People Need to Get Over Themselves Being Outraged at Fanservice in Video Games

This is an editorial piece. The views and opinions expressed in this article are those of the author and do not necessarily represent the views and opinions of, and should not be attributed to, Niche Gamer as an organization.

So coming off of a few articles in the recent past, we’ve once again all been reminded that sexuality is bad, liking younger women makes you pure evil, and there is far too many things that shouldn’t exist. Gaming needs to grow up, be art, not for fun, and strive to be this great thing for everyone – and that means that it needs to be written, presented, and designed to not offend anyone. Ever.

Japanese games are the worst ‘offender’ in these cases. Games featuring any images with scantily clad women are immediately hate on, utterly disregarding the rest of the game, or the situation around the game.

Let’s discuss a recent example that’s come under fire; Dungeon Travelers 2. If there has been any game to come under fire without people understanding what’s behind the game and where it comes from, this is it.

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Dungeon Travelers 2 is being published by Aquaplus, an eroge publisher – many people know that. I’ve seen such posted in comments around articles written about the game. But Dungeon Travelers 2 is a sequel – who knew! – to ToHeart 2: Dungeon Travelers. The whole series is a spin-off of the ToHeart visual novel series, which was heavily romance focused. Yet, despite that, people continue to hate on the game for no reason other than the existence of fanservice.

It’s utterly unfair for a game like this to get hate without people at least understanding what it’s coming from. And while ToHeart has suffered this fate, it’s not the first game to deal with it, and it certainly won’t be the last.

It, like many others, falls into the trap of cultural differences. Westerners fail to understand why characters in Japanese games are young, generally at around High School age – often times even younger – but they’ll deal with issues that adults can’t even seem to grasp sometimes. Unfortunately the meaning is lost here.

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Meet Takamachi Nanoha, the 9 year old protagonist of her own series, spun off from an Eroge series, that deals with far more adult stuff than you’d ever guess.

Japan’s culture is all about seishun, but there’s not even an English word to capture the meaning quite like it. While it’s often just translated as youth, seishun means so much more than that. It’s a word that captures the vivaciousness of someone’s youth. Their passion, and drive, and energy that comes from their youth. There’s just no way to capture that concept in the West since no one sees the word mean anything beyond youth – when kids are just being kids.

Seishun is the reason so many Japanese games feature young adults. They are able to be reckless and wholeheartedly involved in anything they get mixed up in. You can’t say the same of an adult – and that much at least still holds true in the West. When was the last time you saw an adult get mixed up in a fantasy situation and roll with the punches? Adults are generally too serious, stuck in their ways, and too cynical to be enjoyable main characters in many of those situations. (The keyword here is enjoyable)

The culture difference is just too far gone for people to understand things like that. And then comes the nail in the coffin in many of these games; fanservice. Now I do understand the knee jerk reaction that seeing younger women (like 14 or 15 years old) scantily clad or in compromising situations makes people uncomfortable. And here’s where I’m going to throw a curveball – the age of consent in Japan is 13. Girls that are 14 or 15 are not underage the way we think of. Again, it’s just a difference in culture and upbringing. It’s not wrong, just different.

Culture barriers are one of the biggest problems when it comes to judging games outside of your individual comfort zone. These differences need to be learned, or at least considered, when talking about a game like it is bad.

I want to make it clear that you thinking a game is bad is fine. That is your own prerogative as a consumer. However, people need to get out of this habit of calling something objectively bad because they don’t like it. It’s an incredibly bad habit that too many people have fallen into recently, and it’s running rampant.

But even worse than that is people judging games based upon their own culture’s standards when it wasn’t designed for their culture. This problem is what is hurting Japanese-developed games most right now. Westerners approve of gratuitous violence (Look at the SAW series. Case and point.) but can’t stomach sexuality, or immediately move to call it porn. In stark contrast, Japanese culture embrace sexuality, and instead look down on gratuitous violence. And this happened across all media in their culture, too, not just gaming.

But I’m going to go one step further to make a point. When was the last time you saw a major Western game focus on an utterly non-violent, non-deviant form of romance? Not that here I mean a game where the romance was the focus, not beating up the bad guys or getting through the next area, but just the romance. Has that EVER happened in a Western game that didn’t adopt Japanese stylings to do so? Whereas hundreds upon hundreds of games in Japan focus solely on romance, with no ulterior goal. And while, yes, most games do have hentai scenes in this case, is that not the natural course of things? Let’s be honest people.

But even then, many don’t. One of my favorites (Amagami) is delightfully devoid of any H-scenes, and focuses completely on the love between characters. It’s touching and just ultimately a feel-good story. I can’t think of a Western game that doesn’t just have violence for the sake of violence. And yet, fanservice of the smallest degree is immediately put down in the West as vile.

People just need to get over the inclusion of fanservice and the like. I mean, tons of great games include fanservice. Look at Senran Kagura, for example. Great game, plenty of fanservice. For as much hate as Monster Monpiece got for it’s ludicrous fanservice, the game was actually really, really good for a trading card game. And then there are eroge like Fate/Stay Night, Kanaon, Shuffle!, Utawarerumono, Tsukihime, and that list goes on and on. Every single one of the ones I mentioned are absolutely fantastic stories and games that all deserve a chance at being played.

Again, I’m not saying that violence or fanservice is a bad thing. They’re just different. And people need to realize that before they go gallivanting through an article telling people how terrible they are for liking something that they personally don’t agree with, especially for something like fanservice.

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In fact, I would dare someone who thinks fanservice and eroge are bad to play through a game like Kanon or Clannad.


I'm a pretty chill guy. Huge video game fan, but a bigger anime fan. I also love to write - obviously.

  1. Dom The Elegy
    Dom The Elegy
    May 13, 2015 at 4:19 pm

    But if I don’t force my tastes on /everyone/, even going so far as demanding changes to stuff I wouldn’t buy either way under the guise of self-diagnosed mental health issues, how would people truly find out how much of an obnoxious twat I really can be?

  2. Teutates
    May 13, 2015 at 4:19 pm

    This so much >__>

  3. blarghonk25
    May 13, 2015 at 4:21 pm

    I could care less if the game has fan service or not as long as the game is fun I’m happy

  4. Dino
    May 13, 2015 at 4:24 pm

    Good piece, I think that a fair few biases against these kinds of Japanese games are based on a cultural misunderstanding. Does that mean that Japanese developers aren’t cynical suits looking to cash in on the otaku market? Not completely, but it’s definitely unfair to criticise the content of these games without understanding that the primary market for them is quite different to what we’re used to in the west.

    And for the record, Clannad still makes me cry like a baby.

  5. Azure
    May 13, 2015 at 4:24 pm


    *Mortal Kombat X scene of a guy getting his insides pulled out of his mouth in the background*


  6. Patrick Toworfe
    Patrick Toworfe
    May 13, 2015 at 4:25 pm

    Well said. Point is that THE WHOLE WORLD isn’t as prudish as the West or US specifically and just cause someone thinks something is bad doesn’t mean everyone else should. They’re free to think what they want, but don’t overstep and crap on what other people like.

  7. Chris Gregoria
    Chris Gregoria
    May 13, 2015 at 4:26 pm

    Clannad has that effect on people.

    …Well, most Key novels do. I’m -still- upset about Makoto T.T

  8. BeholdMyPower
    May 13, 2015 at 4:27 pm

    Guns, cuts, blood, guts, knives: -_-

    Breasts: To the OUTRAGE MOBILE!

  9. Landale
    May 13, 2015 at 4:27 pm

    Don’t forget, the new Mortal Kombat also had vague allusions to a character being gay that were only confirmed out of the game itself. Such wonderful progressive content!
    Meanwhile Japanese games that may hint at gay characters, without outside confirmation, or actually outright depict them are utterly vile things.

  10. Dom The Elegy
    Dom The Elegy
    May 13, 2015 at 4:29 pm

    Persona 4 had the best gay character I’ve seen in any medium.
    Also Steins;Gate had a wonderful crossdressing character without ever mocking him. It was just who he was and the group was supportive of his choice.

  11. Brandon Knightley
    Brandon Knightley
    May 13, 2015 at 4:31 pm

    Preach it man, I have been waiting for someone to say this :-D

  12. Landale
    May 13, 2015 at 4:31 pm

    Yosuke was rather great.

  13. Pete D
    Pete D
    May 13, 2015 at 4:31 pm

    Well. Said. I have nothing more to add.

    Apart from all this, if you’ll pardon my self-promotion: http://moegamer.net/2015/05/13/lets-talk-about-dungeon-travelers-2-and-ecchi-content/

    I’m glad this is getting talked about as much as it is. Critics like Kollar have every right to dislike this sort of thing and can criticise it as much as they like… but the second they start stepping into “morality police” territory, making blanket moral judgements, in this case with regard to a game that he hasn’t played and clearly doesn’t know much about, that becomes unacceptable.

    Criticise all you like. But no-one has the right to say what “should” and “should not” exist.

  14. Patrick Toworfe
    Patrick Toworfe
    May 13, 2015 at 4:31 pm

    Yeah that whole sentiment annoyed me. People don’t get that what pissed people off about NRS’ statements about making the women ‘more realistic’ is that is was STUPID. If they had simply said they were redesigning the characters to make the art and physique closer to that of the live action style of previous games, fair enough. But instead they made this retarded SJW-esque comment about not ‘setting impossible standards’ for women, then weeks later said ‘oh but the violence isn’t realistic right guys’. The whole thing was a damn mess. Game is good though, regardless of that

  15. Dom The Elegy
    Dom The Elegy
    May 13, 2015 at 4:36 pm

    Yosuke isn’t gay doe. I was referring to Kanji.

  16. Mike Nieto
    Mike Nieto
    May 13, 2015 at 4:37 pm

    I agree. I’m very annoyed at the fact that I can’t discuss games like Dungeon Travelers 2 and Monster Monpiece in NeoGAF because they banned any threads about them. Yet, discussions about Jason’s fatalities have hundreds of replies. It’s very hypocrite to say the least. The same happens in social networks.

    During all my time as a gamer, I’ve come to the conclusion that no matter where it comes from, a game must be at least tried once before judging it. Right now, as an adult gamer, I’ve realized that things like Atelier, Senran Kagura, Dead or Alive and Final Fantasy give me much more fun time than things like Call of Duty or Assassins Creed.

  17. Azure
    May 13, 2015 at 4:40 pm

    Because one side is for the money and the other is for the passion.

  18. Pyrotek85
    May 13, 2015 at 4:45 pm

    I completely agree. If anything, I would think the West’s focus on violence is more dangerous than the sex. Even then, we’re not all turning into crazed murderers from all the violent games and movies, so what the hell are they afraid of with respect to (primarily Japanese) games featuring sexual content? The hypocrisy from many of these critics is palpable.

    And games either are art or they’re not. The content is irrelevant. It’s the same with any other medium like movies or even the traditional paintings and sculptures we’ve had for hundreds of years. You don’t call the ones like ‘art’ and the ones you don’t like ‘not art’.

  19. patyos
    May 13, 2015 at 4:45 pm

    NeoGAf been dead since forever cant talk about video games without getting banned in less then an hour

  20. Pyrotek85
    May 13, 2015 at 4:46 pm

    I couldn’t even get into Neogaf back when I tried to make an account once lol

  21. patyos
    May 13, 2015 at 4:48 pm

    They think if games feature sex the players will turn into Rapists

    Same shit as when people used to say Violence in games turns people into Murderers

  22. Landale
    May 13, 2015 at 4:48 pm

    Kanji never really came off as gay. His hangup was on the things he enjoys doing being considered unmanly, compounded by confusion in regards to being attracted to someone he thought might be a guy. Even once it’s known that Naoto is a girl, that attraction never goes away and he never really shows interest in anyone but her. Not even his shadow was really all that gay, it was more a clash of masculine and feminine extremes, but in the end it was very specifically based on his desire to be accepted for who he is not what people expect on sight.
    Yosuke on the other hand felt rather ambiguous. Maybe he was, maybe he wasn’t. But between the two he’s the one that feels like it the most.

  23. Fhc Brasil
    Fhc Brasil
    May 13, 2015 at 4:53 pm

    I love fanservice games. I always buy all of them.

  24. Mr0303
    May 13, 2015 at 4:55 pm

    Angry Joe is a SJW lite. Not too surprising. After all he supported our dear friend Anita in one of his videos.

  25. Nani Sore
    Nani Sore
    May 13, 2015 at 4:57 pm

    That is actually a really fair point. The people that “dislike” those games aren´t the target audience so why ffs are they even talking about them.

  26. Audie Bakerson
    Audie Bakerson
    May 13, 2015 at 5:02 pm

    “the age of consent in Japan is 13.” is not entirely correct. It’s correct in the same way “there’s no age of consent in the United States” is true. That’s only the federal law, it’s always made higher at “lower” levels.

  27. MusouTensei
    May 13, 2015 at 5:03 pm

    Great article, thank you!

  28. Neojames82
    May 13, 2015 at 5:11 pm

    He’s friends with her? Ugh…Joe, you fool. I thought he was a neutral in the whole Gamergate scene. GUESS I WAS WRONG!

  29. Mr0303
    May 13, 2015 at 5:14 pm

    What we’re seeing here is that the old gatekeepers are closed minded and unfamiliar with any other cultures.

    Ancient Greek and Roman sculptures were tributes to the human body. All their gods took human forms – they personified the forces of nature with the greatest thing they could imagine – our own body.

    How about the classical arts? Leonardo used the human body as a template of both his art and science.

    Even if we look at comic books – a very American industry – we’ll see that the artists are purposefully drawing the heroes in skin tight suits so they can compliment their body features. It is a trick they used to draw naked bodies without actually doing so.

    So what is the problem with it in gaming? Like the article mentioned I’ve seen many accusations that game X is for pedophiles or perverts because boobs. This outrage culture is so limiting and boring. These people are accusing anyone who doesn’t align with their worldviews of a thought crime. It is sad really. After 100 000 years we still fear our own bodies.

  30. Mr0303
    May 13, 2015 at 5:16 pm

    He’s not friends with her as far as I know, but he did defend her when she first started her stupid series. Because she was a woman he didn’t address any of the false idiocies she spouted.

  31. buddyluv324
    May 13, 2015 at 5:17 pm

    When it comes down to it with these types of games, it all comes down to maturity. There has to be a point where we as games have to have a specific level of maturity to take in these sorts of themes in our games. We also have to take some personal responsibility and decide for ourselves weather or now we can handle these types of games. The recent trend of kneejerking outrage is ridiculous and counterproductive showing that not only they lack a specific maturity level but they’re not part of that demographic from the start. The outcries in social media is something of a disturbing fetish for these people.

  32. Neojames82
    May 13, 2015 at 5:18 pm

    Thank you for writing this Chris, it echoes what I been saying for the longest time.

    I mean movies, TV shows and novels have all kinds of themes to them. Not all of them are some sort of social/political themed statement. Some are just created because they are meant to be fun *GASP* I said the f word, oh no!!!

