We had the chance to speak with developer SBN3 about his upcoming game Class of ’09: The Flip Side, set to be the final chapter of the visual novel franchise. But after speaking with SBN3 we learned there’s more in store for the Class of ’09 franchise.

Earlier this year, after a successful “anime” Kickstarter, fans are curious about more projects featuring the characters Class of ’09. You can check out the trailer for Class of ’09: The Flip Side below:

NG: To start things off. I kind of want to ask: Why the shift to Jecka for the third game after the first two games with Nicole? It seems a little out of left field, not that I’m complaining.

SBN3: Well, the idea for a Jecka game… that’s been in the works. I mean that was a thought since probably August of 2022. And then also, I mean, you know fans who got the secret ending at the end of the re-up. You know, they saw like a flash of Jecka at the secret ending that you get if you unlock the seven endings. I wouldn’t say they were surprised, I think a lot of people were pontificating about the next game is gonna be centered around Jecka.

The reason for centering on Jecka is I mean it’s sort of it extends the brand. It fleshes out multiple characters. It sort of evens out the popularity between the two characters and you could have picked probably any character from with the exception of you know maybe the male characters or something like that, but you could have picked any character in Class of ’09 and you’d be able to make a game out of it.

It’s not really so much important which character it is just you know, is the writer doing it? The same writer from the other ones that people like. I’ve always said, you know, that’s what they say in comic books, you don’t you don’t follow the heroes you follow the comic book writers. Because the heroes get passed over to ten different, you know writers and there’s 30 million iterations of Spider-Man or whoever.

NG: I did notice that Jecka does kind of have like a subordinate role to Nicole which you know makes sense since Nicole’s the main character. But now that she’s kind of in the center is her approach to problems going to be different from Nicole?

SBN3: I would say yes. The difference is I guess Nicole deals with a lot less guilt when you play from her perspective, but in the Flip Side like the concept the concept of guilt and the concept of regret and the concept of appeasing people is more sort of a common theme.

Just because you know one character is self-proclaimed sociopath and the other character is more of a normal person who who might just want to have fun. So yeah, like we do play a lot more with the concept of like the emotions of the character has to deal with as opposed with everything else like with Nicole. You don’t really so much deal with her emotions, but you deal with her wild situations.

NG: That makes sense, yeah in the Re-Up for example, Jecka was a lot more reluctant to sell stolen coke

SBN3: Yeah, I mean so so you get how do I word it you definitely get more of a fish out of water thing to the world or if it’s just okay. I can’t even say if it’s it’s more relatable because more relatable to who you know?

I don’t I don’t know if Jecka is actually more relatable to people most people aren’t good-looking, right? So most people aren’t good-looking, you know most people I don’t know most people related with Nicole. And when we do polls on my Twitter or something like that through the official account, you know Nicole still wins out on on the fan polls by a little bit.

But she still does and I think it’s because you know, Nicole’s cruelty and like oh, I don’t care attitude. You know you get kids who are like ‘Oh, I’m literally Nicole’ like on Twitter and stuff like that. But then it’s interesting people get into the Class of ’09 Discord server and they talk about their problems, or like a random guy messages them in the Class of ’09 Discord. They tell us in the voice chat and we’re like, did you not learn anything from the first two Class of ’09? Why are you having trouble telling them to fuck off when the whole game was a crash course on telling people to fuck off and yet you’re here in the server about this game with this theme?

NG: And so with Jecka…

SBN3: Again, it depends. I think people will find Jecka more relatable because people want to be Nicole, but maybe more people are actually like Jecka where they’re more middle of the road.

NG: Speaking of the first two games, this was something I kind of noticed in the Re-Up that the original trailers were very sarcastic about being a visual novel, you know, it’s like the “rejection sim” and “this isn’t your mom’s VN”. Was Class of ’09 ever intended to be like a deconstruction of the visual novel genre?

SBN3: Honestly, no. Class of ’09 wasn’t really prioritizing deconstructing visual novels, but the reality is in marketing you have to say that you’re not like other visual novels because the majority of gamers do not want to play a visual novel do not want to touch a visual novel, regardless of what the psychological bubble of visual novel likers wants to say or believe.

