours to ignore their awful opinions like the plague. That doesn’t count as an ethical problem.

  79. Shattno
    February 13, 2017 at 11:12 am

    You’re missing the point here, why would they strive for objectivity when the goal is to push an agenda? No one needs to be overhauled, the press is doing exactly what its designed to do, create public opinion, whether you like it or not.

  80. Shattno
    February 13, 2017 at 11:13 am

    Exactly, and that’s why people come to places like this that mirror their own opinions.

  81. UnpluggedBeta
    February 13, 2017 at 11:41 am

    That’s the point; devs not willing to fork over a few shekels are hopefully the ones currently shitting all over the service. Moreover, we are inundated with games, even good ones, as it is.

  82. TheOnceAndFutureKing
    February 13, 2017 at 12:27 pm

    Yes, but it doesn’t deserve a score of 10/10 if the reviewer only likes it for a superficial reason like the game’s story resonating with his personal beliefs, a 10/10 should be a game that breaks boundaries and sets examples for other games to follow.

    As a JRPG fan, I would probably be more generous towards reviewing JRPGs, but I’m not gonna be throwing around perfect scores just because the game fits my taste.

  83. Himegami Aisa
    Himegami Aisa
    February 13, 2017 at 1:18 pm

    You can disagree with their scores and think they’re shit reviewers but fundamentally someone on Polygon rating Gone Home a perfect score or whatever people sperged out about is not a journalistic issue.

    Being able to step back and consider something from multiple angles while considering your own biases just makes you a more well-balanced and reasonable reviewer. It’s not an ethical requirement.

  84. TheOnceAndFutureKing
    February 13, 2017 at 2:03 pm

    A journalist is free to give whatever reviews he wants, but if hes letting a personal agenda negatively affect his reviews rather than objectively criticizing the quality of the game, then there is nothing wrong with gamers rejecting that. This is basic journalistic integrity.

  85. draconian139
    February 13, 2017 at 2:44 pm

    The point of the press is not to push an agenda, its to inform the populous. That’s the very reason the press was given special protections. If they want to abdicate themselves from that responsibility then those special protections should be revoked.

  86. Shattno
    February 13, 2017 at 3:22 pm

    That might have been the original idea, but it hasn’t been the reality for a long time. The reality is that when the press inform the people they chose what to report and how much of it to report. Sometimes they do it to push an opinion, sometimes to sell more newspapers and sometimes they do it without knowing it, simply because the information is filtered through a human. The point is that the press is used as a tool to control the opinion of the people all the time, and even when its not it’s still not objective, because humans are really bad at being objective. Sure you could argue that their special protections should be revoked and you might even be right, but making that happen is not so easy as you have to use the very medium you are trying to change to change it.

  87. Andrew Krasy
    Andrew Krasy
    February 13, 2017 at 5:54 pm

    People have been “paying for mods” for years now on the curated Workshops..

  88. TheOnceAndFutureKing
    February 13, 2017 at 6:21 pm

    ideological slants? Wtf? No its about keeping politics and crony capitalism out of game journalism.

    All the sites that published the “gamers are dead” articles were exposed for taking orders from the same source, which is why they pushed their agendas in their reviews, they had a business incentive to do so. Zoe Quinn just proved that journalism is even more corrupt when people exchange sex for favorable coverage, the common consensus on her “game” is certainly not 10/10, thats artificially inflated hype.

    Youre free to make as shitty of an SJW game if you want, but its not fair if other more talented indie developers get shunned just because their games didn’t resonate with the correct political agenda. It also doesn’t make gamers biased if they reject the SJW games, most of the time they suck anyways since its made by sensationalists who would rather make more money off of being a professional victim.

  89. stobgopper
    February 13, 2017 at 7:36 pm

    And that’s good.

    People with no social skills dont make good games.

    You have to learn from other people, you have to collaborate and have basic considerations like punctuality, quality control, taking opinions and respecting your playerbase.

    Keeping your game supported and updated means that you will probably deal with people, a lot.

  90. Himegami Aisa
    Himegami Aisa
    February 14, 2017 at 12:07 am

    No-one seems to complain when Niche Gamer talks political, but I guess they have the right kind of politics. Or maybe journalists are entitled to discuss whatever topic they feel like. And lol, crony capitalism.

    Collusion, bribery and general corruption are serious issues in the industry. There’s no denying there’s been some grave issues uncovered. But there’s been far more circlejerking about progressivism in general (BUT IT’S ALL LINKED THE SJW CANCER IS GOING TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD also funny you mention politics….), twitter spats with people whether they actually did something dubious or expressed criticism, from the insane to the well-reasoned, or even just stood up for a friend being harangued and shitting on whatever Anita Sarkeesian’s latest video is, not realising people who hate Anita Sarkeesian are like 80% of her audience and thus revenue. This is why I have no interest in engagin with the movement as a whole.