    I mean I know gaming as evolved and a lot more people want different experiences now more than ever and I’m more than okay with that. If you want to make a game about a paraplegic; transgender minority that is not much more than an interactive novel, go for it! With the independent scene it is not easier than before to get games out there for the public to see that are not the usual kinds of games.

    But don’t start dictating to me or other that if X and Y are not put into this game that it is just “trash”. Not ever damn game out there needs a deep and thought provoking story or protagonist nor has to tackle some geopolitical issue. Sometimes, I just want to have FUN with games. OOPS THERE’S THAT WORD AGAIN I’M SO EVIL FOR PROMOTING SUCH A THING IN VIDEO GAMES!!!

  33. Neojames82
    May 13, 2015 at 5:18 pm

    He probably didn’t want to lose viewers because his videos are probably the only thing that is making him money these days. Heaven forbid he actually gets a more solid job in his life.

  34. Mr0303
    May 13, 2015 at 5:20 pm

    I don’t think Anita is very popular in the gaming community. I think he did it because of a white knight duty towards anyone with a fanny.

  35. RetroGamer
    May 13, 2015 at 5:21 pm

    From what I could tell, Kanji was having a bit of an identity crisis in which he doubted his own masculinity/sexuality. As Landale already pointed out, he was attacted to Naota when he knew she was female. Also, he got nosebleeds from seeing the female characters in bathing suits.

  36. OverlordZetta
    May 13, 2015 at 5:22 pm

    What really blows my mind is when you have people claiming to be Senran Kagura fans going around saying the fanservice is ruining the series.

    How far detached from reality does someone have to be to say this about a series that was inspired by a visionary’s desire to use the 3DS on life and hometown?

    That said, great piece. People really don’t get this kind of thing nearly enough and it’s a damn shame. Worse, this is probably going to be dismissed as pro-rapist propaganda by some people, and that’s just messed up.

  37. Dino
    May 13, 2015 at 5:22 pm

    It’s a worn out argument, but “if you don’t like it, then don’t play it” is always relevant for these kinds of things. That’s not even taking into account the cultural element in this particular case.

    It just comes across as lazy to say “I don’t like this, so therefore it’s bad and toxic” when looking into why these sorts of games continue to get published would make for far more compelling journalism.

  38. Dino
    May 13, 2015 at 5:24 pm

    I haven’t had the chance to check out the other Key VNs but they’re definitely on my radar. Clannad is right up there with Kara no Shoujo as my favourite VN(s), I still don’t know why I gravitate towards stories that make me feel down but I like them too much to stop.

  39. OverlordZetta
    May 13, 2015 at 5:25 pm

    Personally, I never saw Kanji as gay. Potentially bisexual, but I felt his issue, which potentially is more relevant in Japan at the moment, was dealing with gender stereotypes. His interests would “bring dishonor to his family and himself” and so on and so forth – not to mention bullying is a pretty big deal over there. The fact that he liked girly things, combined with society’s view of being a guy who liked girly things must make you gay, is what I feel led to his shadow taking the form it took and even potentially his interest in Naoto – he was beginning to fear himself being interested in men, and becoming self-conscious about something that may not have even been completely true out of fear of not being accepted… which ironically just made him even less accepted.

    Likewise, Naoto’s issues were similar, I thought, but that’s another story.

  40. Neojames82
    May 13, 2015 at 5:26 pm

    Well regardless of what he does, I never really cared for him. He’s just too obnoxious in most of his videos. I mean he does make some good points no doubt. If he just dropped all the “angry” shit he might be taken somewhat seriously.

    Of course it didn’t help that when he was trying to protest the SOPA bill he dressed up as Cobra Commander will he was in front of Capital Hill in DC….yeah…that will get you taken seriously.

  41. OverlordZetta
    May 13, 2015 at 5:27 pm

    I really wish I could understand why it’s a worn out argument.

    Demographics are a very real thing. People don’t always share the same tastes. I come across this all the time when I try to explain how ridiculously specific the big appeal of the Neptunia series is to people, but even when I’m also saying that a particular game might have been a poor showing of the series, because of how I talk about the series in general, it’s led to this kneejerk reaction of me just being a blind fanboy rather than someone just trying to explain something.

  42. Mr0303
    May 13, 2015 at 5:27 pm

    Seriously? Who the hell says that? Not anyone who has played the games.

    Call me a conspiracy theorist, but these could just be people trying to insert their own opinion by claiming they are part of the community. “Hey guys, I’ve been a Mortal Kombat fan for years, but this over the top violence is really ruining the series!”

  43. OverlordZetta
    May 13, 2015 at 5:30 pm

    In some cases i think it’s more of a console wars thing. I don’t see the drastic differences between the two as far as quality, but you have this weird subset of fans of the 3DS games that claim the ones on Vita have no value beyond their fanservice. I really don’t get it myself, considering the second 3DS game takes a lot of cues from the first Vita one, but whatever.

    Funny you bring up MK though, I actually haven’t seen much hate for it like there used to be. Weird, huh?

  44. TheCynicalReaper
    May 13, 2015 at 5:32 pm

    Agreed entirely

  45. Landale
    May 13, 2015 at 5:33 pm

    Since you bring her up; I do find it kind of hilarious, in a depressing way, how many people latch onto the surface of Naoto and Kanji without really paying attention to the development.

    Kanji has to be gay because there was that brief period of personal concern of his. Naoto has to be trans, because she was pretending to be a guy.
    Nevermind everything within all the games against those perceptions of the characters, these people insist that the undeveloped states are the absolute representation.

  46. TheCynicalReaper
    May 13, 2015 at 5:34 pm

    I’d sooner listen to what DSP has to say than Angry Joe.
    He’s shit (too). Always has been.
    But he’s a TGWTG member so what’s the surprise there?

  47. Dino
    May 13, 2015 at 5:34 pm

    I agree completely, my use of the “worn out” wording was more to point out that it’s a popular argument that gets used in all sorts of different contexts. I tried explaining the appeal of the Persona games to a friend recently and he just gave me a blank stare, he is likewise confused that I don’t share his enthusiasm for the Final Fantasy series.

    It’s just different strokes for different folks, there’s nothing wrong with that which is why it seems so redundant to criticise these things when there are some far more insidious things going on in the gaming industry.

  48. Mr0303
    May 13, 2015 at 5:35 pm

    That is pretty lame. If you like a series why not support all variations of it? I don’t have a 3DS, but the success of the SK games on there would be better for all.

    I do think that MK is not as controversial as it used to be because the “videogames cause violence” battle has been long won by logic. Sexism seems to be all the rage today.

  49. TheCynicalReaper
    May 13, 2015 at 5:37 pm

    He wasn’t gay. People forget that the shadows were exaggerations, hyperbole. Kanji was made to FEEL confused because of how everyone his age mocked and harassed him into questioning everything about himself just because of his family ties and specific preferences.

    It’s actually incredibly insulting for people to say Kanji was gay. People who do this are pretty much the exact same as those that made those characters question themselves in the first place. Might as well say Naoto was trans/actually a boy. They’re looking over the character instead of looking at who the character is and appreciating them for who they are.

  50. Nonscpo
    May 13, 2015 at 5:37 pm

    Great article Chris, good job, damn good job!

  51. OverlordZetta
    May 13, 2015 at 5:37 pm

    Honestly, I feel bad for that whole situation.

    Naoto’s story was a really good one, but from a Western perspective, the problem is really that it’s pretty dated – our culture’s been “fighting” this stuff for a longer time now. It doesn’t resonate with the youth here like it might to girls growing up in Japan right now. If you had put it out around the time of the women’s rights movement or even just a decade ago, I get the feeling people would have been able to see it for what it was a lot more clearly.

  52. Alistair
    May 13, 2015 at 5:42 pm

    I often thought what would happen if some-one kickstart a game that got overage oversex & over here women that shows off fully expose breasts & buttocks will the same crowd SJWs condemned that.

    But horny bunny these are women 18+ & over,.

    But no not really it doesn’t matter if the game contain legal age of women showing tits they will find a way to condemn that game.

    Such hypocrites.

  53. deadeye
    May 13, 2015 at 5:44 pm

    I don’t like fanservice games. Games that tend to be heavy on fanservice generally have it to compensate for rather mediocre gameplay. And I’m not really a visual novel kind of guy. Personally, I can’t justify spending money just to get a bit excited while playing a somewhat okay game.

    But I’m not offended by them. I just don’t play them. And honestly, if that sort of thing offends someones sensibilities, then I can totally understand that. But going on tirades about it is a bit much.

    And not all forms of fanservice is put down in the west. Bayonetta, for example, is acceptable for the most part. Some might not like the crazy sexualization, but plenty of reviewers praised it, and you can find discussion about it pretty much anywhere. The difference is, and this is one of those cultural differences, is just how young the characters are in many japanese games. Bayonetta is fully grown adult.

    It’s honestly not surprising that some people look at Senran Kagura or whatnot and go “what the fuck is this, this is for pedophiles”. And some games have girls even younger. And then some other games will do the whole bit where a character will have the body of a 9 year old, but they’re actually thousands of years old.

    It’s pretty easy to have a misconstrued view of why these games are made, what the developers intentions are, and who these games are for.

    Also, I have to vehemently disagree that adults are too “serious” to work well in fantasy stories. There are plenty of fantasy stories that work very well with main characters that are adults. Lord of the Rings, for example. Frodo is in his 50s at the start of the adventure. And look at how many comics that have adult main characters, and are very enjoyable.

  54. Lester Paredes
    Lester Paredes
    May 13, 2015 at 5:44 pm

    Bravo. Bravo. Bravo. I cannot agree with you more. Yes, there are games whose sole purpose is to titillate and arouse you, but to include any and every game that shows a nipple into that niche is wrong.

    “Titties, penises, and anuses are all bad. Chopping someone’s face off, chainsawing them in half, and impaling them on spikes is all good.”
    – The West

  55. Dino
    May 13, 2015 at 5:50 pm

    I think that being well-written will ultimately trump whatever a character’s age or background is. Some of the characters in games (including VNs) that I’ve been able to relate to the most have been different ages, races and genders to me but that didn’t reduce the impact of seeing that character go through the story in the slightest.

    That being said, I can understand why high school age characters are so common in Japanese media given that they consider that period of your life to be the “golden years”, it has a nostalgic quality that’s easy to tap into.

  56. Random45
    May 13, 2015 at 5:52 pm

    I agree with the article, but you’re just preaching to the choir here.

    Also I can’t speak for Kanon or Little Busters, but if it’s anything like Little Busters, then it’s significantly better with the awkward and intrusive sex scenes removed than with them in. I’d have picked better example than Key games, since they’re not really fan-service heavy.

  57. Batata Potato Patate
    Batata Potato Patate
    May 13, 2015 at 5:52 pm

    “How far detached from reality does someone have to be to say this about a series that was inspired by a visionary’s desire to use the 3DS on life and hometown?” Wait, what? When did he say that?

  58. Alistair
    May 13, 2015 at 5:53 pm

    I do not mind the Fanservice in games the fact is years & years & years we only had strong language & extreme violence.

    It been about 3 years or so that the west 1st ecchi game was corpse party for PSP & just over a year the 1st ecchi game to get censored MS for PS3 but it was monpiece that light the fuse for the censorship debate.

    & I like ecchi games it brings fresh of fresh air. ☺️

  59. OverlordZetta
    May 13, 2015 at 5:53 pm

    “Games that tend to be heavy on fanservice generally have it to compensate for rather mediocre gameplay.”
    People could say the same about violence. Heck, people are even starting to say the same about story now, if you can believe it.

    Certainly, some games that are heavy on it sometimes do so to compensate for it, but that goes for anything. Games are whole products, you can’t just say because it has one aspect, it shouldn’t be allowed to be a game. In all fairness, I think the argument could very easily made for cuteness and accessibility, that games that have a very cute-focused aesthetic tend to focus more on accessibility than they do actual quality.

    As for Bayonetta, while it does have some fanservice, I’d really find it difficult to compare it to the other games. The main difference honestly isn’t as much her age, I feel, but the art style. You can have characters in an anime art style that, in context, look obviously like what an adult would look like, but to a person of Western sensibilities, they see another preteen, even if it clearly isn’t after comparison to the art style’s rendition of preteens. Worse is when you have people taking SD/chibi art at face value, as if there isn’t an understanding that that kind of art isn’t an accurate representation of the character, and people actually think the characters look like little “sexualized babies” in those cases.

  60. Random45
    May 13, 2015 at 5:54 pm

    Fuck dude, I never played the game, but that arc in the Kanon anime was the only time I had to stop a show to go get some tissues. Her arc is heart-breakingly sad.

  61. OverlordZetta
    May 13, 2015 at 5:54 pm

    Games have been getting censored long before those. Bath scenes in RPGs have been being censored for over a decade, at the very least, if they’re not outright cut out.

  62. VirtualBoyColor
    May 13, 2015 at 5:54 pm

    I’m aware that not every game with fanservice is automatically good because of this, in fact it might as well be the opposite in many cases. But yes, I’m fed up with people who, to this day, are still uncapable of discerning the implications of cultural differences affecting the creative process of games.

    Being constantly obsessed with whether there are upskirts of “aggressive” cleavage in a game and deeming the “offenders” as “problematic” “toxic” or other adjectives is actually demeaning to the pictures characters in the full context of a fictional work. Not only they effectively objectify characters without bothering to know more about them, they also show a general anti-Japan sentiment that might as well be a sign of racism (because let’s face it, it’s evident that the problem is usually not with the depiction, but with the fact that it comes from the east; I’ve seen cases where some of the apparently sex-negative detractors of japanese fanservice do the exact opposite when western artists or developers do the exact same thing).

    Nice article Chris, I hope eventually more people take their time to properly analyze works in their proper context, both in-game and the cultural aspects that influence them, before starting outrage campaigns against the artistic freedom of game creators.

  63. JackDandy
    May 13, 2015 at 5:56 pm

    “Critics who treat ‘adult’ as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.”
    ― C.S. Lewis

    This about sums up the problem of every single person who cries about fanservice being “for teenagers” or some shit

  64. Nani Sore
    Nani Sore
    May 13, 2015 at 5:58 pm

    While I see from where you are coming from…I honeslty feel that fanservice similar to violence can be the essence of a game.

    Take Mortal Kombat and Dead or Alive for example remove the ultraviolence or the heavy fanservice and you would rob the game of its identity. (And pretty much outrage its actual fanbase)

    This isn´t so much about a game being good or bad but about the artistic vision and the people that actually matter…the fans.

  65. Random45
    May 13, 2015 at 6:00 pm

    He didn’t defend her, he called out the people who were personally attacking her and sending in death threats rather than focusing on her work. I hope you can agree that things like that are out of line.

  66. Turt
    May 13, 2015 at 6:01 pm

    This is a nice article and all but it still sounds like a “BUT” sort of excuse for fanservice.

    As if it needed to be justified, excused, or somehow forgiven for existing.
    It doesn’t.