The metrics show, you know, which games have done better, you know in terms of sales, you know Doki Literature Club has done great Doki Doki Literature Club it has done nothing compared to I don’t know like any Call of Duty release or something like that.

You know, it’s the same thing for Class of ’09. It’s the same thing for every other visual novel. Visual novels are not pulling in the attention and revenue that a call of duty would that a halo would that a you know, whatever would so it’s it is a niche genre, and so when you’re going into a niche genre you’re not trying to have niche numbers in terms of your sales figures because you got to turn a profit.

So basically, visual novels sort of like I said in our kickstarter video. Visual novels… you know that it was, I wanted to branch into video games because video games are a much more respected genre than youtube, which is what I was doing before and, you know, visual novel was the medium that I could afford. There’s other game ideas,that we have planned and that I will probably be going to but I can’t get into that right now. But yeah, like there’s other stuff I’m trying to do.

Now that we see that okay a video game will be profitable if we put up our money and we trust the process and so on and so forth. I mean I went to a visual novel because that was sort of like the lowest barrier of entry from a financial standpoint of making a video game and you know, I utilize that, you know, okay visual novel writing. I was going to do fully voice acted visual novels because a lot of fully voiced visual novels came out pretty bad usually when it was English language. So either the the mic quality like all the guys would sound normal and then like the girl’s voice acting would be like [random mumbling noises] like the quality would just be terrible

I I guess the one thing that we added which a lot of people said they hadn’t seen before in a visual novel was the sequential automatic playback where it played back like a movie.

We used to call it the rejection sim because it was sort of like it worked as clickbait on hio back when the demo dropped in October 2020. But now I’m more comfortable with calling it an interactive sitcom. I I think Class of ’09 pioneers the interactive sitcom and it doesn’t really have much at all to do with visual novels despite using Ren’py and having a lot of visual novel framework.

NG: I like that, ‘interactive sitcom’.

SBN3: Thank you

NG: So speaking of other ideas other media, the anime has almost four million views on YouTube. How are you feeling about that? Are there any plans in the future for animation with Class of ’09?

SBN3: So currently we’re over halfway done in production for the Class of ’09 11 minute anime pilot which got approved and greenlit on kickstarter and we got over a hundred thousand dollars in funding for that.

That’s chugging along. We’re we’re going to our various studios for all the stages of anime Genga, Doga, so on and so forth. Yeah, I would say the 11 minute anime is something to look forward to. It’s going to uphold a lot of that sitcom style that we like. There won’t be a life laugh track. Don’t worry

There won’t be anything like that because that’s the problem with sitcom is sitcom creates this like trigger reaction in people who are like under the age of 25 and they think it’s just going to be like Big Bang theory because that’s what their parents watch or Young Sheldon. I’m not sure if Young Sheldon has a laugh track, but I guess the point is is that we’re going to be following that that uh, that sitcom method.

Seinfeld is an influence not so much in terms of the the themes, maybe a little bit, but it’s a major influence in terms of plot structure. That’s what I got from Seinfeld when when making even the first Class of ’09 games. I said it was like a high school Seinfeld when I was first making the very very first one and we were casting back in like May of 2020.

That’s like sort of the the big animation project people can look forward to the Class of ’09 11 minute pilot.

NG: So, you mentioned earlier, about other side characters you were considering them at one point. If the Flip Side does well, would you consider doing more side character focused games?

SBN3: Games or visual novels?

NG: Sorry, visual novels.

SBN3: So as the steam description says this is the third and final installment for visual novel games in Class of ’09.

I’m just done with the medium because while visual novels, when successful, will definitely be more profitable than YouTube. They’re still like kind of the the bottom rung in terms of profitability and and you know growing the franchise because there’s only so many like seven hour gameplay videos we can survive if people sort of like pirating the game in a way, where people just go watch it on youtube for free and so that that cuts into a lot of sales.

If that wasn’t the case if, YouTube didn’t allow stuff like that our sales would probably be, I don’t know. They might be double what they are now. Who knows but, basically we have to focus on games with more actual gameplay elements.

