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Gaijinworks Interview – How Victor Ireland and Crew are Localizing the Rarer Games

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We had the chance to sit down and chat with Victor Ireland, founder and president of Gaijinworks, at this year’s E3.

Before we jump into the interview, we have a message from Victor himself:

Without further ado, you can find our interview below:


Brandon Orselli: So we’re here with Victor Ireland from Gaijinworks, who some of you might know. For those who don’t, however, could you please introduce yourself, and talk a little about your work?

Victor Ireland: Well, I’m the president of Gaijinworks, and we’re essentially doing Working Designs pickup work. Just roleplaying games for fans, basically. We bring over the non-obvious choices for video games.

Brandon: Excellent! So, right now you guys are working on Summon Night 5 (editor’s note: featured above) and Class of Heroes 3. Could you talk a bit about how you guys got those licenses? How hard were they to acquire?

Victor: I’ll start with Class of Heroes. For a long time, I worked with John Greiner. He was TTi, Turbografx, and then he went to do Hudson Soft and Hudson Entertainment. We stayed in touch over the years and worked really well together, and so we decided to meet up again and start work on bringing over some PSX classics to PSN, since he knew I had the licenses from when I was at Working Designs.

And so, we were the first company to set up the Import Store on PSN. It started with us. After we ported over some kooky Japanese games from the past, he was like, “Why don’t we do some newer stuff?” So we started talking to Acquire, and they showed us their dungeon crawler. I’d never done one before, but it was cute and anime and had all the things Working Designs games were all about in the past. So we chose to bring over Class of Heroes 2.

Class of Heroes 1 was terrible, so bad. It was so lazily localized, Atlus did a terrible job with that.

Brandon: How so? It was that bad?

class of heroes 3 07-14-15-1

Class of Heroes 3

Victor: Yeah, they know they did. It was so lazy. I was seriously offended by how lazy it was.

We knew 2 was better, and 3 was even better―literally, Class of Heroes is one of the only games from Japan where each iteration was an improvement. Part of that is because one started so low. (Laughs) But by the time you get to 4 and 5, you’ll start getting some pretty good ratings. I’d say 2 and 3 are 7s and 8s out of 10.

Anyway, in Class of Heroes 1 they didn’t even translate the monster attacks―like, when a monster hits you and it’s all, “Boom, pow, biff,” or whatever? They left it all in Japanese! I was like, “C’mon guys…” Ours are all translated, because everything should be.

We really enjoyed doing Class of Heroes 2, though, and there was barely enough support to get the third game going. We do need to hit really modest targets when working on these kinds of games, since they take a huge amount of time to localize. It’s a huge investment. If we only sell a few copies here and there, it’s just not worth it. If Class of Heroes 3 doesn’t garner enough support, we’re just gonna stop and do something else, basically.

Summon Night 5 was a direct result, 100 percent, with the support we got on Class of Heroes 2, and the job we did with those games. I knew some people at Namco, and we got the deal started. Negotiations took forever to get done, and I thought it wouldn’t happen, so we kept stopping and starting our work on the game. Of the year and a half we had the game, we really only worked on it for about 4 months.

Once we got the contract, we had to rush to finish, but when it got done, we were pretty happy with the end result.

Brandon: Awesome. So, when Summon Night 5 comes out, do you think that’ll lead to more Bandai Namco localizations?

Victor: I’m hoping so! I really hope they see what we’re doing with the game and they like it. We’re doing the typical sort of Working Designs packaging, really giving it that A+ presentation our fans have come to expect. It is on the PSP, and we know the sales figures are going to be tiny, since the PSP is long dead in the US. But we think the hardcore fans will really get a kick out of it.

summon night 5 06-07-15-1

Summon Night 5

Cody Long: So, weird question, but I’ve heard that a few years ago, you were in some sort of guitar tournament, and you won?

Victor: (Laughs) Oh, that. That was Rocksmith actually! And it wasn’t really a tournament. Basically, you watched their show, and tweeted out something about it. It had to get almost nothing by way of responses, because I can’t believe I won. I was at E3 and got this call from a random number I almost ignored. They asked, “Did you enter the Rocksmith contest on Twitter?” I said yeah, and they told me I won. Which was pretty awesome, since I got an expensive Gibson guitar out of it. But it sucked at the same time because I had to carry it around all day and it was heavy.

Brandon: Now here’s an interesting question. Zach Meston―is he still working with you?

Victor: Nooooo. I can’t say a whole lot about that, but no. We had a pretty bad falling out. We had to get a restraining order to keep him quiet, because he was telling a lot of lies and just doing bad things after he was fired. And on the record, he was fired.

It was sad because he was a cool guy, and we were very symbiotic. He wrote very similarly to the way I write, so writing was a dream. But the less said about the ending, the better. It wasn’t good.

Brandon: Yikes. Well, moving on, Class of Heroes is a dungeon crawler. These seem to be getting more popular in the west as of late. Would you be interested in localizing more games of this type in the future?

Victor: I’m not against them, personally. But I’d like to do a variety of different types of games. It’s funny because dungeon crawlers actually started in the west, Wizardry and what-not. And now it seems like a more Japanese thing.

A lot of the bigger dungeon crawlers from Japan, like Demon Gaze (editor’s note: featured below), Etrian Odyssey, Elminage, etc, are based off of the Wizardry core. Some of them even have Wizardry code in them! It’s just strange how that came to be.

Cody: Definitely. Our writer Carl had a question actually, it’s about an obscure game called Serpent’s Kiss. Whatever happened to that?

Victor: Oh yeah, that was a PC game from Taiwan. It kinda just…went away. We weren’t really ready to do a PC game―the problem with PC at that time is that you had a gazillion different drivers and video modes. You had a ton of different flavors of Windows, too. It was too hard to make it compatible. We weren’t big enough to test everything thoroughly enough.

Cody: Think it’d ever be possible to bring a game like Serpent’s Kiss back? Or is it too far gone?

Victor: Nah, it’s too old now. That game is like 17 years old? I doubt it’s aged well.

Cody: Aww. Well, in Cosmic Fantasy 2, there was a steamy shower scene. Was there any kind of worry about backlash back then with that sort of thing?

Victor: Well, not for that in particular, but I was pretty naive back then. There’s this one part where Nova, one of the boss guys, attacks you. A text bubble pops up and is like, “Nova’s pissed!” And for me, I didn’t think anything about it. He’s pissed, he’s angry, he’s mad. It was just my vernacular.

But people really got upset that I used the word, “pissed,” in a game back then. By today’s standards, that’s nothing. Anyway, yeah, the only thing we ever -had- to change was when a character flips off a robot. We didn’t do that on our own though, we were mandated to do that by NEC.

Brandon: Well, coming off of that―what are your views on censorship? And even self-censorship.

criminal girls invite only 11-25-14-8

Victor: Situational. In general I’d give censorship a NO. But I’d also argue there are cases where self-censorship is probably appropriate. People get really upset when games, and especially hentai games, are censored. But there are some things you just cannot do in the US, they aren’t appropriate.

For example, and I’d love to do this one: THE [email protected]. Those are great games, but they have some stuff that I don’t think would fly here. Basically, it’s borderline pedophilia. Those scenes, like it or not, are gonna either be removed entirely or repurposed for something else.

Cody: I’ve actually worked with two games that were censored for the US release. Criminal Girls (editor’s note: featured above) was one of them.

Victor: I think Criminal Girls’ censorship was pretty justified, though. I mean, half those girls were underage, and you’re spankin’ them and stuff. I just think that sort of thing doesn’t work in the US.

Cody: The other was Starless. It was made by the same people who made Bible Black, I don’t know if you’re familiar.