    Fanservice is objectively not bad.
    There’s nothing bad that can be attributed to it in the same way many vices have negative aspects on health or public safety such as guns or alcohol.
    Fanservice is as harmless and not bad as it gets.
    So if it is not bad, that’s it, it isn’t bad.
    But what is it?
    It can be good or bad subjectively, depending on who you ask, depending on the sort of fanservice, but that’s all the result of human free will and all of us being unique individuals with different likes and dislikes.

    That means it can be GOOD to some people, and as games are a creative medium with a lot of different people enjoying them it’s up to everyone to decide what to like or dislike.

    Come on the name itself tells us what it is, it is a service for the fans, it’s for them to enjoy, simply for the fact that it exists, it might not be for everyone, but it is for those that enjoy it.

    Think of fanservice as achievements.
    Not everyone cares about it, not everyone wants to touch them, but there’s people that do and they are harmless so the mature thing to do is ignore them if you don’t like them and enjoy them if you do.
    And be mature and let the people that do enjoy it enjoy it in peace.

    I like fanservice. I like when games have it, I like enjoying it, I like discussing it and hyping it up.

  67. NickyD
    May 13, 2015 at 6:02 pm

    I completely support this article, even if it’s primarily because I found Dungeon Travelers 2 to be one of the best crawlers I’ve ever played. The mechanics are damn solid and easy to learn, but difficult to master.

  68. Random45
    May 13, 2015 at 6:04 pm

    I want to beg people in the comments to stop using the term ‘Social Justice Warrior’. It’s a ridiculously stupid term that immediately undermines your argument to most people, regardless of whether you have a point or not.

  69. Zizal
    May 13, 2015 at 6:08 pm

    After the release of senran kagura 2. I was like the fucker tataki! when it comes to the releases on sony’s consoles he throw all kind of cool fanservice and new characters but he give us some bare bones for the main series. I’m done with the series. The only way of going back to the series is by showing actual nudity. I have shinovi versus but I didn’t play it yet.

  70. Requiemsvoid
    May 13, 2015 at 6:12 pm

    Nice article +1

    *Personally tho, I’m surprised the article didn’t bring up “Rape-lay”.

    For those that don’t know, it was the game in the late 90’s that
    feminists, politicians, the media and religious people were all freaking
    out about.

    The funny thing was, when reporters would try to play the “offended”
    card when interviewing actual Japanese people (Native to japan). They
    would just look at the interviewer and scoff at them, by saying “it’s
    just fantasy”.

    When pressed on the issue, the Japanese person would either walk away or ask “why do Americans worry about fantasy so much?”.

    Something to know about Japan, they see people that are easily offended as children, incapable of being taken seriously.

  71. Zizal
    May 13, 2015 at 6:12 pm

    You would be surprised a lot of people don’t buy some games they like because it’s not on their favorite system. I make this claim by looking at senran kagura series sales between the 3ds , the vita and some other niche games.

  72. Dino
    May 13, 2015 at 6:13 pm

    Are you confusing Night Trap with RapeLay?

  73. Requiemsvoid
    May 13, 2015 at 6:15 pm

    Nope, Night Trap wasn’t released in Japan.

  74. Zizal
    May 13, 2015 at 6:17 pm

    The doujin scene is filled with rape, lolicon, bistality and other shit but I don’t see much outrage. I feel like we are living in a different world. Do they get offended over games that get official release or something.

  75. Dino
    May 13, 2015 at 6:20 pm

    Ah, well RapeLay wasn’t released until the mid-2000s but it certainly caused a stir. It’s definitely not to my tastes but there was an element of hypocrisy to the criticism of it when games featuring all manner of graphic violence went by relatively unnoticed.

  76. Requiemsvoid
    May 13, 2015 at 6:27 pm

    Indeed, it’s the reason I even bothered to play it tbh.
    *Was wondering what made it so bad.

    Funny enough, after like 20-30 mins of playing. The “shock value” kinda faded and I started grinding through each characters scenarios to unlocked all the positions/attacks/outfits.

    After which, I went back to playing some Elder Scrolls.. *(wasn’t a fan of the whole mindbreak thing in Rapelay).

  77. MaidKillua
    May 13, 2015 at 6:30 pm

    Personally can’t stand fanservice of any degree and generally won’t touch anything with any level of sexual content in it unless it’s widely regarded to be a masterpiece (only things I’ve ever made it through with sexual content in are the manga for Berserk and Oyasumi Punpun), but the idea of people claiming things they dislike to be objectively bad has always baffled me. Like, surely, if even a SINGLE person likes something, it by definition cannot be objectively bad because for that to be the case, it being bad would have to be universal???

  78. Requiemsvoid
    May 13, 2015 at 6:30 pm

    I mean, no one really cared about the Manga versions of Pokemon. The religious people were solely focused on the games/tv show.

  79. Zizal
    May 13, 2015 at 6:31 pm

    No they shouldn’t. Using labels is a strong weapon. Just like the add phobic to some words until they get into the mainstream to let people feel guilty. You have been here for awhile saying how you are OK with censorship and trying to make us accept it it by pretending of being part of niche gaming fans and wanting to destroy us inside out.

  80. Chris Gregoria
    Chris Gregoria
    May 13, 2015 at 6:40 pm

    Well, the point I wanted to make was more that I’m tired of people saying “This game has fanservice, therefore it is bad.”

  81. Holyfox25
    May 13, 2015 at 6:43 pm

    “Something to know about Japan, they see people that are easily offended as children, incapable of being taken seriously.”

    I wish the Western world would follow this philosophy. Honesty, it would solve most problems before they began.

    Funny thing about Rape-lay: it was released in 2006, but didn’t cause controversy till 2009.Talk about a slow news day.

  82. Dewey Defeats Truman
    Dewey Defeats Truman
    May 13, 2015 at 6:44 pm

    I hate fanservice in my videogames a lot of the time, but it’s not because I find it offensive. I just think that, in many cases, it feels like pandering and a lame way to try to drive more sales. At the absolute worst, it’s all the game/series has going for it (I’d argue this for Neptunia personally.) It’s not just sexual fanservice either, I couldn’t get more than a few episodes into that Sega Hard Girls show because I realized early on it was mostly just going to consist of small references and inside jokes and while I love Sega, I’d want something with a little more substance than that.

    All of that said, I’m not against it as a concept and I’m not going to instantly say something is worthless trash or, even worse, “problematic” (aka “I just want an excuse to be upset”) because it features fanservice. I may think the Neptunia series is trash, but it has a right to exist. People do enjoy it (for reasons I’ll never get) and as long as those people enjoy it, it has a purpose.

    Also I’m sure I’ve said this before but when someone says that the industry needs to grow up and in the same breath tries to force it to change into something it simply isn’t, I have to wonder if they are even serious. Video games will never be a respected medium as long as the fanbase for them is ashamed of their hobby. I mean, the average awful jumpscare-infused “horror” movie that comes out every summer doesn’t discredit Citizen Kane from being a classic, so why should something like Monster Monpiece discredit Ico or Super Mario 64 or Vib Ribbon?

  83. Pyrotek85
    May 13, 2015 at 6:46 pm

    I don’t really see what the deal is with not wanting to buy a different console, unless your budget is really tight. Don’t most people spend several times or more the cost of the system on games? Usually the console’s price will be dwarfed by the value of the games you’ve bought by the end of the system’s life.

    Ultimately, I buy systems for the games, not the other way around. I don’t have any special loyalty or hatred for any console either. I figure I’d only be spiting myself if I did, since I’m the one to miss out on games that I’d enjoy.

  84. Dewey Defeats Truman
    Dewey Defeats Truman
    May 13, 2015 at 6:47 pm

    Kanji isn’t gay though.

    But yeah I don’t get why people act like just saying a character is gay suddenly makes the game better. Bill from The Last of Us was gay, and it was written into the story in a well done way. He is a good example of a gay character from a modern western game. That one guy from Borderlands 2 that had an audio bug that made him hit on males the same way he was supposed to hit on females just got called bi by someone who worked on the game when people asked. That’s not a good example of a gay character. That’s just being lazy about fixing bugs and using it as an excuse to push an agenda.

  85. Holyfox25
    May 13, 2015 at 6:50 pm

    I don’t agree with Random45 on many things, including what you are responding to, but I think that is a bit over the top to accuse him/her of that.

  86. Dewey Defeats Truman
    Dewey Defeats Truman
    May 13, 2015 at 6:50 pm

    I think there was a cut romance option with Yosuke in the original game even but I’m not 100% sure on that.

  87. Azure
    May 13, 2015 at 6:51 pm

    Though for the record the creators will not confirm or deny what Kanji is. Which is what it should be for all characters in all forms of media.

  88. Zizal
    May 13, 2015 at 6:56 pm

    Fanboys exist in real life like in phones market or football and you can see them in gaming forums port begging. I agree with you it’s not worth it but keep in mind it’s not about money like a lot of people think. I saw some rich die hard fanboys. I also buy system for games I want like you and I think it’s the smartest option to not regret your purchases later.

  89. OverlordZetta
    May 13, 2015 at 6:57 pm

    That brings up the question of what qualifies as substance. To some, references can be just as much substance as anything else. Furthermore, the idea that fanservice is bad because it “panders” is problematic because everything panders in some way, when you get down to it. It appeals to its target audience or to the people who enjoy that sort of thing – is that truly such a crime? The same could be said of Mortal Kombat with its violence or even Disney with its family friendly visuals. Why is “pandering” such a bad thing to so many people? The way “pandering” is used as if being appealing to certain tastes rather than everyone is a mindset we would be better off leaving behind as soon as we can.

    As an aside, personally, I find it baffling how anyone could think Neptunia only has fanservice going for it when it’s relatively tame compared to most things out there. I’ve written at length on other sites about it, but Neptunia’s appeal to many comes more from the character interactions and the references. That may not be the sort of thing you’re into, but others do like it, and CH actually puts a ridiculous amount of effort into some really weird things that most people don’t even pay mind to when you read what people think about the series online.

    That said, I really don’t see why people focus so much on a series like Neptunia in the first place. Despite all the attention critics like to give it, it’s… kind of ridiculous niche. In Japan and also here. Maybe it’s because it sees a lot of releases, but the fact is it’s not like we’re talking about the Call of Duty of JRPGs or anything. It has a relatively small fanbase that just happens to be fairly supportive, though how long that will last in the West with the localization quality of the series continuing to go into the toilet is anyone’s guess.

  90. Steven Sanchez
    Steven Sanchez
    May 13, 2015 at 6:58 pm

    Preach on brother I love my fan service :)

  91. OverlordZetta
    May 13, 2015 at 6:58 pm

    To be fair, in the case of Senran Kagura, there are some other factors to consider.

    Senran Kagura 2 was over priced and a big departure from both the first 3DS game as well as the first Vita game. Meanwhile, the first Vita game launched when the anime was airing and right when the Vita had a price drop in Japan. It was natural it would get a lot of sales. The new one didn’t fare as well, and neither did the cooking game. I don’t think it has nearly as much to do with console warring as people think and just what people want.

  92. OverlordZetta
    May 13, 2015 at 7:00 pm

    That’s not going to happen.

    Senran Kagura 2 added a lot of the features from SV anyway. SK2 was a sequel to SKB, not SKSV. Can’t think of it like that.

  93. lpchaim
    May 13, 2015 at 7:01 pm

    Yep, as a long time GAF lurker, this whole thing rubbed me the wrong way. As much as I respect it and enjoy reading many of the discussions that spring up there, it seems something just snaps in most people’s heads when some form of media involves sexuality as a major facet, even more so when it’s from the ‘alien’ land known as Japan. I remember when a mod mockingly avatar-quoted a lot of people with anime avatars in one of that threads, now that was disgusting.
    GAF’s behavior is just a symptom though, of the ‘sex-prudishness’ of american society in general. It’s engraved quite deep in people too, I’d say.

  94. OverlordZetta
    May 13, 2015 at 7:03 pm

    Another point to consider about the cultural differences aspect is that fanservice is just seen as a joke a lot of the time. You still have your mega otaku that just want the nudity, but think back to stuff like Dragonball or even just the Senran Kagura series. Sex can be treated as a joke, and often is, and that’s something way too many Westerners do not understand at all, instead choosing to see the absolute worst possible idea.

    It’s even worse when Japan’s whole “kawaii” thing clashes with it and you get SD characters that have fanservice too. People in the West see SD characters with jiggle physics as stuff for mega perverted pedophiles, whereas the idea was likely just more meant to be cute and keeping the spirit of the original character.

  95. Fenrir007
    May 13, 2015 at 7:07 pm

    I have nothing constructive to add, I just agree 100% with this.

    One thing I seem to notice is that american society in general is spearheading the fanservice scare, and Europe in general seems to be a lot more relaxed on it (save for a few places, like England – perhaps their shared ancestry makes americans and the british equally prude). Eastern europeans, for instance, seem to not give much of a fuck to this commotion.

    Sadly, burguerland remains the loudest player in this.

  96. Raspberry
    May 13, 2015 at 7:21 pm

    Playing Moe Chronicle right now and absolutely loving it! If people have problem with that or think that somehow this game will turn me in to a sexist, well they can go screw themselves. I will continue to play fanservice games as long as it’s fun to me.

  97. Dewey Defeats Truman
    Dewey Defeats Truman
    May 13, 2015 at 7:21 pm

    I’ll admit it mostly boils down to “I don’t like thing” and it’s a pretty bad argument for or against something, and I shouldn’t have used it. That said what I am trying to say is I think it’s bad when a game (or anything) “feels” like it’s pandering to me. It’s hard to explain what I really mean I guess, but it’s kind of like when you see a reference to a show or game or meme or whatever in media. Sometimes it can fit into the sentence or not really stand out because of the context, and there it’s fine. But when I see an “US GAMERS HUH?” moment I just feel like it’s trying too hard to get me to like it through something that has nothing to do with the actual quality of the product.

  98. lpchaim
    May 13, 2015 at 7:24 pm

    I never really got the impression people thought of Neptunia as exploitative pandering. Huh. If you’re curious, I like the series mainly because of the fun dialogue and character interactions, even because most of the media references are either dead obvious or ridiculously specific (I distinctly remember reading on how the Horsebird enemies stem from a japanese mistranslation involving Chocobos, or something). I also find the battle system fun, even if repetitive, as Victory and the Re;Birth games all have the same one apart from some small differences. I also love the art and the ‘cute girls being cute’ aspect of it, and I’m fully aware that this sounds really weird to a lot of people.
    As for the shame thing, I guess it mainly comes from america’s view on sexually suggestive media; it’s not publicily accepted to have explicitly secual content on display virtually anywhere. It’s really hard to get behind that mindset.

  99. Wrathful
    May 13, 2015 at 7:30 pm

    People seem to be way too eager in finding something offensive. I think Social media made it really easy for them to express their insipid opinions.

  100. Kengofu
    May 13, 2015 at 7:31 pm

    I think this may be my new site of choice. If you look at the comments on Siliconera every time there’s an attractive woman showing skin, they get so up their own asses about it like it fucking matters. These are fictional goddamn characters, get over it.