Class of ’09 it’s very clearly like a non-video game when when you play through Class of ’09. There’s no puzzle sequence. There’s no oh ‘hit the buttons on time to make the character do this’ it’s none of that.

It speaks to sort of the the writing and the performances that we have in Class of ’09 how in terms of voice acting and and screenwriting, I think it’s something that people can learn from in terms of hey, you don’t need to be a super advanced game maker. You just need to know the raw form of entertainment and you need to know how to connect with people.

I think that’s what Class of ’09, as as a VN trilogy has shown, is you don’t really need to- and and that’s with any medium that could be uh stage that could be film that could be anything, as long as you understand performance and tone and pacing and you know how to write a story and you know how to tell a story that people are interested in. There’s really any medium that you can go into and see at least like a six out of ten reception.

NG: Yeah, the visual novel just sounds like a natural progression for somebody who has a background with writing.

SBN3: Yeah I I would say so. So what we did was I I guess it’s the ‘anti-visual novel’ in this sense is like… we would see people making visual novels, but they like they were making visual novels after learning from other visual novels or learning from anime or learning from whatever.

And again, I I came into the scene and I was like: Here’s film screenwriting. Here’s the writing that you know sold billions of dollars in advertising and and and sold dvds and sold all this stuff. So I took I took that flavor of writing that flavor of comedy writing and and I put it into the genre. Because before then… I mean it in a way it feels like Class of ’09 is not a deconstruction of visual novels but it’s a deconstruction of the deconstructive visual.

Where you know again you would have games where it’s like there’d be some like gimmick to get people to click on it and then it was like oh this game isn’t really funny past this gimmick. Oh, okay. Well, that’s the gimmick, okay game complete, you know, but but Class of ’09. It’s a quotable game and it’s a quotable game just like a tv show would be quotable.

That’s not that’s not me speaking out of arrogance. That’s look at TikTok go on Class of ’09, look at TikTok, look at all the quotes that are dubbed from that game by random OnlyFans girls. Class of ’09 has permeated the culture, you know, and that’s because of writing.

NG: Yeah, yeah, I can definitely see that. One thing I liked about Class of ’09 is that similar to how it’s not a deconstruction. It also doesn’t try to follow the same trends as visual novels.

Like you said, it’s more of an interactive sitcom. There’s something distinctly American about it. You get a lot of visual novels and they try to copy Japanese visual novels. They take place in a setting that’s kind of like japan, but they don’t outright say it.

So, do you think there’s a demand for… what I want to say ‘American-centric’ visual novel stories that Americans can relate to as opposed to the typical ‘weeb vn’ audience?

SBN3: Yeah, taking how Class of ’09 has done. I assume yeah, I guess there is a market for it, because people people like to feel… I think there’s there’s a need for people in media or a need from people of media to validate their experiences.

We’re overrun with escapism right now from all the Marvel movies to all the Star Wars movies to all the you know, Elden Rings and and Halo and this and that like.

People feel the escapism wave has just kind of like over bubbled. It feels like it like started really kicking off in like the mid 2010s, and I think a lot of people are tired of escapism.

People want to see media that connects with them despite having never met the the writer, never met the creator, never met whoever’s behind it, and that’s that that’s a novelty for people that has been lost.

So like, the most lowbrow example I can give of this is like in Family Guy where like… so I was a kid and I would always get the Fruite Stripes gum at CVS off the counter. Because it was the rainbow gum and: ‘oh rainbows are cool’.

I would chew it and I was like, ‘oh my god, this tastes amazing’. Then in 30 seconds that flavor is gone, and then ayear later what for years I would do that and then like in like 2006, 2005, something like that. I’m sitting in and watching Family Guy and then Peter goes: ‘This is a bigger letdown than Fruit Stripes gum’ and then he chews it and i’m like, ‘holy shit’.

How did they know how did they know that experience that I had? That is the biggest novelty in media. I don’t care. I don’t give a shit about explosions, I don’t give a shit about the the fighter anime girl. The number one biggest novelty in media is writers who connect with you despite not knowing that you even exist. That is the number one novel in media and that’s what we’ve lost over the last probably 20 years.