Victor: Oh, yeah.

Cody: Some of the stuff they cut out included: Beastiality, scat, and “something getting cut off that isn’t supposed to get cut off.” I’m assuming they meant dongs.

Victor: Well, leave in the scat. You could just explain it away by saying they had too much Olestra and couldn’t control themselves. (Laughs) It was accidental!

The other two are pretty cut and dry though. Really, if you’re that much of a purist that you absolutely need those things, learn Japanese and import the game. We had people complaining about some of the stuff we cut out in other games to make them more culturally relevant to the US, too. For people wanting direct translations, I’m sorry, but you’re just not the market.

We’ve never been mainstream, but we still want to try to appeal to as many people as we can in the niche we’re already in. We need to make enough sales to keep going. And we do give 100% to the stuff we put out. Boxed physical releases with all kinds of cool stuff included are par for the course.

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Lunar: Silver Star Story

Brandon: Speaking of―there’s definitely a concern that games on legacy platforms like the PSP won’t sell very well. Do you think that factors into the games you decide to localize? Is there a balance between something that’s obscure and something that’s marketable?

Victor: The goal is to make our market as broad as possible in the niche we occupy. At Working Designs, we put up some pretty good sales numbers with games like Lunar. Where we’re at now is very niche, and we intend with successful releases to grow broader.

PSP is definitely dying out now, and within the next year will probably be dead. We’re really working to transition into the PS3, PS4, and Vita by then. A lot of people didn’t like Class of Heroes, but they bought it anyway just to support us with future releases. Those people directly helped Summon Night 5 happen. And that’s a big title!

Even if you’re not interested in some of the games we put out, buying them will definitely help us get to the next game. And it will definitely be games that other companies won’t touch.

Cody: Awesome. So, Working Designs had always been super huge when it comes to awesome physical releases. How do you feel about games shifting more toward digital only?

Victor: I HATE IT. I hate it. Hate it. I hate digital artbooks. I hate digital downloads for soundtracks. If it’s digital, it isn’t a soundtrack. It’s just a collection of MP3s on your hard drive. Call it, “mp3 download,” or something crappy, because it’s crappy! If it’s a real physical thing, and you rip it yourself, fantastic. But if it’s digital swag, or just a crummy costume in game, I hate that stuff. HATE IT.

It’s not a collectible. It’s just a marketing bullet point.

Cody: I see! Well, at Niche Gamer, we’ve been pretty wary as of late when it comes to pre-orders, and pre-order bonuses. You’ll get these things with your pre-order that are of, well, dubious value. How do you feel about that sort of thing?

Victor: Well, I can’t say I’m against it, because we do pre-sale, which is worse than pre-ordering. But the reason we do that is because we want to know exactly how many to make. I’m not really against pre-ordering as a whole, but I’m definitely against that Gamestop sort of practice where they only order as many copies as people have pre-ordered.

Like, how are you even in business if you’re not stocking titles?

Cody: Very good point. This one’s a fun question. I’ve heard you did some voice acting for a few things that Working Designs localized? Can you talk a bit about that?

Victor: Basically, I don’t do voice acting, as a rule. I’m kind of just a fill-in guy. We get to the end, realize there’s a part without voices, and I quickly just fill it in. Or, if we wanna do something funny for fans to find, we’ll do that.

I did the, “Hey hey,”s in the opening song for Lunar. I did one of the soldiers from Vasteel for the Turbografx. I also did a dog, but I can’t remember exactly what game that was in.

There were also the hidden tracks for the Turbografx games we put out, so that if you put it in your CD player, it wouldn’t blow your speakers out. I also put a hidden track on the PSX Lunar games, and the only way you could hear it was if you ripped the audio. What we did was, we made a voice track of me speaking, and I was doing this Satan voice. “He,” just said that he knew what you were doing, and that ripping mp3s was illegal, and he liked it and told you to keep doing it, because he’s Satan.

Cody: Were there any more secrets you hid in your games?

Victor: All I will say on that is that there are hidden things in some of our games that have never been found. Even today. As a gamer, I dig that kinda stuff. If we have time, I usually like to stick little easter eggs in.

I will tell you one. In Vay for the Sega CD, there were two animations that were never finished. They were half-finished with pencil. We put a secret room in the game, in the starting area. You have to enter a key sequence on the wall, which I don’t remember off-hand. However, once you do so, you unlock a media player where you can play all the animations in the game, including those.

Brandon: This is probably a tough question, but what would be your dream game to localize?

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Victor: I can’t say, because other people might want it too. I used to be very vocal about this sort of thing back when I worked in Working Designs, but I found out other companies would be taking notes. People who weren’t interested in certain obscure titles were suddenly very interested when I started talking about them.

I will say [email protected], though, and more specifically the newest one (editor’s note: [email protected]: All For One, which is featured above). I really don’t think anyone is gonna touch that game, considering the difficulty. But I think I have a way to make it work.

Brandon: Awesome. So, here’s a blast from the past for you. How was the culture when you worked at NEC America? They seemed really laid-back. Could you talk a bit more about that?

Victor: Well, there were two versions of NEC, one before and after the merger. Before the merger, they were laid-back to the point of incompetence. (Laughs) The second version was much more gamer-focused, but they were on a sinking ship, they were trying to plug the holes on the Titanic. I liked the second group better, since they were more about the games. The first group were just pencil-pushers, not gamers, and they just didn’t understand it, y’know?

Brandon: Definitely. So, here’s kind of an introspective question. It seems like the amount of Japanese games being localized since the PS2 era has kind of fallen off. There are a lot of games that have fallen through the cracks. Why do you think that is?

Victor: They dropped off the cliff about the same time anime became less popular in the US. Anime has really taken a dive, although it is starting to come back as far as popularity goes. I feel like it’s a cyclical thing, it’s popular and then it isn’t. Manga and anime were absolutely huge in the late 90s and early 2000s though.

Cody: On that note, I’m aware there were some games you were trying to bring to the PS2, but Sony was giving you a hard time. Can you talk a bit more about that?

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Growlanser II, half of Growlanser Generations

Victor: So, this is another thing I can’t say a whole lot about. But essentially, we got stonewalled. People at Sony now are like people at Sony back in the PSX era. They knew games, they were gamers, they were gamer-focused. Just fantastic. But around the PS2, into the early PS3 era, they became stuffed with those sort of corporate types that weren’t gamers. They were only interested in graphics and selling a lot of copies.

THQ’s The Cat in the Hat got approved, but games like Growlanser and Goemon did not. That makes no sense. There’s no comparison in regards to quality, none whatsoever. But we got stuck in this sort of morass where we tried to make them happy, and we were making these esoteric changes that made no sense from a gamer’s perspective.

And it killed the company. That’s why Working Designs died. We burnt too much money trying to get those games out, and we were paying two licensing fees for every game we sold, essentially. We couldn’t recoup the costs, and we shut down, simple as that. It was literally the worst experience of my entire life.

Brandon: Well, that’s definitely sad. I think we’ve got time for a few more questions, and then we’ll wrap things up. On a lighter note―what’s your favorite game that you’ve ever worked on?

Victor: Hmm. Probably Lunar 1, in both flavors, the Sega CD and PSX. I think Lunar is definitely my favorite, with Cosmic Fantasy being a close second. That was the first CD game we did, and it had a lot of nostalgia.

When we recorded Cosmic Fantasy, there was no digital editing. Our engineer Bill did a crazy amount of work on that. He would have to play the scene, start the recorder, and key in multiple tracks to layer them on top of one another. If it didn’t sync up when he played it back, he’d have to do it all over again until he got it right. He manually dropped in every layer for all those scenes. It was nuts.