  101. OverlordZetta
    May 13, 2015 at 7:33 pm

    He as in Senran Kagura’s creator? It’s pretty well known the series was inspired because he wanted to see big boobs in 3D. He probably would have made the series on the DS if someone hadn’t beaten him to the punch on a touch screen groping game.

  102. deadeye
    May 13, 2015 at 7:33 pm

    I’m mostly referring to fanservice when talking about a characters age.

    Fanservice or nude scenes of a character that’s, say, 25? Totally fine. Some might not like it, but it will hardly be a topic of controversy.

    Those same scenes with a character that’s 15 or 16? Doesn’t exactly go over well here. At the very least, causes some raised eyebrows.

  103. lpchaim
    May 13, 2015 at 7:34 pm

    This is also important. The term pandering has gained a overwhelmingly negative connotation because of the mindset you mentioned, and it’s worth of discussion.
    And yes, Neptunia is a niche inside of some more niches as it
    stands. I guess it’s tossed around so much because the first game got a lot of exposure when it came out and the series became something of a poster-boy for people outside of their target audience, much like Senran Kagura.

  104. OverlordZetta
    May 13, 2015 at 7:36 pm

    That’s what’s weird, though. For all the flipping out people are doing about cartoon images that, 9 out of 10 times barely even resemble a “real” looking human in the first place, you have actual teenagers and even kids all over TV in positions that are often far worse than the ones portrayed in these fanservice games.

    I can’t put a name on it, and I don’t want to jump right to xenophobia or cultural ignorance, but I don’t know.

  105. YukiTron
    May 13, 2015 at 7:48 pm

    I was on the bus when I saw 0 comments. 1 hour later, I’m back home and I see over 100 lol.

    Whatever I have to say has already been said by either Chris or the community. However, the one thing I wanna point out, is that if you’re a grown-ass adult writing a full-fledged article about why fan service is wrong, you are downright ignorant.

    and no, I’m not directing that towards a website that rhymes with Polygon. I mean- ah fuck

  106. lpchaim
    May 13, 2015 at 7:51 pm

    That was a good read, reminds me of why I keep coming back here. It’s only of the few places where I don’t feel very… inhibited, so to speak. America’s stance on sexuality is really toxic, and also very deeply ingrained on people… even myself, to some degree. Hard to change that.
    Just the other day I had a friend of mine looking through my games and asking me if I had a thing for ‘little girls’ (It was triggered by Neptunia Re;Birth 1 and 2, btw; Not sure if Etrian Odyssey IV or Senran Kagura Shinovi Versus had some part on it…); I don’t even remember what I told him. This kind of thinking really leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

  107. lpchaim
    May 13, 2015 at 7:56 pm

    Whoa, first time I hear of that. Brb, googling this. Will drop a link if anything substantial comes up.

  108. Turt
    May 13, 2015 at 7:58 pm

    Sorry if it sounded like I was dissing on that, I got the point and it’s good. We’re all tired of that really.

    All I’m trying to say is that it still felt like arguing on “their” terms, trying to find reasons why it’s not so bad so it should be excuse.
    And the reality is that they haven’t managed to show why it is supposed to be bad in the first place.
    The burden of proof really lies on those that treat fanservice as an unholy heresy and ignoring that fact implies accepting some of their claims that it is bad and needs redemption when it fact, it did nothing wrong.

  109. OverlordZetta
    May 13, 2015 at 8:00 pm

    Personally, I do honestly think it’s fair to be offended by things. It’s what you do with that offense that makes the difference.

    If it’s a real life offense, raise the roof. People, no matter what they believe, should be able to live their lives without bullshit of any kind coming their way unjustly. On the other hand, if we’re talking a game? That person is perfectly capable of not buying the game, of looking at a different game, and moving on with their life, and that’s all they should do.

  110. OverlordZetta
    May 13, 2015 at 8:04 pm

    You’d be surprised. I frequent another site that can’t even discuss Compile Heart without throwing around how much fanservice the games have in them. I don’t mind if there actually is a lot of fanservice – I might not agree, but when you’re talking about Neptunia as if it’s got content that rivals Senran Kagura, it just comes off as misinformed or out of touch.

  111. OverlordZetta
    May 13, 2015 at 8:06 pm

    I disagree with this. There’s nothing wrong with it, no, but it’s important to try to understand why things are the way they are, and the cultural differences (as well as often just differences in demographics and tastes, sometimes brought on by those differences in culture) between the West and East are a big factor.

  112. Turt
    May 13, 2015 at 8:10 pm

    “You don’t call the ones like ‘art’ and the ones you don’t like ‘not art’.”

    As ridiculous as it may be they have done that in the past to new movements of art that differed from the norm.
    They still do.

  113. Jay Embee
    Jay Embee
    May 13, 2015 at 8:12 pm

    The approach of applying cultural values of one country to a work made in another country is always going to be the silliest thing. There’s doing it to get another perspective, and then there’s not understanding that things could just simply be *different* in the other country. Some people need to try and think about that.

  114. lpchaim
    May 13, 2015 at 8:14 pm

    It really does, I tend to assume for the sake of my own sanity that someone who says that with a seemingly straight face hasn’t played the games at all.
    Now, if just the term ‘fanservice’ hadn’t largely morphed to stand for sexual pandering, I guess I could kind of see a point in there somewhere.

  115. Pyrotek85
    May 13, 2015 at 8:18 pm

    Oh I know they do, I just think it’s silly of them. If anything art is supposed to push the boundaries of expression, and if they’re offended by it then that’s all the more reason they should defend it, if they believe in the sanctity of free speech that is.

  116. Pyrotek85
    May 13, 2015 at 8:21 pm

    Yeah I forget how I stumbled upon this site but I like that they’re not afraid to cover all manner of games, not just those that are main stream and politically correct.

  117. Pyrotek85
    May 13, 2015 at 8:25 pm

    If anything it’s more of a parody of sexual fanservice, it doesn’t take itself seriously. They’re missing the whole point of the games.

  118. lpchaim
    May 13, 2015 at 8:26 pm

    Thank you, really appreciated. That’s mighty interesting.

  119. Pyrotek85
    May 13, 2015 at 8:27 pm

    It’s the same with tropes, people think they’re in an inherently bad thing and they’re not.

    It’s like some people just learned a new buzzword but don’t really know what it means.

  120. lpchaim
    May 13, 2015 at 8:33 pm

    As a faithful tvtropes denizen, I’m all too aware of this haha
    Seriously though, that’s quite an apt comparison.

  121. lpchaim
    May 13, 2015 at 8:35 pm

    You’re basically differentiating normal and exploitative pandering and saying the latter feels wrong to you, from what I gathered. Is that the general idea?
    Then again, I suppose that circles back to the discussion of where one draws the line and I don’t know what to add to that.

  122. Pyrotek85
    May 13, 2015 at 8:35 pm

    Just earlier today someone commented on siliconera about how this new character suffers from a trope, but neglected to say which trope and why it’s bad. It just comes off as laziness to me, no one wants to think for themselves and are just parroting what they hear.

  123. Mr0303
    May 13, 2015 at 8:40 pm

    She is a professional victim. Her comments are disabled on all her videos. She feeds on outrage. So what he called out are trolls sending death threats. Why? Because she is a woman? Everyone who is a tad bit famous gets death threats. Did he defend Jack Thompson when he got death threats?

    And I quote:

    “It is 100% true that 4chan attacked her, it is 100% true that there are YouTube personalities attacking her daily.” Really, now? 100%? Daily attacks? Ok.

    “…reaction to it by many butthurt manchildren and actual clueless little boys who think this woman is out to take their porn and video games!” – Strawman at its finest.

    He then proceeded to regurgitate her points about the damsels in distress and overly sexualised women(much like the topic at hand).

    After that he said that no one is out there to take away the “male power fantasies”. We need to just look at the recent take down of GTA V from stores in Australia orchestrated by feminists to see how wrong that is.

    At the end he pulls another strawman and says that anybody who disagrees with feminism doesn’t care about the women in their life.

    All of the above was not an appeal to his fans to stop the death threats. It was not constructive criticism of her work. It was full on white knighting because she is a woman.

  124. Batata Potato Patate
    Batata Potato Patate
    May 13, 2015 at 8:46 pm

    I knew that. I mean, the ‘on life and hometown’ thing.

  125. dsadsada
    May 13, 2015 at 8:54 pm

    “if they believe in the sanctity of free speech that is”

  126. Zizal
    May 13, 2015 at 9:09 pm

    People also forget that making original personality that no one did before is a hard job or you can make a new personality but it won’t be compatible with the game direction.

  127. Dewey Defeats Truman
    Dewey Defeats Truman
    May 13, 2015 at 9:13 pm

    I guess? I’ll admit I’m bad at describing what i mean, especially with things like this. It’s one of those “I know it when I see it” things, which is never useful for trying to talk about why something is good or bad in any way.

  128. Fenrir7
    May 13, 2015 at 9:15 pm

    Why don’t the ‘tards at polygon and kotaku realize that these types of games obviously aren’t made for them? They preach exclusivity non stop at the expense of people who actually like to play games such as these. There is obviously a market for it. I’m getting real sick of the ben kucheras and the leigh alexanders of the world projecting their insecurities onto us when all we want to do is just game. These types of games aren’t going anywhere. Deal with it, bitches.

  129. dsadsada
    May 13, 2015 at 9:15 pm

    I’ll stop calling these types of immature people SJWs when they stop referring to people like me with any of the various -isms.

  130. Shippoyasha
    May 13, 2015 at 9:19 pm

    Great article! As it stands, console fanservice games are already heavily censored to a point where Japanese games never get sex scenes so I already think it is too harsh against sexual games to begin with.

    Also, Japanese media has never shied away from sexual entertainment for teens and young adults and it is usually so fluffy and comedic, it definitely doesn’t deserve the kind of ire they get.

    Thirdly, it strikes me as funny that fanservice has suddenly become such a major issue when games had them for decades. It coincides way too well with SJWS coming out the woodwork in 2013 basically citing a manifesto to wage war against artists/game creators who enjoy making sexual media to the fans who enjoy them.

    I get that sexual media isn’t to everyone’s tastes. However, the way it has come under attack the past few years looks like a willful attack on the fans and creators.

  131. James Reilly
    James Reilly
    May 13, 2015 at 9:20 pm

    This was refreshing to read after unfortunately stumbling onto the Polygon article. Also daily reminder Neogaf has gone to shit.

  132. lpchaim
    May 13, 2015 at 9:22 pm

    Not pulling your leg or anything, I just wanted to make sure I understood your thoughts on this. Thank you for bringing about sensible discussion, that’s what I came here for after all.

  133. Pyrotek85
    May 13, 2015 at 9:22 pm

    It’s not just difficult, but nigh impossible with the nearly limitless amount of books, games and movies in existence now. You can apply a number of tropes to anything, but that alone doesn’t make it bad.

    And you’re right, certain character archetypes are used often because they work and they’re popular with the target audience. It’s like what was being said about pandering, it’s no surprise that they’re making content geared toward a particular audience, that’s how you sell the damn thing lol.

  134. awvnx
    May 13, 2015 at 9:24 pm

    I’d like to note that Dungeon Travelers 2 is now #1 topselling/preorder Vita game on Amazon (although the Vita section is fairly quiet). This puts it WAY above another dungeon crawler Operation Abyss (which is #40 or so) which is releasing earlier and is an equally hyped game. Before this Polygon article, the game was probably under #10 – #20.

  135. jinter
    May 13, 2015 at 9:28 pm

    when things like this happen, I start to love my country more and more, I will never understand the problem US have with fanservice

  136. Shippoyasha
    May 13, 2015 at 9:29 pm

    If people did 5 minutes of research, they would know porn games aren’t sold alongside family friendly titles in Japan. Just shows a lot of their journalistic integrity.

  137. Sylveria Shini
    Sylveria Shini
    May 13, 2015 at 9:32 pm

    Gotta love Polygon Streisand Effecting everything they touch in to better sales.

  138. Pyrotek85
    May 13, 2015 at 9:34 pm

    And along the same lines, not all games are for kids in the first place. It’s not strictly a child’s pastime, but some people still cling to that notion. Most especially people who don’t play them.

  139. Pyrotek85
    May 13, 2015 at 9:38 pm

    You got me, and it’s not like we don’t produce and consume craploads of porn either, or sexualize everything in the mainstream (but not enough to be considered explicit). It’s a crazy mix of obsession and shame surrounding it, but violence is glorified wholeheartedly.

  140. jinter
    May 13, 2015 at 9:47 pm

    “but violence is glorified wholeheartedly”
    that is horrible, man. Well I guess people have the right to like whatever they want

  141. Tromboner
    May 13, 2015 at 9:50 pm

    I think it’s more concern over the VS series sacrificing quality for quantity, but that’s just my view on it. I felt the girls’ stories were of more hit or miss quality in SV than they were in Burst. I like both games, but I’m less excited to play EV than SK2 for that reason. I worry that too many characters will spread it too thin, resulting in not enough face time for each.

  142. Pyrotek85
    May 13, 2015 at 9:52 pm

    It’s true, just look at American made movies, tv, or videogames. Now granted I don’t think it’s all bad, but I think it’s hypocritical to complain about sexual content (usually pretty tame at that) when the violence can be rather gratuitous and there’s nary a peep about it.

  143. Tromboner
    May 13, 2015 at 9:53 pm

    Great article. The West, particularly the US, still has deeply puritanical attitudes about sex and teenage romance. Whenever I see someone outraged over a “sexy” or “attractive” teen game character, I have to wonder, don’t they remember being a teenager? Of having confusing sexual urges, or not knowing why you felt how you did? But instead we shun those impulses; we don’t celebrate youth’s vitality in every dimension.

    For gaming to “grow up” (already a stupid idea) it needs to deal with games on their own terms and allow diversity of all types, not just the ones of which a certain social clique approve.

  144. jinter
    May 13, 2015 at 9:56 pm

    Yeah, the Saw movies are a pretty good example of that

  145. Pyrotek85
    May 13, 2015 at 9:59 pm

    I think part of it is the pedophile panic that some circles of people are having. They’re so virulently against anything remotely sexual or romantic towards someone under 18 (not even prepubescent, as in actual pedophilia) because they’re afraid of being labeled as one.

    And it’s nearly always in context of fictional characters, who can’t be harmed or exploited in the first place. It’s ridiculous.

  146. Tromboner
    May 13, 2015 at 10:04 pm

    I think it’s borderline hilarious that someone would call me a pedophile based on my taste in videogames completely divorced from my actions in real life. But because I liked Dead or Alive, Recettear, Senran Kagura, Neptunia, or whatever other game, I’m clearly a horrible monster.

    It would be like calling me a pedophile because I’ve read and enjoyed Lolita. It’s absurd and stupid, but given that the people who level these absurd appellations are ignorant, racist, small-minded idiots (religious conservatives or SJWs, take your pick), it’s made funny to me. Think of the (digital) children!