    The fact that people concentrate on the absolute bottom feeder clickbait shit at Kotaku and Polygon really seals the deal for me. What concerns me is the practices of many larger studios and outlets. Jeff Gerstmann was no doubt the tip of the iceberg (and that was way back when), but it’s a lot harder to investigate potential corruption in IGN or whatever than to be outraged at retardation.

    It may not be “fair” that games with SJW biases get better reviews. If there’s a real conflict of interest that’s a matter of journalistic integrity, but otherwise, no. It’s also not fair that absolute horseshit youtuber bait and the sleaziest mobage get the big bucks, but life really isn’t fair. If you want to make it right, supporting games you think were good and better deserving of attention (there’s plenty of cases of pandering on this end and people are stupid enough to eat that shit up without realising the hypocrisy) is the way to go. If you find yourself nauseated by editorials about the evils of white people, find a new site. I certainly did.

  91. EroBotan
    February 14, 2017 at 1:14 am

    since when social skills is required in making good game? You’re pushing it too far lol

    collaborating doesn’t really need social skills that much either, just basic one is enough. What collaborating need is discipline.

    Good social skill is only needed in marketing.

  92. stobgopper
    February 14, 2017 at 3:15 am

    Ohh, you need them. You are not making a game for yourself, but for other people, so you need to understand them.
    Unless you wanna release a game in newgrounds or something, you are gonna need to interact with people. And those games should not be on steam anyway unless they are particularly remarkable.
    And yeah, for marketing too, and that’s a really important part. A good game that no one plays is pretty pointless.

  93. TheOnceAndFutureKing
    February 14, 2017 at 10:30 am

    Ive only been on this site for like three months, but I never see it get political, which is the way I want it, framing this as left vs right is just a distraction.

    You seem to be against people who only pick on low hanging fruit, which I 100% agree with you on. I don’t care about just whining over Polygon’s latest PC article, I already do my part by not giving them any attention. Im for the true cause of GG which is exposing corruption like Phil Fishes racketeering scam where he bribed judges to award Fez the winner of an Indie game contest two years in a row, developers paying journalists whether its with money or sex to gain favorable coverage, and numerous game sites being simultaneously ordered to try and convince game developers to ignore their consumers over political matters.

    Yes, its unfair when journalists have been emotionally compromised into giving skewed reviews. However, its becoming less of a problem when real gamers open honest sites like this one, or just go to other platforms like Youtube.

  94. Himegami Aisa
    Himegami Aisa
    February 14, 2017 at 12:44 pm

    Ignoring the shitfest about a month ago about appeasing advertisers, political shit only rears it head here once in a blue moon, which is how I like it. Particularly nowadays I can’t seem to get away from in particular people obsessing over Trump so much as farting in the Oval Office where their political opinions are entirely unwarranted, so it’s nice to read an outlet that doesn’t involve itself in shit completely out of its purview.

    Personally I lost interest in GG shit when 90% of it was arguing with fucking Brianna Wu and people of her calibre or posting the lastest lunacy to come out of a Queer Studies class. I’ve seen some pretty nasty things come out of fuckwits who go way too far with this bullshit. I still support its stated aims but I wouldn’t really associate myself with the movement because of that. Full respect for anyone holding the fort on keeping gaming journalism accountable, though.

    In any case it’s clear on the whole I agree with you. I can’t say I really disagree with anything you said there.

  95. TheOnceAndFutureKing
    February 14, 2017 at 5:56 pm

    I just got tired of websites delegitimizing people like me just because we want apolitical coverage. So I escaped to places like here where the reviews are free of such a ridiculous bias.

    GG was good in the beginning, but it got more and more subverted and eventually watered down its core message by trying to please SJWs. However their work is done, gamers fought back and we are now more relevant than the gaming press in the eyes of developers. So there is no point fighting back when the enemy is dead, Brianna and all them left the industry because they can’t capitalize off of their 15 minutes anymore.

    I’m glad we agree. Just remember that even if you distance yourself from idiots who would rather shitpost, the fact that you want apolitical gaming news is already enough for some to label you as an extremist.

  96. Queen Cheng
    Queen Cheng
    February 15, 2017 at 7:22 am

    True. It is also not good for us consumers, it becomes very hard to find those games that were developed with loved and a dedicated developer who wants to keep improving it.

    A good move indeed, filter it, we get to see the serious, mid-term or perhaps long-term ones and give our support to them.

  97. TheOnceAndFutureKing
    February 15, 2017 at 8:38 am

    Exactly, I only discovered a great game like Oniken by complete accident.

  98. NuclearKangaroo
    February 16, 2017 at 5:19 pm

    “Moreover, we are inundated with games, even good ones, as it is.”

    i fail to see the problem familia