People might not agree with my choices, but those are definitely the two that had the most nostalgia for me. I would love a chance to do an updated version of Cosmic Fantasy, though Sunsoft does have the rights to that one.

Brandon: One last question: To your fans, and potential fans, why should they support Summon Night 5 and Class of Heroes 3? What do you think your fans can look forward to in the future with Gaijinworks?

Victor: Well, even if you’re not interested in a dungeon crawler or a strategy RPG, if you help support us by buying them, it lets us get to that next level. Summon Night 5 happened directly because people supported Class of Heroes 2. Summon Night 5 and Class of Heroes 3 support will help us get to the next tier of RPGs that we’re trying to get the rights to.

We’ll also be able to move to broader platforms like the PS3, PS4, Vita, etc. It’s important to note that, being PSP games, Summon Night 5 and Class of Heroes 3 will be playable on the PS Vita. So if you have a Vita you can still play the games. But the goal is to get those games out and move on to the more recent consoles.

Brandon: Well, awesome. And thanks again for your time, Victor, it’s been a real pleasure chatting with you.


We’d like to thank Victor Ireland for spending time with us at E3 to chat about his upcoming games, Gaijinworks, and more.

Please make sure to check out Gaijinworks’ official website, as they’re still taking entries for the limited physical edition of Summon Night 5.

Niche Gamer regularly interviews developers on a variety of subjects—if you’re a developer and want to chat with us, please contact us!

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251 comments
  1. Audie Bakerson
    Audie Bakerson
    July 15, 2015 at 12:55 am

    The “censorship is OK is it’s pedophilla” thing makes me ill.

  2. OverlordZetta
    OverlordZetta
    July 15, 2015 at 12:58 am

    On one hand, I do agree that reaction to stuff like CG’s censorship was extremely overblown for how little was actually censored, and overall this was a an interesting read (can’t wait for Summon Night too, never thought I’d see the day), but on the other… [email protected] is pedophilia? Seriously? I mean… Are we talking about the same [email protected] here?

    Unless there’s something in the games that no one ever talks about and that two anime and some movies glossed over, I’m not sure I get that.

    Can’t say I’m big on another localization company throwing out the whole “people who want to enjoy these games and their writing as they were aren’t the market we’re selling to” line again either, but there are levels of that that can be fine. Shame it seems that there aren’t many localization companies that care so much about the original product and the fans who want it, though.

  3. ng mi
    ng mi
    July 15, 2015 at 1:27 am

    What’s the game serpent’s kiss? I can’t find this game.

  4. Firion Hope
    Firion Hope
    July 15, 2015 at 1:59 am

    Yeah after reading about their views on censorship I’m passing on them, fuck that. Especially self censorship, it’s one (shitty) thing when it’s mandated but I’ll never respect someone who thinks self censorship is okay.

    Also “just go learn Japanese and import if you want something close to the original product” is pretty damn disrespectful.

  5. The Bouke
    The Bouke
    July 15, 2015 at 2:08 am

    Question: When you are talking to someone with a considerably large posterior, do you take note and say, “Damn, you have a big ass! Can I get me summa dat?” out loud?

  6. Mr0303
    Mr0303
    July 15, 2015 at 2:10 am

    I really enjoy Mr Ireland’s views on digital bonuses.

    I try to understand his position on censorship, but it is difficult. I realize that they are a business and try to appeal to as many people as possible, but they are already in a niche market that wants the game in its purest form possible. No art should be censored, but perhaps they can adjust it so they keep the original meaning without signaling the usual outrage crowd. I really think that most people who will have a problem with the censored bits will not buy or wouldn’t have even heard of the game.

    With all that being said – best of work to Gaijinworks! We need more companies like that.

  7. PintSizedPurple
    PintSizedPurple
    July 15, 2015 at 2:12 am

    I don’t anything to do with them after reading their views on censorship, what a load of bologna.

  8. Ultim8_Alchemist
    Ultim8_Alchemist
    July 15, 2015 at 2:15 am

    I have to agree with you. I am glad there are companies now willing to localize games we wouldn’t otherwise be able to play without importing and learning Japanese. However, it would be nicer to keep as much of the original product intact without changing things drastically due to perceived cultural differences. Niche games will attract niche gamers, and this market wants the same gaming experience that Japanese gamers get. Making a niche game appeal to a broader market through censorship will just upset the target market. Would be interesting to see how games such as Moe Chronicle performed (Asian version with English, uncensored) vs Monster Monpiece (Censored US localised version). To see what people prefer in terms of localisation. Either way I am happy that we are getting access to games that were previously Japan only.

  9. Furluge
    Furluge
    July 15, 2015 at 2:28 am

    Anyone who is familiar with their work when they were Working Designs knows people getting worked up about censorship are missing the point. WD was hands down the best team of translators out there that did everything they could to bring out a top notch AAA product to the player.

    There’s a reason fans will practically follow Victor Ireland into the mouth of hell.

  10. Firion Hope
    Firion Hope
    July 15, 2015 at 2:31 am

    depends, might.

  11. Furluge
    Furluge
    July 15, 2015 at 2:31 am

    http://cbldf.org/manga/
    http://cbldf.org/criminal-prosecutions-of-manga/

    There is good reason for Victor to be cautious when it comes to that. Gaijinworks definitely can’t stay solvent while spending two years or so fighting a child pornography charge. Even if the laws are dumb regarding this, if it looks underage, and it could be construed sexually your at serious risk in the US and Canada of legal prosecution.

  12. amc99
    amc99
    July 15, 2015 at 2:33 am

    I like victor and I agree with most of his views other than the censorship, I mean in CG they even censor a girl who is a 20 years old and whatnot. If the reason they do it is because the art style is more in the loli direction, then by that logic Nisa should censor Etna from disgaea too since she look like a loli and wears a skimpy outfit… Right? RIGHT?

  13. landlock
    landlock
    July 15, 2015 at 2:34 am

    The guy is very level-headed and has been in the business a very long time and is very aware what is gonna to be OK and what needs to be censored to get a release. I reckon it’s a lot harder then you think to get some things by Sony.

  14. landlock
    landlock
    July 15, 2015 at 2:35 am

    I remember hearing Goemon on the PS2 was fully translated and ready to go. Shame the translation never found it’s way onto the internet.

  15. Furluge
    Furluge
    July 15, 2015 at 2:37 am

    http://cbldf.org/manga/
    http://cbldf.org/criminal-prosecutions-of-manga/

    There is good reason for Victor to be cautious when it comes to the subject matter he’s talking about. Gaijinworks definitely can’t stay solvent while spending two years or so fighting a child pornography charge. Even if the laws are dumb regarding this, if it looks underage, and it could be construed sexually your at serious risk in the US and Canada of legal prosecution.

    Victor’s got a good history of quality translation. If he can get it into the game he will.

  16. landlock
    landlock
    July 15, 2015 at 2:37 am

    You don’t spank Etna though and the girls in Idolmaster are in a much more realistic setting. Which doesn’t help.

  17. Furluge
    Furluge
    July 15, 2015 at 2:44 am

    http://cbldf.org/manga/
    http://cbldf.org/criminal-prosecutions-of-manga/

    They’re doing it because they have reason to be cautious. The laws the US and Canada have regarding this make make stated age not a reliable defense. Even if you defeat the charge you are looking at a huge chunk of cash to fight it. Just to give you an idea how much here’s a quote from the CBLDF’s note on the costs of the R v. Mattherson case.