  147. Pyrotek85
    May 13, 2015 at 10:12 pm

    It’s a bit ironic isn’t, they think we’re the ones who can’t tell what’s real, and how we’re all going to start acting out the horrible games we’ve been playing, but that itself is a delusional notion. They’re the ones living in some fantasy world, not us. We know that a game is a game.

  148. Tromboner
    May 13, 2015 at 10:16 pm

    Not only that, but they assume that because you consume some fiction that you agree with it, or that its subject matter is somehow amenable to you. What if I’ve read something to be challenged? Or if I played a game from a genre I don’t know much about in order to broaden my horizons? I played a VN last month because I didn’t have much experience with those as a genre, and I enjoyed it, so now I plan to step further out of my comfort zone and try an otome VN. I’m not the game’s target audience, but I want to understand them better.

    Then again, these sorts of critical faculties seem to be far beyond someone who can call a fan of Dead or Alive a pedophile because Kasumi is 16. Seriously, Dead or Alive Dimensions was banned in Sweden for that reason.

  149. Psichaos
    May 13, 2015 at 10:24 pm

    I’ve said it once before, but I find it quite ironic that so-called “progressives” have held onto the old-timey western religious doctrine that sexuality is a sin. They rag on Christians for their belief that homosexuality is a sin, but failed to realize that in Christianity, all sex is a sin if it isn’t for the sake of procreation. It’s funny in a sad way that for all their moaning about Christian beliefs on homosexuality, they in turn are pushing for heterosexuality to be an even greater sin. Any truly progressive thinker would realize that this whole “sex is evil” thing is all a crock of shit, and instead embrace sexuality as a whole as opposed to be ashamed by it.

  150. perfectchaos83
    May 13, 2015 at 10:25 pm

    Only problem with the article is that, while the Japanese national age of consent is 13, nearly every prefecture has it set at 16 or something. Rural areas may be different, however. Just a little correction.

  151. Pyrotek85
    May 13, 2015 at 10:25 pm

    You’re right, their thinking is too shallow, and they’re far too concerned about what other people might think of them that they don’t even want to try and learn about different genres or cultures. They act like it’s going to brainwash you.

    But it’s funny you mentioned otome games. I was actually planning to play Sweet Fuse soon, as it’s one of the few they actually localized and have heard that it’s very good. But maybe I shouldn’t or it’ll turn me gay or something =P

  152. Mr.Calavera
    May 13, 2015 at 10:26 pm

    I agreed, I hate the double standard the west have over sex and violence.

  153. OverlordZetta
    May 13, 2015 at 10:30 pm

    I don’t think quantity and quality are mutually exclusive, and what’s more, quality is fairly subjective anyway.

    Despite the concerns people raise, it’s not like the first game set the standard for face time particularly high to begin with. The fact is SKSV actually did a much better job of dividing it than SKB did, and it has twice the roster. Hanzo’s story in SKB barely managed to focus on two of five characters, whereas each story in SKSV gives each character a decent amount of time and adds to it with the Girls Heart sections.

    In SKB, you’re just shit out of luck if you wanted meaningful focus on Ikaruga or Yagyu. In SKSV, Ikaruga is tied to the stories of two characters and Yagyu interacts with far more than she does in SKB. SK2 looks like it will be good, but judging on the first two games in each series, then personally I would go for EV if I wanted a quality SK game, regardless of the quantity issue.

  154. Tromboner
    May 13, 2015 at 10:31 pm

    I’m trying to hunt down the Hakuoki game on the 3DS myself, since it got a nice limited edition physical release here, and I’ve always liked the Shinsengumi setting. Meanwhile, “progressives” soapbox about how we’re pissbabies for liking Japanese games.

  155. OverlordZetta
    May 13, 2015 at 10:33 pm

    The series came to be because he wanted to see breasts using the 3DS and its 3D features. Breasts are the “life” in the life and hometown catchphrase he coined.

  156. Pyrotek85
    May 13, 2015 at 10:34 pm

    Because the games are from Japan, or because of the content? I’d try a Western otome game too lol

  157. Tromboner
    May 13, 2015 at 10:35 pm

    Both, probably. I’d be down to try a Western VN or otome game that doesn’t just coattail Japanese style art.

  158. awvnx
    May 13, 2015 at 10:49 pm

    So many bans on these threads.

  159. Pyrotek85
    May 13, 2015 at 10:55 pm

    Initially it had always sounded to me like it was it a great forum that frequently had insider info, but lately all I hear is how petty many of the mods and users are.

    Do they just hate discussions that are the least bit controversial or what?

  160. Omnistrand
    May 13, 2015 at 11:06 pm

    Ahh, reminds me of this picture.

    Remember kids, when Japan does it it’s creepy pandering!

  161. Nani Sore
    Nani Sore
    May 13, 2015 at 11:17 pm

    Let me put it this way …I can´t say to many good things about neogaf.

  162. Omnistrand
    May 13, 2015 at 11:25 pm

    Stick around, the site’s got a culture of anti-censorship and free speech, “I don’t agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it” and all that jazz. That and appreciating a healthy dose of fanservice.

  163. dsadsada
    May 13, 2015 at 11:32 pm

    From what I understand, that used to be true once upon a time.

    But even back then, if you had insider info they reported on that turned out to either be slightly false, or was changed without your knowledge, they will ruin your life repeatedly even when you try cutting all ties to the videogame industry.

  164. Pyrotek85
    May 13, 2015 at 11:34 pm

    Damn, what a bunch of petulant children. Guess I haven’t been missing much eh.

  165. Furluge
    May 13, 2015 at 11:47 pm

    “Again, it’s just a difference in culture and upbringing. It’s not wrong, just different.”

    And that’s where you can’t have an argument with these people. To them it is wrong, and all other cultures and people need to match up to their personal view of how things should be and how to live your life. That’s what makes them so similar to hard core evangelical Christians following a different dogma.

  166. DariusQ
    May 13, 2015 at 11:56 pm

    Let the haters hate, that is their right. The only thing that concerns me is when they get all militant about their self-righteousness and start imposing their views on others through censorship. I don’t care what cause that’s for but it is never a good thing for freedom of speech or otherwise.

    Very insightful read regarding seishun. Its along the same lines as how moe gets misinterpreted and stigmatized.

  167. Shinaru
    May 13, 2015 at 11:59 pm

    Hey thanks. I’ve been looking for this picture forever, but couldn’t find the right words to search for it.

  168. Thanatos2k
    May 14, 2015 at 12:03 am

    Have you noticed the disgraceful Polygon Witcher 3 review isn’t on metacritic? I wonder why.

  169. NovaSe7en
    May 14, 2015 at 12:04 am

    I don’t think the average western gamer is necessarily opposed to fanservice, and in fact, there is a double standard at work here. The Witcher III is filled with erotic content, and you won’t find too many in the community expressing outrage over it (just look at Conan’s video and the reactions). It’s when you bring the anime aesthetic into the mix that it becomes a problem. There’s two reasons for that, and you’ve brought up one of them in this editorial. The other has to do with what I have dubbed the “Disney Effect”.

  170. Thanatos2k
    May 14, 2015 at 12:05 am

    Steins;Gate had a full on transsexual. And it was treated perfectly within the game. You’ll never see anyone write about that though.

  171. Thanatos2k
    May 14, 2015 at 12:07 am

    Why are you even discussing anything on Neogaf? The first time nonsense like that happened I would have bene out of there, forever.

  172. Pyrotek85
    May 14, 2015 at 12:07 am

    You’re absolutely right. It’s the ‘cartoons are for kids’ BS, which then sort of merged with the somewhat still present ‘videogames are for kids’ BS, and this is what we get. Horrible games that are teaching our kids to be rapists. Or something.

  173. Pyrotek85
    May 14, 2015 at 12:09 am

    I really should really save that one myself, it’s perfect to use in those debates.

  174. Omnistrand
    May 14, 2015 at 12:09 am

    No problem. It’s always good to share resources that expose lies, corruption, hypocrisy, unethical behaviour or any combination thereof.

  175. scdk
    May 14, 2015 at 12:24 am

    Nice article, but I think it ultimately fell short in a number of spots, especially when it came to generalizing statements like Japan “embracing sexuality” while the West “can’t stomach” it. But to be fair, it’s a widely multi-faceted topic that’d probably require a lot more study and text than the average reader is going to put up with.

    Regarding the acceptance of Japanese-style fanservice in games, I think it’s important to consider that it could be a vocal (large?) minority making most of the fuss. Western localization companies have been increasingly bold in what games they bring over. Case in point: Dungeon Travelers 2. The only reasonable assumption you can make is that people are buying these games enough to warrant the effort. After all, businesses aren’t in the habit of trying to lose money. For every person that makes a racket online, there are probably multiple people who simply choose to avoid the confrontation and just enjoy the games.

    As for why people are vocally upset about it, well… that’s the part that you could write a number of books on. To make this really quick, I think two really big important factors are: 1) the Japanese idolization of high school “golden years” (i.e. ‘seishun’) versus the West’s tendency to idolize and encourage maturity and adulthood, which leads to 2) the difference of the types of sexual content we see in Eastern and Western games.

    Basically, Japan tends to focus on the high school golden years, meaning a lot of younger characters in their games. Western games tend to idolize maturity and condemn childishness, often featuring young adults (20s-30s) in their games. Sex tends to be more acceptable in Western video games as long as it’s a “mature” depiction of sex.

    Then of course are the logical fallacies that people resort to to resolve personal discomforts. For one, there’s the mistake of equating law with morality: 18 or over is fine, but under that, and suddenly it’s a breach of moral code. Correction: It’s a breach of law, and breaking the law doesn’t inherently equate to being immoral. The age of consent is arguably one of the most arbitrary and difficult things to define: How do you determine when someone is mature enough to consent to sex, and then prescribe ONE age for all people? To be fair, being a sex offender in the West is a terrible thing, and I can see why people are so afraid of this train of thought. For most people, it’s safest and easiest if The Law is the Law, And That’s Final.

    Secondly, I think Westerners tend to falsely associate sexual content in games with living a sexless life, i.e. you must be a virgin or desperate to enjoy these games. I think this notion stems from the West’s idolization of maturity and adulthood, resulting in the need for that vocal group to pre-emptively assert that, in fact, they are not virgins (immature) because they don’t need or like these types of games. Therefore, to these people, anyone who likes these kinds of games must be a virgin/immature or there must be something wrong with them.

    I could go on but I think there are some pretty good points made in the comments regarding violence, fantasy vs. reality, and so on.

    Anyways, like I said before, someone is buying enough of these games that companies are making these somewhat risky moves — I wouldn’t worry about it too much. As for judging these games fairly, that’s definitely true; Dungeon Travelers is looking to possibly be the best dungeon crawler on the Vita, at least in terms of gameplay mechanics. Five base classes, 11 mid-classes, and 16 final classes!

  176. scdk
    May 14, 2015 at 12:26 am

    christ, that was longer than I thought it’d be.

    Also, thanks for finally getting an RSS feed up! I tried following your Twitter for a while but disliked the amount of non-news posts coming from it (as is typical for Twitter).

  177. sanic
    May 14, 2015 at 12:41 am

    People need to understand if they dislike something they more than often have the choice not to participate, believing you should be able to decide what others consume is depressingly narcissistic.

  178. Kiryu
    May 14, 2015 at 12:42 am

    What do you expect from commies?What we call censorship they call social justice.

  179. Raziel Barkrai
    Raziel Barkrai
    May 14, 2015 at 12:45 am

    This picture just makes me disappointed with those who judge games like Atelier, especially since the Atelier series is pretty reserved in their fanservice (Meruru being the one with the most from what I experienced). People need to at least give these games a fucking chance before they throw them to the side. It’s like the saying, “don’t judge a book by it’s cover”.

  180. Nagato
    May 14, 2015 at 12:51 am

    The scariest thing is that while they censor discussion of certain games to keep up appearances, they actually do harbor a fair number of actual pedophiles at Neogaf, and the mods are in on it.

  181. Omnistrand
    May 14, 2015 at 12:53 am

    As depressing as it may be I think that pictures like this are necessary. Judgement comes with the territory for all Japanese games, soon as you mention Japan in terms of media it’s immediately “So, how many tentacles and schoolgirls are involved”. It’s easier to pick out and exacerbate what seems strange to you when in reality it might be miniscule or even non-existent. A lot of people tend to take the easier road and simply dismiss things on shallow, perceived faults. The mark of an open mind is a person who is willing to see beyond the superficial and surface observations. That’s what we have to strive for and promote, that’s why we have to point out the hypocrisy of it all.

  182. Mysterious Friend X
    Mysterious Friend X
    May 14, 2015 at 1:19 am

    No prefecture in Japan, from what I understand, has the age of consent set at 13. It’s just the government-mandated bare minimum. The concept of “underage” doesn’t really mean anything, as age of consent and age of majority are (potentially arbitrary) legal decisions and have no bearing on things like physical development and the ability to give informed consent.

    But more importantly, age of consent has nothing to do with characters in games, anime and manga. They aren’t real people. They aren’t designed or written to be representative of real people. Otaku don’t think of them as representative of real people, and the whole point is that they aren’t. This is true whether you’re talking about teenagers or prepubescent characters. The “2D world” of games, anime and manga is its own self-contained reality with its own rules, and is only a funhouse mirror of reality (this isn’t universally the case, but the difference is easy to see when you have enough experience).

    To Westerners this is a very alien concept, and many will never be able to accept it no matter how meticulously it’s explained to them. In the West, fiction is only an extension of reality, and everything in it relates to reality in some way or must be made to relate to it. This attitude is particularly harmful when combined with a feminist perception of reality. Speaking of which, something feminist commentators don’t understand is that “fanservice” is not the sole domain of men in Japan. Many, many female artists create pornographic or otherwise “problematic” manga and illustrations. The Comiket event, where people self-publish a great deal of pornographic manga (among other things), is still majority female. The attendance is about half a million people, twice a year.

  183. Pyrotek85
    May 14, 2015 at 1:19 am

    What’s really bad is no mainstream Japanese games that I’ve seen are anywhere near as sexually explicit as mainstream Western games are explicit in their violence and gore. Like you literally need to go looking for extreme hentai or something to even begin to compare them, and those are a niche.

    But a game like Mortal Kombat is out on the store shelves, and many parents will even buy it for their underage kids because they either don’t know or don’t think it’s a big deal.

  184. Omnistrand
    May 14, 2015 at 1:30 am

    It gets worse. Discounting VNs, how many professional Japanese games can you name that has explicit sexual content? Not fanservice or ecchi or anything like that, full blown nipples, penis, sex, what have you. Right now off the top of my head nothing really comes to mind. Let’s take a look at Western games. Right off the bat; Almost all modern Bioware games (Dragon Age, Mass Effect), Grand Theft Auto, Metro, Farcry 3. Despite the popular held viewpoint of Japan being a bastion of perversion, Japanese games don’t even beat out Western games of comparable status in terms of sexual content!