NG: Yeah, maybe that’s why I like Class of ’09 so much, I’m actually from the Northern Virginia area. So when you’re [the game] saying like ‘oh drive across drive down 95 to Woodbridge for cheaper gas’. I’m like: ‘I feel that’.

SBN3: Yeah, exactly. I mean that’s the other I thing that’s like another first for visual novels is like, a vn that’s centered around like just one metropolitan area like in America.

Maybe they’ve had it for like Tokyo or something in Japan, but in terms of America: no, I don’t think they’ve really had like something that. I mean they might say like oh, you know Natick Massachusetts or some shit, you know maybe like a random city. But no in terms of like authentically the culture and authentically like all the locations and all the restaurants and all the all the strip mall culture and and just everything…

Like Class of ’09, you know, there’s a lot of synonymous stuff with with the beltway area versus maybe I don’t know like the St. Louis area or something like that.

But yeah no, no visual novel or honestly game for that matter has really like championed a metropolitan culture quite like Class of ’09.

People look at that game and and if someone is from that area they become obsessed with it.

Given how many people, how densely populated that area is and how quickly it grew because the traffic is always terrible in the beltway, like that’s that’s evidence that it grew way too quickly. And the fact that there’s that many people, and it seems like there really isn’t any like media representation at all of that area versus a Brooklyn or versus a Los Angeles or something like that. It’s a major novelty to people from that area.

I’m sure the upcoming- I’m trying to think of the DC area, there’s like Otakon and there’s like uh, MAGfest. But basically like they go crazy there [and] like people say they see all the Class of ’09 cosplays there because it’s very rare that you have like like an area that a game is sort of dedicated to.

So I think that’s like sort of a breakthrough for for Class of ’09 as well, there were there were a couple classes on on cosplayers at a Otakon that we we caught wind of on like twitter and stuff like that.

NG: Kind of wrapping things up here. Is there anything you wanted to let us know about?

SBN3: Class of ’09 the Flip Side while it will not be as as sprawling with a bunch of fluff roots, Class of ’09 [the Flip Side] is going to go deeper and longer within its its five endings and within its narratives.

So people will look at five endings. They’ll think ‘oh, well, it’s it’s it’s not as much’. It’s not going to be as much as the first game. It’s longer than the first game. So yeah, it’s still going to be quite a bit to chew off, but it’s going to be a bit easier to navigate, definitely easier to navigate than the first game.

But the thing we’re really focusing on is now I mean at this point Class of ’09 has enough of an established fan base to where we can make something that will really appeal more to the average fan base, but maybe like a random guy who doesn’t know about Class of ’09 might not like the experience as much but I think that any of these three games someone can pick it up and they just they just see the characters and they see the language they use and they see what they talk about and they see the wild encounters they get into, and I I don’t think you need to know who Jeka is, you don’t need to know that Nicole’s father got, you know killed himself you don’t need to know these things to get enjoyment out of these games again, just like a sitcom.

You know very few people watched Seinfeld for the first time and started on season one episode one. Most people saw in the middle of you know season five episode 10 and they sat there and they took it in and and and that’s just a part of the skill of tv writing. Where the characters are just reestablished through like indirect means every single scene and that’s sort of what Class of ’09 does as well.

NG: I think that’s it for me and thanks for the insight on that, and thank you for your time and I’m looking forward to hearing more about the future projects the one you couldn’t tell us very much about after the visual novels.

SBN3: Oh that that’s gonna break the internet when that drops. It’s uh, you you might think like ‘oh he’s saying a bunch of dumb shit’ like ‘oh, yeah, right’. No even I’m like, I can’t even believe that we’re making what we’re making right now. So we’ll see it, it’s not a gacha game. Don’t worry. No, no, no cheap bullshit. We don’t do that here. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your interest in the upcoming title.

Class of ’09: The Flip Side is expected to release sometime this year on PC (via Steam). You can check out our review of the second game Class of ’09: The Re-Up here (we recommend it!)