    “In addition to substantive aid, CBLDF assisted Ryan’s case financially. Ryan’s total legal fees totaled $75,000. CBLDF has contributed $30,000 to those expenses to date, and our colleagues at Canada’s Comic Legends Legal Defense Fund contributed $11,000. We are currently fundraising to restore the final $34,000 Ryan was forced to spend defending himself against these outrageous charges. To help us, please make a donation.”

    The case went on for two years. I don’t know about you but I don’t think Gajinworks can survive losing $75,000 and having their business shuttered for two years.

  18. Mea K
    Mea K
    July 15, 2015 at 2:52 am

    “Censorship is justified.”
    [email protected] is borderline pedophilia.”
    “It’s my dream to localize [email protected]

    These three statements combined are somewhat worrying.

    Also, I’m no lawyer but if JAST USA can release a full-blown lolicon hentai game like Littlewitch Romanesque in the US completely uncensored, I would be shocked if [email protected] of all things could actually get someone in legal trouble.

    Shocked and depressed.

  19. Firion Hope
    Firion Hope
    July 15, 2015 at 2:54 am

    Loli pronz stuff has come out on PC officially in english and been fine. If it makes it past a ratings board and gets released to stores then it’s not their responsibility anymore. Stuff like bon appetit you can do incredibly lewd things to mirai and it released with no censorship. Feels more like an easy excuse to cut something the people TLing find objectionable.

  20. azariosays
    azariosays
    July 15, 2015 at 3:37 am

    Good interview. Although, I really think you should stay true to your views as a website. Someone calls a game pedofilia, a game that you went on record to say shouldn’t have been censored and they say it was “justified” and you don’t speak up. That really hurts your credit as journalists guys. I adore gaijin works games and will still support them, but this interview makes me wish you guys showed your stance on the issue a little more. I love those games and have fun playing with them, call me a pedofile and I will surely not brush it off like nothing.

  21. JackDandy
    JackDandy
    July 15, 2015 at 3:50 am

    Don’t agree at all with the self-censorship thing.

    Still, very interesting interview! But I have a feeling they’d do better if they worked more on PC games :P

  22. JackDandy
    JackDandy
    July 15, 2015 at 3:52 am

    Dunno about that. I disliked that stance as well, but this is an interview at the end of the day, not trying to change a dev’s mind.

    ” That really hurts your credit as journalists guys”

    Actually it’s the exact opposite. journos are supposed to remain generally objective, but doubly so when it comes to interviews. They should ask tough questions, but not start to attack the people they interview.

  23. azariosays
    azariosays
    July 15, 2015 at 3:58 am

    Where’s the follow up question? Brandon felt so strongly about criminal girls being censored and here it doesn’t show that at all. The guy just says it justified. There’s no “why do you think that?” Or “our site and its reading seemed to think differently about censorship, we believe…” And so on.

    So where do we stand? Are we for censorship or against it? I assumed nichgamer was the latter.

  24. dsadsada
    dsadsada
    July 15, 2015 at 3:59 am

    I disagree. I took offense as well to that comment and think that games shouldn’t receive censoring. Heck, I don’t even like scat and I think it should be kept in Starless because of the humiliation aspect of it. And as overblown and relatively minor as things like the Criminal Girls or Dungeon Travelers 2 censorship are, I’m still against them on principal alone.

    But I also don’t like when journalists try to push an agenda instead of simply getting the facts from their source. We know that most if not all of the writers on this are against censorship. Brandon himself at least has gone on record multiple times so we know where they stand. I’m frankly impressed that they stuck to the interview when they could have easily spoken against it.

  25. Choppinfoot
    Choppinfoot
    July 15, 2015 at 4:02 am

    Thanks for the interview, NG. I love quality articles like this, especially when they save me from wasting money on bad purchases, like this one.

  26. Antoinant
    Antoinant
    July 15, 2015 at 4:15 am

    I found it both hilarious and worrying that they seem to not be able to tell the difference between reality and fiction. It’s not like young manga/anime characters are actual depictions of real children too.

  27. dsadsada
    dsadsada
    July 15, 2015 at 4:16 am

    I’m sure people will continue disagreeing with you on some points but I want to be clear on something that I feel is true for many others as well.

    We don’t like censorship, that much is obvious. But when a company sends something in for a rating and are told to change something then some of us at least find that understandable. We’d curse the ratings board of course but wouldn’t bear any grudge towards the localization team because we feel that they tried to bring it over untouched.

    But if they decide to censor something prior to submission, that’s what ticks many of us off the most. Yes, we’re perfectly aware that getting a game rated costs a lot of money but as the consumers, we feel that it’s not our obligation to accept when the localizers preemptively censor something without confirming with the ratings board first, especially when we have examples like the Senran Kagura series that were brought over almost completely untouched.

  28. The Bouke
    The Bouke
    July 15, 2015 at 4:35 am

    Littlewitch Romanesque was also published on PC, with the adult version being limited to JAST’s webpage and the all-ages version being put up on steam, where the adult version certainly would have been ineligible to be.

    Without all the lewd, Littlewitch is just a cutesy dice rollan, resource building “whatever-the-fuck-you-call-it” game.

    Thanks to the platform and the relatively detached-from-gameplay h-scenes, Littlewitch was able to get a twofer release, but other games don’t have that luck.

    I don’t know shit about idolmaster, so I can’t really say much beyond the fact that what little I have seen falls squarely in my “weebie jeebies” zone, though I guess Japanese idol anything kind of lands there for me.

  29. JackDandy
    JackDandy
    July 15, 2015 at 4:37 am

    I don’t think there was a ever a verified case of a ratings board saying “change this”

  30. Rayxtr
    Rayxtr
    July 15, 2015 at 5:57 am

    Sorry but how is Idolmaster borderline pedophilia?

  31. Rayxtr
    Rayxtr
    July 15, 2015 at 5:58 am

    Just posting this one time was ore then enough instead of spamming it.

  32. Antoinant
    Antoinant
    July 15, 2015 at 6:28 am

    That’s the West for you

  33. landlock
    landlock
    July 15, 2015 at 6:46 am

    PC games don’t get rated I believe, especially the adult titles. EF I believe was the only one because Minori.

    I remember they’ve censored games in the past and so have MangaGamer.

  34. Zizal
    Zizal
    July 15, 2015 at 7:23 am

    I remember that I went to his forums after I bought COH2G and there was a topic about Criminal Girls and he was saying the game is for pedos or something like that. I think he hates fanservice games too. Just another censorship apologist. I regret that I bought COH2G.

  35. Brandon Orselli
    Brandon Orselli
    July 15, 2015 at 7:37 am

    Hey guys – I know both myself, our staff, and a large portion of our fans are against censorship – I think we’re getting a little bit off topic here though.

    It’s fine to talk about it – but I don’t think it’s fair to harp on it as much, mostly because I think those kinds of games aren’t the kind Gaijinworks/Victor will go after anyway (i.e., fanservice-y games).

    I think we can agree to disagree on these things, right? It’s a multi-faceted issue and while we’re 100% against it, we have to take each scenario in as they come.

  36. Furluge
    Furluge
    July 15, 2015 at 7:37 am

    They are three separate responses to three separate similar comments. The sources are repeated because it’s important for the context of the following statements. If you read you’ll see none of them is identical.

  37. buddyluv324
    buddyluv324
    July 15, 2015 at 7:54 am

    I think when it comes down to it, there are a good number of gamers that are into these sorts of niche titles that that want to be regarded as fully functional adults by the gaming companies releasing these titles. I see that people tend to get upset when someone within a company like Gaijinworks/Voctor tells their audience that a title like [email protected] is boarderline pedo material, which im going to disagree with that statement having tried a demo to IM2 and watched gameplay footage myself ( unless somone can prove otherwise). Its statements like that that can put game companies and gamers at odds with each other to say the least.