    And let’s not even get into the ultra violence you mentioned. ‘It’s totally fine that my child can tear out someone’s spine or choke someone with his own intestines or even torture a man, but a pantyshot? That’s where I draw the line!’

  185. Pyrotek85
    May 14, 2015 at 1:39 am

    Now I’d agree that Japanese games may be consistently titillating, but as you said it’s most often very tame. It’s more about teasing and implications.

  186. Nin
    May 14, 2015 at 1:49 am

    Damn, the only thing I hate more than fan service is text and reading

    Jokes aside though, yeah, it gets annoying. As someone who semi-frequently visits third world countries, 13 is fine as the age of consent if not necessarily ideal. While I wouldn’t recommend anyone to marry that young, it’s just that sometimes you have to, and you can do so without suffering psychological damage.

  187. mr_starman
    May 14, 2015 at 2:31 am

    lol CS Lewis is a devout Christian and he’ll hate this sexualized shit.

  188. dsadsada
    May 14, 2015 at 3:11 am

    Being a devout Christian doesn’t mean anything. I’m catholic and I have 0 problems with fanservice.

    And even if he does disagree with it, he’d still ignore it because it’s not worth his time. That’s part of what he meant by putting away childish things. Getting upset over something so small is childish.

  189. JackDandy
    May 14, 2015 at 3:24 am

    Can you give me an archive link to the polygon article, please?

  190. dsadsada
    May 14, 2015 at 3:47 am

    Might be referring to this one, I’m not sure. Only saw this just a couple hours ago while checking out the Dungeon Travelers 2 Pre-Order article.


  191. ReaperX30
    May 14, 2015 at 3:52 am

    Great piece Chris. I never knew the japanese age of consent was 13 so I just learned something new. Never got why violence is ok but as soon as some flesh is shown people panic. It’s not just in the US, I’m in Canada and it’s the same here. When I talk about Senran Kagura people look at me weird like I’m some kind of pervert. Talk about Mortal Kombat X and how it’s gory though and then you’re part of the gang. This makes me sick to be honest and while I can play and enjoy violent games from time to time I tend to stay away from gratuitous ones. I really enjoyed the game Outlast and it’s DLC. It was pretty violent and disturbing but it made sense. Games like Mortal Kombat don’t really make sense to me and the over the top violence doesn’t appeal to me. I played fighting games without the violence and they were still satisfying so I don’t see the point. Anyway that’s my two cents and I already pre-ordered Dungeon Travelers 2.

  192. perfectchaos83
    May 14, 2015 at 4:10 am

    Unfortunately, the AoC thing is a bit misleading. While the federal age of consent is 13, most, if not all, prefectures have an AoC of around 16 or so. Just something that should be noted.

  193. ReaperX30
    May 14, 2015 at 4:55 am

    16 is more appropriate I think but then again I guess it depends on the life style and culture.

  194. Ryuzaki57
    May 14, 2015 at 5:18 am

    Thanks for this, very solid good points! People need to stop being outraged by fanservice OR start being outraged by senseless violence. The double standarts can’t go on.

  195. Ryuzaki57
    May 14, 2015 at 5:20 am

    Yeah, let’s discuss crime and violence in GTAV. So much cooler…

    Quite pathetic from GAF, not that I expect anything from mods these days.

  196. Alistair
    May 14, 2015 at 5:22 am

    That just sad it won’t be a ecchi if you take out the Fanservice.

    If you take it out of senran it be just a run of the mill beat em up that like all the rest churning out year after year It does get boring.

    Different story yes but same gameplay over & over = boring.

    Some-one once said its not the story or graphics that makes a good game gameplay does.

    Some games has Fanservice as its core in gameplay eg: monpiece & CG mini game.

  197. Anon534
    May 14, 2015 at 5:28 am

    More like people need to get over themselves being outraged at things they dont like.
    Its funny how the leftists and “progressive” new generation are the new nazis and thought police
    Who could see this coming
    If something offends you its your fault, grow a pair.

  198. JackDandy
    May 14, 2015 at 5:33 am

    Thanks man.

  199. raze2012
    May 14, 2015 at 5:41 am

    Thanks so much. I saw this a couple years back, but could never find it again when I needed it. Saved.

    And fuck whoever fuck told me years back that the Altelier series was filled with creepy, sexual fanservice and delayed my staring of the series. Really shows how quick people are to judge games because they use a certain artstyle.

  200. JackDandy
    May 14, 2015 at 5:42 am

    It just keeps happening.

    This should rename it “The Schreier effect”.

  201. raze2012
    May 14, 2015 at 6:00 am

    1a. I’d argue SK could still be an engaging game w/o the fanservice. Story has always been the definition of generic, but you go through it for the character interactions, not the overarching plot. And almost all the characters go through their time of growth in the story (at least in burst and SV).

    1b. beat em ups are being churned out again? Could be my own ignorance, but there hasn’t been too many other beat em ups lately. SK, Dynasty Warriors (then again, that has always been around), and upcoming Nepptunia U spin off. And Dragon crown and Muramusa if you want to go back a few years. Beat em ups seemed to die down as the fighting game scene rose to prominence. And hunting games helped cut in, too.

    If I missed any, lemme know (I adore beat em’ ups every now and then).

    2, for monopiece, it was a mechanic. They could have taken the entire minigame (hell, I wouldn’t mind. There wasn’t enough variation to titillate me and the tapping got repetitive quickly) out and still ended up with a surprisingly satisfying card game. And that what had me buy it in the end (I have a PC for actual ecchi if I need it. Why tease myself?). It seems to be the same case for CG, but I haven’t played it myself.

  202. Kiryu
    May 14, 2015 at 6:04 am

    The Streisand effect.Same thing happened with Senran Kagura on 3DS,these SJW buffoons are doing free publicity without even noticing.

  203. Kiryu
    May 14, 2015 at 6:32 am

    You should have answered with a question;lots of violent games,do you have a thing for ISIS?

  204. anon9370
    May 14, 2015 at 6:44 am

    Nonsense, Atelier has high impact sexual violence! The filth should be outright banned! Won’t someone think of the children!!!

  205. anon9370
    May 14, 2015 at 6:46 am

    Not to mention in their depiction sexuality as well. Plenty of Western games feature explicit sex like Witcher, Far Cry 3&4, Thief IV, etc.

  206. Zombie_Barioth
    May 14, 2015 at 6:55 am

    Great article.

    Its funny to me how in tbe sexual vs. violence debate people are quote to proclaim “its just a game/movie/ect.” and is perfectly harmeless when it comes to violence, but somehow anything remotely sexual somehow “its different”.

  207. anon9370
    May 14, 2015 at 6:57 am

    You’re right. I bought Dragon’s Crown specifically because of him as his nonsensical ‘outrage’ and personal attacks against George Kamitani and Vanillaware.

  208. anon9370
    May 14, 2015 at 7:04 am

    Yeah, fucking complete idiots. They’re promoting the very thing they want to destroy with their absurd ‘outrage’.

  209. anon9370
    May 14, 2015 at 7:06 am

    You referred to 30s as young adult? 30s is considered an old hag in Japan lol

  210. anon9370
    May 14, 2015 at 7:10 am

    I think it’s more Europe. They’re the ones who classify loli the same as actual child pornography and even ban A cup petite, adult stars in some cases. Hell, Sweden banned DOA 3DS and labeled it child pornography, if I can remember correctly.

  211. anon9370
    May 14, 2015 at 7:12 am

    Every product must be tailored to be inclusive of everyone including womyn LGBT minorities and otherkin… that is unless it’s a product aimed at women. Women’s romance novels and shit is left alone, but media consumed by men needs ‘more diversity’.

  212. anon9370
    May 14, 2015 at 7:15 am

    Sweden is the most ‘progressive’ country in Europe. That’s the direction the entire West is heading in…

  213. anon9370
    May 14, 2015 at 7:18 am

    Not always. Nagano, for example, is 13 period.

  214. anon9370
    May 14, 2015 at 7:18 am

    Nagano for one.

  215. Zombie_Barioth
    May 14, 2015 at 7:19 am

    Great article.

    Its funny to me how in tbe sexual vs. violence debate people are quote to proclaim “its just a game/movie/ect.” and is perfectly harmeless when it comes to violence, but somehow anything remotely sexual somehow “its just different”. I’d somewhat understand if we were talking about actual adult content, but we’re not, most fan-servicy games come nowhere near that level, nor do most people seem to understand anything actual hentia to begin with.

    They’ll argue how its “unnecessary” and has no place in game, while simultaneously explaining how the gratuitous violence in such games as Mortal Kombat does.

    At least the people who somehow equate both with porn or other AO level content are consistent in their argument, albiet equally mind-numbingly stubbrn and self-righteous.

  216. anon9370
    May 14, 2015 at 7:25 am

    You’re wrong. It is completely appropriate. It describes exactly the kind of people we need to fight. Social Justice Warriors are a huge problem throughout society. It goes way beyond gaming. Just read this article for an example. These crazy fanatic neo-marxists and radfems who are constantly ‘triggered’ by any little thing really do have delusions of righteousness.


    “By the prevailing standards of the American criminal-justice system,
    Miller-Young had engaged in vandalism, battery, and robbery. By the
    logic of the p.c. movement, she was the victim of a trigger and had
    acted in the righteous cause of social justice.”

  217. kerbstrar
    May 14, 2015 at 7:28 am

    My preorder would of been up there too, but I’m waiting now to see what was censored before I decide

  218. anon9370
    May 14, 2015 at 7:28 am

    What we call tyranny, they call ‘social justice’. They want to frame the narrative and silence all opposition.

  219. Kiryu
    May 14, 2015 at 7:38 am

    Agree.Knowing them i would not even be surprised if they said that people who disagree with them should be put in reeducation camps.

  220. Wand
    May 14, 2015 at 8:00 am

    The problem being we, the readers of this site and the fans of this kind of games, already know these things you posted. And if you try to explain this (I tried a helluva lot of times, then I just gave up) to someone else you get called a retard or a raging pervert. You can’t break their circular logic.

  221. Tyrannikos
    May 14, 2015 at 8:15 am

    Good read. Thanks, Chris.

  222. Phelan
    May 14, 2015 at 8:24 am

    Let me say that I’m not really fan of fanservice or erotic content.

    I believe that in many cases it might ruin general opinion about game. But that is… only if it is implemented in wrong and pushy way. And by that I mean things like this (even though it is anime.. but still valid)


    Pushy fanservice is always bad thing.

    BUT! If the game has risky conent like this than either it is worth to localize it without any changes at all… or not localize it at all. Simple as that!

    On the other hand in games like Demon Gaze I found it…. how to say it… not bothering at all(?).

    And I can’t even imagine playing Fate/Stay Night with all erotic content cut off. I mean for god sake it is there for some reason. The game without it wouldn’t be complete. But than again it’s not just sex for sex, it is part of a plot.

    Do anyone believe that people buy those games to masturbate right in front of screen?! That would be gross.

    Sure there are games that are too bothering for me and I wouldn’t ever buy those. But hey… nobody forces me to buy it, mright?

    Than again I do believe that in some cases some parts should be censored… the thing I’m NOT willing to accept are the pedophilia scenes with too realistic art style… but than again… I don’t know whether any title like this even exist (hope not), maybe there is some sick content like this but I can’t really know as for obvious reason didn’t even try looking for disgusting things like this.

    But realistic art style is rather thing that you can find in western games… not really in japanese games, so there shouldn’t be a problem.

    Anyway… too realistic content should be not only banned but also prosecuted.

    But aye there is something weird with all that crusade against japanese games. I don’t really understand that… I mean how come GTA V where you can murder innocent people is A OK and games like Fate/Stay Night not ok?! It’s doesn’t make any sense to me.

    Again NOBODY should ever cross the line. But sex is one of the least dangerous stuff waiting in this dark and brutal word.

  223. kerbstrar
    May 14, 2015 at 8:30 am

    Cool story

  224. tccboss
    May 14, 2015 at 8:48 am

    You’re wrong shit master fan service is destroying gaming and the only way to fix it is by shoving gender politics into it, grow up.

  225. Kiryu
    May 14, 2015 at 10:24 am

    Being offended is not an argument.

  226. DariusQ
    May 14, 2015 at 10:41 am

    And their methods are how they got the name femiNAZIS. That’s no accident and more than a little apt.

  227. Wand
    May 14, 2015 at 11:32 am

    Good thing you’re only a few people then.

  228. JackDandy
    May 14, 2015 at 12:18 pm

    Even the elf is pretty stacked – just small when in comparison to Amazon and Sorceress.
    Also rockin’ dat zettai ryouiki

  229. Some Person
    Some Person
    May 14, 2015 at 12:31 pm

    As long as we’re talking about good games with some fanservice, lets not forget the Agarest War series. A generational RPG, your main romances, and eventually marries, one of the females on the team. The result of that union goes on to be your new main. I love the concept of the generational game, and I want more.

  230. Omnistrand
    May 14, 2015 at 1:17 pm

    O course they are, do you think pictures on the internet lie? Atelier is not for the weak heart. Only through a strong constitiution and iron will can you stomach playing the games.

  231. Phelan
    May 14, 2015 at 1:44 pm

    secondary illiteracy?

  232. PenguinPlayer
    May 14, 2015 at 3:20 pm

    From what I got this pretty much boils down to “People grow in a certain culture and when met with people with different values they try to force their views unto them rather than trying to understand and coexist with them” or perhaps more simply “People who can’t fucking put themselves in another’s shoes for 10 seconds”.

    Which is a problem that doesn’t just affects gaming, it’s detrimental to mankind on a global scale. Definitely one of my top three pet peeves of humanity. Meet it every day in the most unexpected of places, and every day it gets increasingly annoying.

    As for the article itself, it’s a pretty good job. Keep up the good work Chris.

  233. Siveon
    May 14, 2015 at 4:05 pm

    It’s already been said before but, it probably needed to be said again.

    I, personally, don’t care for it; but I still play plenty of games with it and it’s not something to whine about. At least, anymore (really it’s so prevalent nowadays that bitching about it will only result in counter-bitching).

    It’s like whining over violence- OH WAIT.

  234. Kiryu
    May 14, 2015 at 4:54 pm

    I’m also a big fan of Agarest,i even ordered the two artbooks that come out in a few months.A really underrated series i think and i hope Compile Heart is not done with it.

  235. Nonscpo
    May 14, 2015 at 5:33 pm

    Well put!

  236. Nonscpo
    May 14, 2015 at 5:36 pm

    Dude you might as well, the only other site besides this one worth going to for niche news these day’s is Gematsu.

  237. Nonscpo
    May 14, 2015 at 5:40 pm

    I understand and respect where your coming from, but realistically there’s too much bad blood these days across social media with that demographic. Your heart’s in the right place, but not your timing.

  238. Nonscpo
    May 14, 2015 at 5:42 pm

    Agreed Lester, the hypocrisy is almost hilarious…almost ;)

  239. Turt
    May 14, 2015 at 6:20 pm

    This is a very very interesting observation.