  38. Furluge
    Furluge
    July 15, 2015 at 7:57 am

    I’m not sure if you live in the USA or Canada so please forgive me if I retread things you already know, I’m just going over the issue in full just in case you are overseas.

    Unlike many other countries the ESRB that operates in the USA and Canada it’s not a government institution. That means that while they can’t ban games they can’t ensure then to be legal either.

    An ESRB rating won’t protect you from you from the stupid laws here and won’t hold up in a court of law. If you have loli type characters, especially if they’re flat chested, you could still likely face charges, ESRB rating or no, for producing a work like that, or even more frightening, owning a work like that.

  39. Carl B.
    Carl B.
    July 15, 2015 at 8:03 am

    Always wondered about the guitar thing (One of my questions I asked). That being said, awesome stuff. I was dying to read what he thought of the localization size of the hobby. To me, it seems only Xseed is waving that WD banner. Though I do miss those beautiful collector’s boxes coming standard.

  40. Matthew Brannock
    Matthew Brannock
    July 15, 2015 at 8:04 am

    I will not buy any gaijinworks games now

    censorship is never ok

  41. Furluge
    Furluge
    July 15, 2015 at 8:07 am

    Considering JASTUSA is founded by Peter Payne, who also runs J-List and JBox and is, I believe, a permanent resident of Japan, it’s likely the parent company there is in Japan. If things hit the fan and the government wants to make an example out of JASTUSA the senior management and a lot of their assets is likely safe. The San Diego staff might be screwed though.

  42. Furluge
    Furluge
    July 15, 2015 at 8:17 am

    Doesn’t make it safe, unfortunately. There is a reason you see places based in the US, like Hentai Foundry, having to have a “Loli purge” once they get a certain amount of popularity. Like it or not the way the laws in the US and Canada are written if you have “Loli pronz” you could be headed to jail or a lengthy lawsuit, all it takes is for some prosecutor to decide they would like to make an example out of you.

    It’s a lot easier for consumers to stay hidden, but it’s harder for companies since they have to register publicly for licenses, which can easily be denied even if the company doesn’t violate the law. If your company isn’t based in the US/Canada or management doesn’t live in the US/Canada then it’s pretty easy to distribute to people in the US/Canada via the internet, maybe have a satelite office in the US. If your base of operations is in the US, you’re playing with fire, and the more high profile, public, or money-making you are the more likely you are to become a target of either legal action or more likely threats of legal action being used to extort money.

  43. Nonscpo
    Nonscpo
    July 15, 2015 at 8:21 am

    From what I gather most people want to talk about censorship because of the way Victor used wishy washy language on the issue. Personally I don’t mind if he’s pro or anti censorship as long as he uses firm and clear language on where he stands on this issue. Not gonna lie, the way he commented on the Idol Master Series leaves me with my head scratching.

    P.S. Im probably more inclined to support there efforts in localizing Summon Night 5, given that I like the idea of UMD games still being sold. However I’m more interested in them localizing Vita games, as long as there not the heavy fan-service ones.

  44. Furluge
    Furluge
    July 15, 2015 at 8:43 am

    You know I never played [email protected] so I can’t say much, but given his specific wording he used…

    “For example, and I’d love to do this one: THE [email protected] Those
    are great games, but they have some stuff that I don’t think would fly
    here. Basically, it’s borderline pedophilia. Those scenes, like it or
    not, are gonna either be removed entirely or repurposed for something
    else.”

    It sounds like there’s specific scenes in the game that make things difficult. No idea specifically what though. Was looking through Sankaku Complex for their idolmaster entries to see if there might be a hint but.. wow there are a lot of entries there.

  45. Furluge
    Furluge
    July 15, 2015 at 8:49 am

    Unfortunately, since they are based in California, and their management is all in the US and not overseas, they have some good legal reasons to be wary of this particular reason.

    http://cbldf.org/manga/
    http://cbldf.org/criminal-prosecutions-of-manga/

    Doesn’t make it good but I’m not about to hate someone for not wanting to risk being a registered sex offender.

  46. dsadsada
    dsadsada
    July 15, 2015 at 8:56 am

    Actually I’m neither although I am somewhat aware of those laws. I find them silly when talking about fictional depictions but I’m not exactly in a real position to do anything about it. And since I’m not even American or Canadian or living in either country, I can’t even attempt to challenge them.

    Your logic makes sense though and it’s unfortunate that western laws, at least in some states, don’t differentiate fiction which harms no one with depictions of actual people which are actually damaging.

  47. Antoinant
    Antoinant
    July 15, 2015 at 8:58 am

    Never been a fan of UMDs, despite I’m a physical freak. Not to mention the UMD drive on the PSP was a noisy power hog.

  48. dsadsada
    dsadsada
    July 15, 2015 at 9:03 am

    Other than that many of the characters are underaged, I doubt there’s much else to it than that. So I suppose his issue stems from that alongside many of their performances in clothing like the one shown in the article above.

    Given that the idol culture in Japan is mostly like that though, I do question why he wants to localize it at all.

    Also, I wish people stopped mixing pedophilia with ephebophilia. I mean sure, they’re both creepy and illegal in real life but one has far, FAR less weight than the other.

  49. Furluge
    Furluge
    July 15, 2015 at 9:04 am

    The laws are absolutely fucking ridiculous and written in a way to be as vague a possible so no one can ever really say what is and is not safe. It is all just pandering so politicians and prosecutors can make themselves look good. No one but a few concerned groups will look at details and will just take their word for it that they are helping take child rapists off the streets.

    To put it into context how crazy things can get here though we have had people prosecuted in the US for Obscenity for producing some, admittedly very graphic, BDSM porn. We are talking all consenting adults involved with business licenses and everything.

  50. Furluge
    Furluge
    July 15, 2015 at 9:17 am

    Yeah except that Victor has been in this business for at least 25 years now. Working Designs started translating anime games for the Turbographx 16 CD. We are talking niche japan only anime focused titles, all before the anime boom that Pokemon brought to the US. They specialized in voice acting and vocals before most studios even realized that voice actors were important. You don’t do what they did at that time without being an enthusiast at some level. He’s familiar with all the tropes and tendencies enough to not be put off just by ages and outfits alone.

    Just doing a search my guess would be on bath scenes of some type.

  51. Narmy
    Narmy
    July 15, 2015 at 9:28 am

    I was going to get Summon Night 5, but I can’t in good conscience support any company that continues to propagate the idea that censorship of certain topics (usually loli) is okay. These kinds of people need to be weeded out of the gaming industry before they can cause any more damage.

  52. Steve Baltimore
    Steve Baltimore
    July 15, 2015 at 9:52 am

    Yep, they localized Cosmic Fantasy 2, which was censored for US release, and has a very liberal translation.

  53. Phil F.
    Phil F.
    July 15, 2015 at 10:24 am

    Well i’m buying 3 copies now, so you won’t be missed.

  54. OverlordZetta
    OverlordZetta
    July 15, 2015 at 10:44 am

    Honestly, I’m less concerned about the censorship of things like Monster Monpiece – those are much more cut and dry, regardless of what side you’re on – and infinitely more so concerned about how we’re seeing localization companies taking away or completely changing elements of Japanese games based on fairly flimsy logic, despite the fact that the things they’re changing or cutting out could certainly sell here, and it’s arguable that their changes are just hurting sales more than anything.

  55. OverlordZetta
    OverlordZetta
    July 15, 2015 at 10:46 am

    Honestly, I’m not as bothered about their comments about censorship (and frankly I think the community does need to look at the bigger picture sometimes), but their comments about [email protected] and localization really seem like the kind of things you’d see from a Western developer, not someone with an investment in Japanese games of any kind.

    When you have companies like IFI trashing their own games, their best selling ones at that, and then all this censorship stuff going on, these are just the sort of comments people will hone in on. Especially when a localization company is essentially saying “too bad, go play the original version and learn a new language.” That kind of thing can be a slap in the face to supporters of their products, especially to those who have been wanting these products in the first place. I do think it’s fair to consider outside audiences, certainly, but at the cost of the people who wanted the game enough for a localization to be worth considering in the first place?

  56. OverlordZetta
    OverlordZetta
    July 15, 2015 at 11:17 am

    The problem with the Senran Kagura example is that it’s usually being compared to something with a completely different context. I understand if you’re looking at it as simply “look, anime girls with less clothes!”, but developers and ratings boards have to look beyond that.

    In Senran Kagura, 99% of the cast can pass for “fully developed/grown anime girls,” especially when XSEED was cutting out the ages (and when Marvelous EU was removing subtitles from certain parts of the game). What’s more, basically all of the stripping and inappropriate stuff is a result of the characters fighting each other – a result of combat.

    Conversely, something like Criminal Girls features “young” looking anime characters where “you” are the one doing the inappropriate things to the girls, and those things go beyond fighting – you’re hitting them, punishing them, and so on. The player-interactivity aspect of it is a big part, and I think it’s one reason why we saw Monster Monpiece’s larger amount of content removal compared to that Dungeon Traveler game only having a few things altered slightly.

    Now admittedly, my response to the CG argument is to point out that the game DOES take place in hell, and a jail at that, so it’s not like the game doesn’t provide some level of context for it all, but even so, it’s not like Senran Kagura and Criminal Girls are two exact situations but treated differently – treatment aside, they are two different situations.

  57. dsadsada
    dsadsada
    July 15, 2015 at 12:08 pm

    Ehh, I see your point. I won’t argue.

    But just to rant, I still honestly don’t understand how removing the voices suddenly made it any better. Fog I can understand, and that it decreases with subsequent punishment scenes made it an ultimately pointless inclusion once you get to the end. That and because fog placement in some screenshots I saw just made it more lewd by making it look as if the girls were naked so it basically backfired.

    But removing the voices just sounds like it’s even creepier to me since I’d feel like I’m beating near unresponsive dolls that used to be people.

    Criminal Girls really felt like more of an all or nothing sort of game to me. Either that or the Mugen Souls route which would not only have been the worst, but that it also would have been impossible given how integral the punishment portions of the game were to progression.

    But Criminal Girls is a dead horse that’s been beaten too much now so I’ll just drop it here. Sorry for the rant.

  58. Crayll
    Crayll
    July 15, 2015 at 12:20 pm

    Well, guess I know which company I’ll never buy from. I understand that censorship is sometimes necessary to get a game released, but the combination of active self-censorship and stupid moralizing (liking fictional characters totally makes you a pedophile guise!) really annoy me. Good job further alienating your customer base, dudes! Keep chasing after that illusory market that just loves getting hackjob localizations of already niche games!

    The comments about [email protected] in particular put me off. As someone that’s watched both anime, played all the fan-translated games, and a fair bit of the untranslated ones as well, I’m floored by the ‘Basically, it’s borderline pedophilia.’ comment. I’ll readily admit that I could be wrong, but as far as I know there’s nothing of the sort in any of the games.

    In the end, censorship is sometimes an unavoidable reality. I get that. What I can’t fucking stand is the ‘I don’t like something, so I’m going to ‘fix’ it’ stance that localization companies often take. It’s outright disrespectful, both to the original creators, and those that might want to, y’know, actually play the game.

  59. Mike Nieto
    Mike Nieto
    July 15, 2015 at 12:40 pm

    It’s hard to make an opinion about his censorship statements because I honestly don’t have any experience with either Idolmasters or Criminal Girls. But we have to admit that it’s a very difficult issue that sometimes happens and some others don’t.

    Senran Kagura is also about high school girls, most likely underage and it’s a very sexualized game and yet, XSEED has managed to bring them over here untouch and including things like swearing (Ryoubi calls another girl a “fucking bitch” in Shinovi Versus). And that’s fine, I love it that way, in other cases, Criminal Girls and Dungeon Travelers 2 get censored for images that are somewhat similar in context, so it’s difficult. Maybe XSEED can localize without censoring somehow¿ I don’t know but it’s curious to me that even NEOGAF banned threads on Criminal Girls yet, the Kagura ones are very active.

    Anyway, to be 100% honest, I’m not interested at all in either SN5 or CoH3. I’m very glad someone is working on them because it seems like lots of people want them here but for me, the PSP is in the past and I’m not spending retail price on a PSP game now, considering the crazy amount of shit that’s coming to current-gen consoles.

    It was a nice and very interesting interview to read though. You guys are killing it here at Niche Gamer. Keep growing guys.

  60. Siveon
    Siveon
    July 15, 2015 at 1:41 pm

    Well, I like the guy. I always wanted to see the Summon Knight series in their natural light, and I love Class of Heroes 2. His views from Working Designs were very fascinating, as we never hear too much about the inner-inner workings.

    I personally don’t care for censorship, but I understand why companies do it, especially those that don’t have enough funds to have the ratings board see it again. We also have to remember that the ratings are done by people, so some things slip by while others don’t.

    Nothing is set in black and white, and taking an us-against-them stance to one of the few companies still localizing games (and willing to localize PSP games of all things) just isn’t a good idea in my mind.

  61. XiaomuArisu
    XiaomuArisu
    July 15, 2015 at 1:45 pm

    Never played [email protected]
    But pedophilla?
    Seems harsh

  62. TiamatNM
    TiamatNM
    July 15, 2015 at 2:04 pm

    That Growlanser screenshot isn’t from Generations it’s from Wayfarer of Time, which Working Designs did not do.

  63. blackice85
    blackice85
    July 15, 2015 at 2:25 pm

    “Also, I wish people stopped mixing pedophilia with ephebophilia. I mean sure, they’re both creepy and illegal in real life but one has far, FAR less weight than the other.”

    The thing is, and this is what people often miss, neither of these are illegal either. That just describes an attraction that somebody has. What’s illegal is rape and child abuse, regardless of where your actual preferences lie.

    That’s why it’s so important to fight against censorship, it’s edging towards thought-crime territory which is indeed scary.

  64. Phil F.
    Phil F.
    July 15, 2015 at 2:55 pm

    Exactly, i don’t know why his opinion on censorship even matters in this context, he doesn’t work on those kind of games, and quite possibly never will. He doesn’t self censor his own translations either, so there’s nothing to worry about.

  65. Brandon Orselli
    Brandon Orselli
    July 15, 2015 at 2:59 pm

    Ack! Fixed. That was an old/mislabeled SS.

  66. VWinds
    VWinds
    July 15, 2015 at 3:14 pm

    It’s interesting that he brought up Starless as a censorship deal, because JAST censored the game to get legally released with no issues…. and then abruptly after it was released ‘unoffically’ put a patch on the internet for buyers to download that restored 100% full uncensored content.

    So no, the game wasn’t censored.

  67. Aristides
    Aristides
    July 15, 2015 at 4:25 pm

    I have not played IM but from what I’ve heard the issue is with a groping minigame where the manager fondles the idols on their day off. This kills any commercial viability the game has, you just can’t publish a game with such expensive song licenses and cater to an ultra niche audience when the game can appeal to just about all Anime fans and become a successful series in the west. This isn’t part of the meat of the game so while in principle one can say it’s not good to cut off content you can’t help but think it’s better than having the series stay in Japan.