    Publishers should take note.
    The “negative” press attention does in fact raise sales.
    Who knows?
    Maybe most consumers are not the dumb lemmings after all and actually form opinions of their own about a game once they hear about it, so even a negative article might spark interest in a game and increase sales.

  240. Pyrotek85
    May 14, 2015 at 7:47 pm

    I’m like that with the ultra violence and gore. I’m not offended by it, but it doesn’t really do anything for me either. So if that’s the lure a game uses I’m less likely to try it, but I don’t actively avoid games with it.

  241. dsadsada
    May 14, 2015 at 8:38 pm

    I’m not sure Type-Moon games are a good example for games where the ‘removal of the porn is bad’. The mana transfer thing was the only time the porn would be plot relevant and that’s more of a shoehorn. The VN’s plot stands perfectly fine without it. Similarly, Muv-Luv Alternative can also do just fine with all of its porn cut. Heck, one of its scenes is too disturbing and depressing anyway since terrible things happen to a character you should have grown to love in Muv-Luv Extra.

    That aside, I’m in perfect agreement that the more realistic art as is prevalent in western media is more dangerous than the unrealistic, simplistic artstyle prevalent in anime-styled mediums. And while I’m more than fond of anime lolis, I find it difficult if not outright disgusting to stomach realistic western depictions of sexualized children. I wouldn’t say that it should be banned or prosecuted though as long as no actual child had been involved but whatever.

    Also, you should totally check out the “Be mine, hero!” “I refuse!” manga version of Maou if you haven’t already.

  242. erohakase
    May 14, 2015 at 8:56 pm

    You had me at best ToHeart2 waifu pic. I agree with the points raised but obviously waifu > opinions or something like that.

  243. perfectchaos83
    May 14, 2015 at 9:35 pm

    Technically, yes on F/SN, but the alternate scenes are absolute garbage that make the H-scenes look like masterpieces. The sex also plays pivitol roles in Shirou;s relationships with the Heroines

  244. Derek
    May 15, 2015 at 2:35 am

    They are standing example of being gimped by Somethingawful’s strapon.

  245. Derek
    May 15, 2015 at 2:36 am

    Maybe not sex prudishness but paranoia of being outed as a sex offender just because you had a collection of sexually deviant content and lawyers using that as a smoking gun to destroy your life.

  246. Derek
    May 15, 2015 at 2:37 am

    I call this desperate for salvation and then sinning all over again.

  247. Derek
    May 15, 2015 at 2:38 am

    I call it spiteful purchases to stick it to someone.

  248. Derek
    May 15, 2015 at 2:39 am

    It works both ways, it lets them find the largest concentration of sexual deviants, find one that is easy to break/accuse.

    Then you hang them and remind everyone the price of supporting games like these is summary humiliation and watching as your social life is destroyed.

  249. Derek
    May 15, 2015 at 2:52 am

    Persona and Agarest, but you are correct they don’t have explicit sexual moments

  250. Phelan
    May 15, 2015 at 3:21 am

    Aye, it was stupid from plot point of view. But than again, it is hard to me to imagine game without it. If something is already in game, why delete it? And than again I don’t think that it was porn for porn sake. If someone was playing Fate/Stay Night for porn than he probably was dissapointed… i mean I think there was like 1 scene for each of 3 girls… and game was really long.

    Plus well… we know that one of characters was abused in her childhood. And that creates in gamer not a feeling of arousal but a disgust. It would be very hard to imply what happened to her cutting out all erotic content. But hey that’s only my opinion.

    Sorry don’t know about Muv-Luv Alternative.

    Right? I’m not really bothered by not realistic depiction of underage girls. But if it was game like… hmm… GTA V or The Last of US… and there was content like this… I wouldn’t really let it go. Maybe it is stupid because this and that are not real, nobody is involved.

    But realistic art-style is something I will never accept.

    Made by Akira? Not really my thing. There are like 5 or 6 version of Maoyuu. And from those I think that that made by Asami Yuu is the best. Still nothing that can compare to original LN.


  251. perfectchaos83
    May 15, 2015 at 3:44 am

    That’s why he said explicit. Both of those are only alluded to or, in agarest’s case, having the after effects displayed.

  252. anon9370
    May 15, 2015 at 6:24 am

    >implying any weeaboo has a social life outside of image boards

  253. Batata Potato Patate
    Batata Potato Patate
    May 15, 2015 at 8:32 am

    Well, that makes sense. What’s the hometown in his catchphrase?

  254. Pyrotek85
    May 15, 2015 at 9:06 am

    Exactly, and compared to violence few games leave anything to the imagination. It’s often very blatant and over the top, but it doesn’t get called out for it nearly as much, if at all.

    Everyone would just laugh if you were to call them murder simulators, and hardly anybody believes they cause people to become more violent, since we’ve all been playing them for decades now.

    So why the double standard with sex then? Can’t games be blatant and over the top with that too if that’s what the creators want? Does anyone seriously believe that it’s going to cause people to act out on sexual urges that they wouldn’t otherwise?

    It’s just unbelievable to me that we even have to have discussions about this.

  255. Omnistrand
    May 15, 2015 at 10:16 am

    I’m not overly familiar with Agarest since I never played the series but last I recalled Persona’s explicit moments were implied, unless my memory’s starting to fail me. However there’s also Mara. Just Mara. Heh I suppose you could say the games are explicit by virtue of his/her entire existence.

  256. lpchaim
    May 15, 2015 at 11:39 am

    Yes, that I can see being a factor for some.

  257. dark-kyon
    May 15, 2015 at 12:04 pm

    I have the opportunity of seing how this began with games how monster moonpiece,the problem for me with neogaf is what mods don’t ban and even support peoples attacking others posters for not being against these games,so you have threads of games how monster moonpiece,criminal girls where some peoples are calling others pedophiles for not want to ban games what they are not played,others post lewd images what not going to be in the game to create more controversy.then the mod ban at peoples what are against the censorship and don’t understand how games rated for esrb need to be attacked or not be discusses,if the mods take measures against these types of posters,games how dungeon travelers could be discussed without problem,the same how in his respective import OT.

  258. Derek
    May 15, 2015 at 1:02 pm

    In the convention community. Word flies fast if they find out you an actual pervert. People will step away fro. You really fast

  259. Derek
    May 15, 2015 at 11:12 pm

    Well it is about execution, Western entertainment as Omnistrand said is not afraid to show actual sex in their works. Meanwhile in the niche otaku fandom, it is considered a sales technique to be able to see bare nudity as a bonus. Console Gaming sadly does not receive the benefits of this sales gimmick.

  260. rpgmaniac
    May 16, 2015 at 6:02 am

    Who the fuck care what some moral [email protected] thinking, we are free to play whatever the fuck we want & it’s no ones business to judge us for our tastes, what I can’t stomach is when the companies who publish these games in the West butcher them & don’t give to the fans the original/unedited/uncensored experience the same Japanese gamers had, when this happen I can’t forgive or support with my wallet the companies who do it.

  261. Алексей Гришин
    Алексей Гришин
    May 16, 2015 at 6:24 am

    Thanks, but no thanks. I hate fanservice, not because I’m offended or something like that, but because I’m just tired. I’m tired of breast size jokes, which I heard around 1 million times, I’m tired of pantsu jokes, I’m tired of hot springs jokes and etc. It’s frickin overused in modern anime and games.

  262. Juan Manuel M. Suárez
    Juan Manuel M. Suárez
    May 16, 2015 at 7:59 pm

    Article is spot on and I think nobody will disagree. Unfortunately, it’s been more than two decades, and Japan is still regarded as that weird guy with the weird likes and fetishes. It’s insane, for a country often treated as harsh on outsiders, the rest of the World has been nothing but cunts towards Japan~.

    The perpetual misinterpretation and vilification of things that just don’t catter to the Western pallate has been an ever present stigmata. You know a review is fucked up when a con lists “fanservice” or “underage characters” yet games that thrive on gore, violence and similar themes often see such traits as a plus. It could be argued that the West is desensitized to violence but then so what? A game should be scored according to how fun it can be. If seeing anime girls on a screen makes you uncomfortable, then you have issues. It’s insane that we are ok with high scale chases through fictional cities that leave an infinite amount of corpses in its wake but we cry foul for having to spend 20 seconds in fanservice mini games [ie: Monster Monpiece, Valhalla Knights 3, etc]~.

    But ultimately, the worst offender is, has always been, and will always be review sites. Media has made it a habit of encouraging and fanning the flames towards Japanese content that doesn’t meet Western standards. And that’s messed up. Journalism should be objective and never ride on the hate bus just to score hits. Especially since in doing so, they are promoting the narrow minded mentality that ultimately see niche games fail when they shouldn’t. I masturbated my PSV furiously in Monster Monpiece to score better cards and I laughed every single time. It was a very fun 20 hours campaign and dunces missed on a great TCG just because sites said “Lolis. Nope”~.

    But the consumer base is not without blame either. If detractors are a bunch of narrow minded assholes, pro niche games can be as much of a prick. Publishers do what they do to ensure their localized products won’t be completely destroyed by review sites. So, instead of supporting whatever effort, we see people rising up in imaginary crusades against the ever evil censorship. People are proud of boycotting localized games when in reality they are only proving that those games have no room in the West. I can’t tell if people are too dumb or they are too young, because 20 years ago we could only daydream of what games in Japan were like by looking at five screenshots on magazines and be mesmerized by the amazing art. Nowadays we get the chance to play those games and because changes, sometimes changes that tone down the fanservice aspect, are made, people stone them. It’s a no Win situation for publishers, Japan and, ultimately, those of us who are invested in these games and support them no matter what~.

  263. Natsu Dragneel
    Natsu Dragneel
    May 17, 2015 at 12:22 am

    Okay, I’m a proud owner of a Vita and Quite a bit on niche titles. I watch and physically own over 45 anime’s (well different ones is about 25 seeing I have part 1 and 2’s etc for some series). Some have serious fan service in some of my buys. Senran Kagura Shinovi Vs Let’s Get Physical Edition, Unbreakable Machine Doll LE (has a booklet in it that goes further than Senran smh), and so on. I enjoy those, hell I loved Heaven’s Lost Property etc.
    But I have problems with fan service. A big one at that. My problem isn’t that it exists, hell I loved it in Heaven’s Lost Property, the little bit Fairy Tail has is great for it’s purpose etc. But my issue is in most cases IT IS UNNECESSARY, I don’t mind when it adds to something. Like someone else in the comments I’m a comedy fiend. I watch hundreds of Comedy Anime, majority has some sort of fan service and 95% of them have the iconic swim suit episodes. But things get taken so overboard. Sekirei, Ikki Tousen and Maken Ki come to mind. Some good ideas ruined by overused fan service. No one needs to see Hakafu liquidate her panties in a close up while she’s being submitted. I think seeing her not being able to stop her body from releasing saliva gets the message across about how deadly it is. Hell some panties in shots that it would naturally show in is fine too. But that’s excessive. Sekirei, great idea about the numbered sekirei, and the purpose though unless i released before the Fate series I feel it was a ripped idea which is fine either way too me. Unnecessary how they got to be stripped to nothing everytime they lose lol. Maken Ki, is a fun show but it’s just disturbing to think someone thought it was okay to make boobs like that.
    Senran now, I’ve only played Shinovi Vs and watched the anime. But apart from being stronger by stripping, the fan service isn’t really necessary. It’s just really to bring in a crowd. I’m not a fan of the ripping clothes in close ups, especially in Neptunia U where 85% of the characters are implied to be young. But I plan on getting unbreakable clothes for every outfit i’ll be using in the game so I’m not really complaining. Also even people who buy, love games like Senran and so on and have no problem and see games like criminal girls and are disgusted like I am. PS. don’t believe me I can post proof. Not saying they shouldn’t exist, but I hate it when not necessary.

  264. Arbitrary
    May 17, 2015 at 2:20 am

    “People Need to Get Over Themselves Being Outraged at Fanservice in Video Games.”

    No. We need to purge it like the base shit it is; male or female.

  265. OverlordZetta
    May 17, 2015 at 12:53 pm

    Then can we purge stuff like Mortal Kombat too?

  266. Aushria
    May 17, 2015 at 2:30 pm

    I am a very devout Christian and I am so deeply rooted in Japanese culture and entertainment that I just don’t care about Western views on these things.

    So it’s a little skin? Who cares.

    Games like Senran Kagura, Neptunia and the like are my go-to entertainment bastions. I know many other Christians who are firm enough in their beliefs, their faith and their own values that they feel the same way.

    The generalization that all Christians are sticks in the mud who shy away from the world and it’s pleasures is as abhorrent as the people who pre-judge fanservice without knowing the background of which the work originated from.

  267. Sarracenia
    May 17, 2015 at 2:33 pm

    I know I’m late, but to quote the man himself
    “Tits are life, ass is hometown”

  268. Duce Ralli
    Duce Ralli
    May 17, 2015 at 4:05 pm

    Okay while i disagree with joe on GG that last part there is bull. He was staunchly anti-SOPA and he was mocking the bill. He is misguided in being that much of a white knight but he is no monster.

  269. Duce Ralli
    Duce Ralli
    May 17, 2015 at 4:11 pm

    my thoughts dude.

  270. Neojames82
    May 17, 2015 at 5:08 pm

    I’m not saying he is a monster, I’m saying he’s a moron though XD

  271. mr_starman
    May 17, 2015 at 6:32 pm

    lol what’s that about avoiding adultery?

  272. mr_starman
    May 17, 2015 at 6:33 pm

    I agree. We should ban high violence too.

  273. DynastyStar
    May 17, 2015 at 10:33 pm

    That Utawarerumono picture(the last one with the anthromorphic characters) XD

  274. dsadsada
    May 17, 2015 at 11:47 pm

    Adultery is having sex with someone other than your spouse. What exactly is your point?

  275. NintendoNaut
    May 18, 2015 at 1:20 am

    Fantastic article. Keep up the good work, guys.

  276. grgspunk
    May 18, 2015 at 2:32 am

    People within our own ranks also need to stop defending localization-induced censorship of fanservice in video games as well.

    People who are so afraid of those that get outraged at fanservice that they’re willing to justify the censoring of games have contributed just as much to the recent increase in self-censorship of Japanese titles as those that actually do get outraged at fanservice.

  277. Alistair
    May 18, 2015 at 6:55 am

    That is a fair comparison I wonder how the white Knights react to that comparison.

    & try to find a way to dismiss it.

    So both underage left pic computer graphics look like real girls hug Plus a “western” game = okay.

    Right picture underage drawings of girls in a hug from Japan & the cry out of oh No lolis = bad

    SJWs & they white knights are such hypocrites geeks.

    This tells me they hate ALL Japanese games over Western games.

  278. Alistair
    May 18, 2015 at 7:30 am

    I total agree with you Why while it been over a year I remember what these so called SJWs called us.

    I can’t believe people can’t remember what they say just before gamer gate or during gamergate.

    Didn’t they say gamers ID are dead that we are misognist, sexist even compare us Gamers to IS (terrorist) I haven’t forgotten what they say & is slander a criminal offence?

  279. Akumanoid
    May 19, 2015 at 12:44 am

    I’m sick of people having these platforms to demonize the male (and occasionally female) libido.

  280. Advance
    May 19, 2015 at 10:24 am

    “Imaginary crusades?” The censorship is real.

  281. Advance
    May 19, 2015 at 11:38 am

    There are so many other shows or games that you can enjoy. Ikki Tousen and other ultra-ecchi anime are a relatively small minority. If you think the ‘fanservice’ is “excessive” or “unnecessary”, then you can watch something else. Same for the games. Yet you people have to continually bash every single thing that doesn’t fit your tastes.

  282. Juan Manuel M. Suárez
    Juan Manuel M. Suárez
    May 19, 2015 at 11:41 am

    By definition, I suppose. But is the whole issue with Xenoblade on the Wii U really a crucial issue that should begot such outrage? How about the game Atlus is bringing over that is altering 4 images of an entire game? Oh, and Tharja’s ass? Yes, it’s censorship in order to catter to a harsh critic environment that deliberately punishes Eastern games. The “censorship” in these scenarios isn’t as much of an issue as everybody makes it out to be. Crusade all you want, if you don’t buy the games, you are part of the problem, not the solution~.

  283. NeoTechni
    May 19, 2015 at 4:02 pm

    As much as blaming and attacking every gamer for the actions of a few is

  284. reaxxionrj
    May 19, 2015 at 7:55 pm

    Agreed, if I want to play a game with big boobs and sexy girls I should be able to play it. Fanservice is showing the fans you know what they truly want in my opinion.

  285. PauI Yotsuba
    PauI Yotsuba
    May 19, 2015 at 8:14 pm

    Telling the japs what they can and can’t put in their media made for their people is hateful and racist.

    Stop downloading illegal “fan subtitles” and importing games not released in your country to begin with. You’re just looking for something to be angry at.

  286. Ryumoau
    May 19, 2015 at 9:01 pm

    i missed the days when japanese games had great stories and gameplay mechanics, and didn’t need to rely on predictable and cliche fanservice to get sales. :/

  287. Derek
    May 19, 2015 at 11:29 pm

    At least the localized ga.es have the problem. Its the part where we bitch about how we are not getting the quality games.

  288. Dammage
    May 20, 2015 at 9:04 am

    I dunno, these days are pretty great. We’re getting games like Bayonetta 2, Nobunaga’s Ambition, and Persona 5 along with games like Senran Kagura, Moe Chronicle and Onechanbara. I’d rather get both than just get one or the other

  289. Takua343
    May 20, 2015 at 12:53 pm

    Who is that cutie with the tail in the last pic?

  290. Raspberry
    May 20, 2015 at 5:27 pm

    Google Utawarerumono

  291. Arbitrary
    May 20, 2015 at 7:50 pm

    I find it perfectly admirable to hate the concept of fanservice. Sexual objectification, and appealing to the most base, selfish and primitive aspects of humanity, should *not* be encouraged.

    I do, however, find it appalling when people react only to overtly sexualized portrayals of women. If you really do hate fanservice because you find it unfair and dehumanizing, it makes no sense that you think it’s perfectly acceptable when men are the target.

    I find it beyond offensive when people raise a hissy-fit over how a female character in the latest Final Fantasy-game has her tits out, but have no problem, whatsoever, with the entirety of the male cast looking like a boy band. Because teenage boys can’t possibly made to feel insecure and insufficient.

  292. Derek
    May 21, 2015 at 12:25 pm

    Of course, it just feels like we are not getting the quality games localized sometimes that we forget to count our blessings. I mean we are still sore that Square Enix refuse to localize the newer Dragon Quests while Panty Quests from the Vita is certainly localized.

  293. Dammage
    May 21, 2015 at 12:31 pm

    Panty quest is not as hard to localize and costs much less money. Panty quest also has an assured fanbase so they know how manyu nits they will sell. Squeenix has much more to lose from a localization

  294. Derek
    May 21, 2015 at 1:55 pm

    And this is why people have so little respect for Japan these days while Korea is bathing in the praise of foreign press.

    If they are going to do niche, at least bring us something that isn’t going to get you labelled as a sex offender.

  295. Derek
    May 21, 2015 at 1:59 pm

    Western society isn’t desensitized to violence, it is about execution of mature subjects, Japanese games don’t tackle subject sex seriously despite all of the damaged clothing, panty shots and all they do.

  296. Brandon Orselli
    Brandon Orselli
    May 21, 2015 at 2:10 pm

    This got buried in the comments – always makes my black heart swell when I see comments like this. Thank you! We are very much a niche within a niche, and unlike Siliconera, you’ll never see us writing about Uncharted, Grand Theft Auto, ETC.

    We’ll never censor comments like they or other sites do either – unless they include CP, piracy, or legitimate threats (i.e. I’m going to find and kill you)

  297. Brandon Orselli
    Brandon Orselli
    May 21, 2015 at 2:23 pm

    Ah so you were one of the people asking for our RSS feed. Yeah it was a nightmare to figure out what code made it break…

    Also I agree with most of your points, in that its very, very hard to discern when the real age of consent really is, as everyone experiences sexual activity at different times. Most of my friends did before 18, I generally didn’t (outside fapping) until I was 18. L O L. It just depends.

    I want our site to explore this more in the future, in a more in depth fashion.

  298. Juan Manuel M. Suárez
    Juan Manuel M. Suárez
    May 21, 2015 at 5:40 pm

    That’s because the fanservice isn’t meant to be tackled as a serious matter, it’s meant for comic relief. If you ever thought that it’s a con they don’t tackle sex seriously you missed the entire point. And I have to disagree, we have games that are gratuituous carnage fests [GTA, MK, most FPS games, God of War, and so on and so forth] and nobody thinks it’s a big deal. In GTA you can even stop your car in front of a hooker and get them to hop on for a quick service, but people see panty shots and they scream “PEDOS”. Sorry, the double standard stinks too much~.

  299. Alistair
    May 21, 2015 at 5:42 pm

    CP would be hard to explain as a comparison then.

    Example like comparison between games with link with extreme violence or drawings and pedofilella.

    As you know SJWS love to called the games they don’t like & name them.

  300. Dammage
    May 21, 2015 at 6:19 pm

    Eh? People talk shit about Korea all the time. They’re the weird country that everyone is abscessed with beauty in and are run by idol groups. Japan just comes off as quirky. Also if people enjoy the games what’s the issue? It’s just a game. You can play Bloodborne or Samurai Warriors or one of the many many other Japanese games tha tdo get localized. Just because squeenix doesn’t do Dragon Quest does not mean other companies aren’t bringing plenty to the table

  301. Derek
    May 21, 2015 at 6:32 pm

    You nailed it spot on, the worst thing you get in a Japanese console/handheld game is censored nudity. Western games don’t skirt around that issue.

  302. boag
    May 21, 2015 at 7:54 pm

    Im afraid the Internet outrage culture is here to stay, its just too engrained into peoples workings to complain about shit they find “offensive”.

  303. Dr. Evil's Brother's Evil Twin
    Dr. Evil's Brother's Evil Twin
    May 21, 2015 at 8:14 pm

    Agreed. You can not like it, but to demand it be changed is where I draw the line. I see these prudes say that for gaming to become art, it needs to grow up. No, the ones who need to grow up are the people bothered by polygons in a screen.

  304. Dr. Evil's Brother's Evil Twin
    Dr. Evil's Brother's Evil Twin
    May 21, 2015 at 8:15 pm

    Yeah, and the manga version is the darker of the 3.

  305. Kengofu
    May 21, 2015 at 8:22 pm

    Stop…You had me at “unlike Siliconera”. <3 Haha, but really, this place is great!

  306. Dr. Evil's Brother's Evil Twin
    Dr. Evil's Brother's Evil Twin
    May 21, 2015 at 10:17 pm

    Hopefully they will eventually grow tired and move on.

  307. Dr. Evil's Brother's Evil Twin
    Dr. Evil's Brother's Evil Twin
    May 21, 2015 at 10:19 pm

    There might be more fanservice, but we still get good games.

  308. Dr. Evil's Brother's Evil Twin
    Dr. Evil's Brother's Evil Twin
    May 21, 2015 at 10:21 pm

    So you want to censor it? How sad…

  309. Dr. Evil's Brother's Evil Twin
    Dr. Evil's Brother's Evil Twin
    May 21, 2015 at 10:22 pm

    There are many games that don’t have it. Play those games.

  310. Dr. Evil's Brother's Evil Twin
    Dr. Evil's Brother's Evil Twin
    May 21, 2015 at 10:23 pm

    Sadly they are more of a threat than they should be. They have people in positions of power who are sympathetic to their cause.

  311. Dr. Evil's Brother's Evil Twin
    Dr. Evil's Brother's Evil Twin
    May 21, 2015 at 10:27 pm

    And they can hate and be bitter all they want. I draw the line though at them demanding it be changed because they don’t like it.

  312. Juan Manuel M. Suárez
    Juan Manuel M. Suárez
    May 21, 2015 at 11:13 pm

    As opposed to violence in Western games~?

  313. Dr. Evil's Brother's Evil Twin
    Dr. Evil's Brother's Evil Twin
    May 21, 2015 at 11:42 pm

    It’s okay not to like it, but to demand it be changed is something that shouldn’t happen. Fanservice sells and to not play a game because it has it in it seems like a personal problem. Vote with your wallet and don’t buy it.

  314. Алексей Гришин
    Алексей Гришин
    May 22, 2015 at 8:44 am

    As a portable gamer I don’t play much Western games (because you can count them on the fingers of one hand), so I can’t say much about violence.

  315. Nonscpo
    May 22, 2015 at 12:26 pm

    Agreed fiction is fiction, reality is reality, at the end of the day no one is forcing anybody to play any games; it’s what the free market is all about…options ;)

  316. Nonscpo
    May 22, 2015 at 12:27 pm

    Sadly I agree :(

  317. ronin4life
    May 22, 2015 at 8:00 pm

    This isn’t really, or at least isn’t *Just*, a Japanese-Video game issue. It really is a Japan-to-the-world issue they have been dealing with increasingly for the last few decades. Anime, Manga, Commercials that air ONLY IN JAPAN, and all sorts of other things are constantly the target of international scorn and anger over “Immoral and offensive content”.

    The gaming half is kind of just part of the wider cultural slamming they have been receiving since their Pop-culture took off world-wide, a pop-culture that is vastly different from any of the others of similar global impact and size.

  318. deathsChemist
    May 24, 2015 at 12:41 pm

    yosuke was originally gonna be romancible, but that was cut
    to this day i headcanon both yu and yosuke as bi

  319. chizwoz
    May 26, 2015 at 3:58 am

    CS Lewis is very much dead. He ain’t a nothing.

  320. Kenneth 'k-dubs' Williams
    Kenneth 'k-dubs' Williams
    May 26, 2015 at 10:09 am

    the bouncing breasts mode from DoA 1 was really ahead of its time. Give gamers an options to censor their own game. Don’t unilaterally take it away because some feel uncomfortable. I’d rather have a choice. I do understand that it may mean more more labor from devs, but it could attratct more players.

  321. Natsu Dragneel
    Natsu Dragneel
    May 26, 2015 at 10:45 am

    Don’t call me you people. Because your being dumb now. Did I say it shouldn’t exist. Go get a mate if you’re so defensive, you should be fine then.
    First, I mentioned 3 shows, why? I actually enjoy those apart from the fan service levels. I don’t let Fan service choose what I like. I buy, I play and do what I want. I’m an extreme supporter of Japan’s culture abroad. Alot of people defending that probably watch anime on illegal sites and so on. I have multiple subscriptions from Netflix, to FUNimation, to Crunchyroll and so on. I buy the shows I love even though almost everyone is accessible to me legally. Hell bought school rumble and that’s been on crackle for years. If someone has the right to explain a point of view here it’s these people like me. I will say it again, it’s unnecessary. Example, tearing clothes in my newest purchase Neptunia U, that is so unnecessary. I don’t wanna see Rom and Ram being stripped, I don’t need to see nepgears top/dress flying above her head and so on, Vert is understandable why? Reason behind it. I love the Neptunia series, not fond of the fanservice but I endore what I must. I have the anime pre-ordered for june 9th, premium sub stream of the dubs 3-12 release 10 am, and rebirth 3 as well for june 30th. I skipped Noire because that isn’t my type of game tactics/strategy style rpgs are boring to me. So I avoid what I hate, but I give things chances.
    I use examples that make sense. Neptunia should be known by most niche game players and ikkitousen, sekirei and maken ki are shows that are hard to miss if you watch alot of anime like I do.
    If I think a dude in a anime becoming pool water to feel some breast and steal some tops is necessary. I think I have a valid point. If you didn’t watch Heaven’s Lost property. Go watch it all amazing show all about fan service and I wouldn’t change it. Ikki-tousen. It added NOTHING to the actual plot. You’d probably get extremely defensive if I told you Oriemo is the most disgusting thing I’ve ran into and it should be banned from existence. The people who signed the deal to animate that. lock em up, people who are the original righters lock em up. Pure filth. I’ll judge proudly

  322. Murk
    July 13, 2015 at 6:55 pm

    Personally I quite dislike fanservice but not really for any of the reasons mentioned above.

    I think fate/stay/night for example is fantastic DESPITE its H-scenes not because of it. In fact I would say that they are terribly written in, feel rather forced and are downright comical.

    I’m okay with sex and bla bla. I’m not okay with it being done so badly that its distracting from the actual narrative without adding value and killing the pacing of the story.

    Too often with VN’s and animes does fanservice feel shoehorned in and makes the story worse off because of it. For me those kinds of scenes are usually filled with very stereotypical scenes that are 100% predictable and are just not enjoyable.

  323. John Smith.
    John Smith.
    March 13, 2016 at 3:16 pm

    Don’t mind fanservie or eroge, hell, I’d play jap love sims myself, but my poor PC fails to load anything from the land of the rising sun so I’m stuck reading about them while looking at the art.
    Here, Japanese comics and games sadly came under fire by the SJWs about five to six years ago for containing what they claimed was pedo artwork when Sailor Moon was first released as a translated manga. Whole erupted into a fireball that lasted a week then vanished under the carpet when another scandal broke out, but they were really, really close to gaining enough political pull to ban nearly all Japanese entertainment products.

  324. (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
    (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
    September 17, 2016 at 8:20 am

    While I agree with most of this you ruin it with the age of consent part. The federal lower limit in Japan is 13 by the penal code however by the Child Welfare Law and prefecture decency ordinances the age of consent all across Japan is 18 (which is actually higher than most places in the west who have it at 16) and that’s because culturally the modern Japanese think that is where it should be so it’s not a case of simply a different culture and upbringing. In Japan as a whole they legally view anyone under 20 as not an adult and in large anyone under 18 as “underage”. Which is again honestly higher than you find in most western countries on both counts.