  68. Aristides
    Aristides
    July 15, 2015 at 4:29 pm

    Never played it but from what I read there’s a grouping minigame where the manager fondles the idols. It’s not part of the main gameplay though.

  69. Aristides
    Aristides
    July 15, 2015 at 4:32 pm

    (I’ve already posted this but to share what I know)

    “Never played it but from what I read there’s a grouping minigame where the manager fondles the idols. It’s not part of the main gameplay though.”

    The problem is not IM itself it’s some questionable content it has on the side.

  70. Firion Hope
    Firion Hope
    July 15, 2015 at 4:45 pm

    I’ve never heard of this actually happening to a company. And as stated some do release anyway. I don’t want to support a company that would rather censor then take (extremely small) risks.

  71. Mike Nieto
    Mike Nieto
    July 15, 2015 at 4:59 pm

    Is Criminal Girls even a good game¿ I watched some gameplay and it looks kinda boring. Anyone can recommend it¿

  72. Aristides
    Aristides
    July 15, 2015 at 5:27 pm

    …already posted this a few times, I haven’t played [email protected] and apparently neither has anyone here from what I’ve read (except Vic)

    The issue from what I understand is a grouping minigame where you get to fondle the idols. It’s not the whole “Vic said IM is SIN” , “Vic said IM needs to be white washed for western sensibilities!” interpretation people seem to be implying.

    The fact of the matter is that if this game does have a grouping minigame and all the girls are under age then yes… it is in fact pedophilia. Not that IM itself is pedophilia but that content in the game is tied to pedophilia. Now does this warrant censorship? Personally I don’t care if this stuff is or isn’t in the game, it’s not the reason why I would play the game (it’s an Idol sim game after all) and if you do care I really don’t judge you in the slightest, however I will say this:

    1) This game has very expensive licensing costs due to all the music, as much as we fans would get behind it and ultra niche fanbase cannot support this game. This series has the potential to appeal to Anime fans in general and because of a grouping minigame it would just not fly for lots of people.

    2) This is a Bandai Namco game, I highly doubt they would license the game to anyone with this content intact. They are a large company and a notable player in the industry, the last thing they want is lawsuits against them. Niche VN pubs freak out about content so imagine a major publisher.

    [email protected] is a series I would love to play but guys we have to accept (for those of us in the NA region) that the legal consent age here is not 13, some things tasteful of not will not fly in the broader market where high level productions such as these can thrive. I’m no fan of censorship but if the grouping needs to go then go it must. The truth is that to really get the 100% authentic experience we really do need to learn Japanese, as much as I hate fact our cultures are just too different to translate perfectly even for games that do get competent localizations.

    There’s no sense in flaming GW and Vic for having a realistic take in the situation and as unfortunate as it may be sometimes we have to step out of our comfort zone too. They do very niche productions and against all odds do physical copies for the fans (on dead systems even!). Boycotting them and slandering them will achieve nothing, they’re not SJW and they’re not trying to change the way games are played, they just want to bring awesome niche games to the west that we would otherwise never have. Can we really blame them for that? No one would touch IM with a 10 foot poll, there’s no harm in letting them try.

  73. Aristides
    Aristides
    July 15, 2015 at 5:29 pm

    Please read my main post, it may provide some context that’s not immediately apparent.

  74. Aristides
    Aristides
    July 15, 2015 at 5:37 pm

    Really you misunderstand their stance, the interview provides little context to this though. Please read my main post it may change your mind, SN5 is gonna be awesome and GW is a great company, we need all the help we can get supporting companies that stick their neck out for niche titles.

  75. Firion Hope
    Firion Hope
    July 15, 2015 at 5:38 pm

    So you mean basically what you can already do to mirai and kofuru in Senran and basically the same thing in Monpiece/Criminal Girls despite the pointless censorship?

    Also you’re just guessing that more people would get offended by the minigame and decide to not buy it for that than would get angry at censorship. Just like localizers do. There’s a lot of diehard [email protected] fans who would be upset with chunks of stuff cut out of the game.

  76. Kiryu
    Kiryu
    July 15, 2015 at 5:46 pm

    I would like to know from these hypocrites if enjoying Call of Duty makes you an ISIS supporter or playing GTA V makes you a criminal,would be curious about their answer.
    I have to facepalm everytime at these moralists,they are really not the brightest ones.

  77. Aristides
    Aristides
    July 15, 2015 at 5:47 pm

    There’s no way to please everyone, as pointless as it may seem my post is meant to encourage to look the other way. As much as we hate censorship sometimes we’re between the knife and the wall. If a series like this is to be successful in the west some empathy from our part is needed, unlike games like MonMon and CG the stuff cut is just side stuff and nothing from the main game itself. That doesn’t make it all good but we can live with that and as much as it sucks the truth is that most people just wouldn’t get to play this series otherwise.

  78. Aristides
    Aristides
    July 15, 2015 at 5:53 pm

    A tad bit too prejudice don’t you think? Crying wolf at some off hand comments on the forums is no different than when the moral police starts talking nonsense without facts. There’s a lot more to GW and Vic’s views on games than just two random forum posts taken with little context.

  79. ThePringus
    ThePringus
    July 15, 2015 at 6:02 pm

    Was it a Les Paul? Cuz if not I doubt it was a heavy Gibson

  80. Kiryu
    Kiryu
    July 15, 2015 at 6:21 pm

    The Western hypocrisy is always hilarious.

  81. DividedSeraph
    DividedSeraph
    July 15, 2015 at 6:52 pm

    He’s doing the industry a favor. Fanservice games are garbage, and we can do better.

  82. DividedSeraph
    DividedSeraph
    July 15, 2015 at 6:53 pm

    Why do you think those topics should be CONSIDERED okay? It’s inappropriate, full stop. Especially for a US audience.

  83. DividedSeraph
    DividedSeraph
    July 15, 2015 at 6:54 pm

    It’s not like this is censoring high art. These are pandering, trashy mini-games aimed at the lowest common denominator. No one gave a damn when actual story-driven content got removed from Innocent Sin PSP.

  84. Matthew Brannock
    Matthew Brannock
    July 15, 2015 at 7:15 pm

    xseed is also in California. but somehow they are still in business

  85. Thanatos2k
    Thanatos2k
    July 15, 2015 at 7:42 pm

    Always liked Ireland. Reasonable and rational, and knows his shit.

    People hating on him for censorship is insane, because he knows the kind that is and isn’t acceptable. He KNOWS certain stuff like underage shit DOES. NOT. FLY. and the sooner the rest of you accept it the sooner that knot in your brain will unravel.

    His revulsion to digital (and thus by proxy, PC games/ports) is a bit curious. He may not have noticed, but even Japan is heading that way. He’d be wise to hitch his games to that wagon if he wants more money. Steam is definitely a good place to get it.

  86. Thanatos2k
    Thanatos2k
    July 15, 2015 at 7:42 pm

    It makes me like him even more, because he’s right.

  87. Thanatos2k
    Thanatos2k
    July 15, 2015 at 7:44 pm

    It’s also the right answer. That shit will NEVER fly. NEVER.

    Ireland is not an idiot, I don’t understand why that makes people mad at him.

  88. Thanatos2k
    Thanatos2k
    July 15, 2015 at 7:46 pm

    It shows he doesn’t like the policies in place, but that he’s also not stupid.

    Absolutely not a contradiction.

  89. Thanatos2k
    Thanatos2k
    July 15, 2015 at 7:48 pm

    You’re still sick even if you never abuse a child. Absolutely.

  90. Thanatos2k
    Thanatos2k
    July 15, 2015 at 7:49 pm

    Grow up and step into the real world.

  91. Thanatos2k
    Thanatos2k
    July 15, 2015 at 7:50 pm

    They’ve also censored stuff. Never buying an XSeed game again?

  92. Thanatos2k
    Thanatos2k
    July 15, 2015 at 7:50 pm

    I think the people who think loli is ok are the ones that need to be weeded out, because they are damaged.

  93. Thanatos2k
    Thanatos2k
    July 15, 2015 at 7:52 pm

    It was still censored. They absolutely had to censored the version of the game they sold. There are many games on Steam that go this “release censored product but offer patch off-site to restore content” route too, but still – the content untouched does not fly in a sold product.

    Since Ireland works on console games, this is never an option. It’s really only possible on PC.

  94. Crayll
    Crayll
    July 15, 2015 at 7:56 pm

    You’re being pretty disingenuous here, though probably not intentionally. An important part of the game, keeping your idols happy and performing well, is done through choice-driven dialogue sections: choose the right dialogue option, get a better outcome. A few of these scenes have sub-sections where you need to touch them in a specific spot: for example, to apply makeup: https://youtu.be/Rk9kEGaE-84?t=6m54s (not my footage, by the way). Yes, you have the option to touch their breasts, but it isn’t particularly sexual and just results in them getting mad at you and a bad result. Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3k1TbWIRBvE

    Personally, I find it hard to call that a fondling minigame.

  95. landlock
    landlock
    July 15, 2015 at 8:05 pm

    Nothing he said wasn’t true even if you don’t like it.

  96. landlock
    landlock
    July 15, 2015 at 8:07 pm

    There is good and there is bad, just like with non-fanservice games.

  97. landlock
    landlock
    July 15, 2015 at 8:11 pm

    I take it you don’t buy games from NISA, Atlus, Aksys Games, Marvelous Ent, Konami, Capcom, Idea Factory etc either then since they’ve all censored.

  98. landlock
    landlock
    July 15, 2015 at 8:13 pm

    Unfortunately I don’t think you’ve ever gotten to play the terrorists in a Call Of Duty game. Now that would be a new spin.

  99. Crayll
    Crayll
    July 15, 2015 at 8:28 pm

    If you’ll reread my post, I understand that censorship is sometimes necessary. My issue was more with the moralizing and outright false statements.

    And no, I generally don’t buy anything from Atlus (lack of dual audio is a deal breaker), and certainly not from a company as genuinely awful as NISA. I can put up with the rest, though.

  100. matty
    matty
    July 15, 2015 at 8:38 pm

    Not really a groping mini game, but there are parts in the communication moments where you have to pat the character’s head or give a high-five. Since you use a cruiser icon to touch their head, hand, etc. you can also hover their breasts and get a reaction. Considering the characters are as young as 12, yeah, that could turn some heads, but if Vic seems like he has ideas that could make localizing Imas possible, I think that feature will be removed from the game entirely — which is fine ’cause it’s such a minor, non-relevant part of the game. Just adjust the communication points so it doesn’t break the game and it’ll be right as rain.

  101. Aristides
    Aristides
    July 15, 2015 at 8:59 pm

    I have not played the game so I honestly do not know how the minigame itself looks like, assuming the video you posted is the full extent of such then you are right one can hardly call it a “fondling minigame” i apologize if my semantics were out of place.

    Despite this however I’ve continued following up on the issue. Based on comments from Vic himself (whom has played through the game multiple times and which is why he’s considering it for localization) the minigame in question won’t fly with publishing the game in NA (from what I can understand the ability to touch their breasts). According to him aside from the fact he wouldn’t leave it in Sony themselves won’t allow it. It’s viewed as inappropriate that you can touch a little girl’s breasts in a game like this. He can’t change that, not without cuts.

    In any case if that is what it is then the whole censorship debacle here is immensely overblown even farther than I myself expected, the game looses practically nothing if you can’t click on breasts considering the feature itself does nothing… (not even visual stimulation)

  102. Crayll
    Crayll
    July 15, 2015 at 9:09 pm

    Oh, censorship wasn’t even the issue for me, honestly. As I’ve said below, it was the ‘Basically, it’s borderline pedophilia.’ statement that put me off, as well as the hand-wringing over fictional characters.

    (Also, not terribly important, but pedophilia refers specifically to prepubescent children – all of the girls in [email protected] are 13 or older – not that pedophilia has anything to do with purely fictional characters, of course)

  103. Furluge
    Furluge
    July 15, 2015 at 9:12 pm

    You beat me too it. Also XSEED is just a child company of Marvelous, whose HQ is in *drumroll* Tokyo, Japan. I’m not going to go into the long version but XSEED, owned by a huge overseas corp is in a safer position to take risks in this regard than a small US based studio is.

  104. Furluge
    Furluge
    July 15, 2015 at 9:23 pm

    You also hadn’t heard about people going to jail for owning “loli pronz” either before I pointed it out. :) The prosecution for this stuff is going up, not down, just ask anyone who hosts any sites that tend to have that content uploaded to them.

  105. Furluge
    Furluge
    July 15, 2015 at 9:26 pm

    How does that silly little mosiac over genitals in erotic material made in Japan make it any better? It doesn’t, but generally these censorship bureaucrat types want you to jump through hoops and kiss the ring so they leave you alone.

    It’s almost never actually about changing anything.

  106. Furluge
    Furluge
    July 15, 2015 at 9:32 pm

    Didn’t have a TG16, but I’ve heard nothing but praise for their translations of Vay, Popful Mail, Lunar 1&2 on SCD and PSX and Arc the Lad.

  107. Furluge
    Furluge
    July 15, 2015 at 9:34 pm

    Thanks for explaining, that sounds like it’s the reason.

  108. dsadsada
    dsadsada
    July 15, 2015 at 9:54 pm

    But we have gotten to play as terrorists in Counter Strike.

  109. dsadsada
    dsadsada
    July 15, 2015 at 10:12 pm

    But at least the mosaic doesn’t make it worse the way the fog and removed voices did as I explained above.

  110. Furluge
    Furluge
    July 15, 2015 at 10:13 pm

    Fog and mosaic’s are about the same IMHO. Removed voices, well, hoops and kissing the ring.

  111. TheCynicalReaper
    TheCynicalReaper
    July 15, 2015 at 10:22 pm

    Very nice article. Really got me interested in this whole thing

  112. Furluge
    Furluge
    July 15, 2015 at 10:24 pm

    I think they would just be happier if Victor had lied to them rather than being honest. Maybe he should have just said…

    “Oh yeah gaiz we can totes release this thing with the bit about groping the 11 year olds in it no probs. Like the ESRB is totally cool with it and Obama sent me a letter saying he wouldn’t throw me in jail for distribution of Child Pornography!”

  113. Furluge
    Furluge
    July 15, 2015 at 10:40 pm

    Except he isn’t saying that. Specifically he’s saying this…

    “For example, and I’d love to do this one: THE [email protected] Those are great games, but they have some stuff that I don’t think would fly here. Basically, it’s borderline pedophilia. Those scenes, like it or not, are gonna either be removed entirely or repurposed for something else.”

    If what you say, that Victor was saying your a pedophile for liking [email protected], was true then Victor would be calling himself a pedophile because he himself already likes the game. He’s just admitting there is “some stuff” that he simply can’t bring over.

    Looking into it he appears to be talking about some dialogue scenes where you are supposed to talk to the idols on their days off and you can target them and, well, if you target their breasts you get a reaction.

    http://nichegamer.com/2015/07/gaijinworks-interview-how-victor-ireland-and-crew-are-localizing-the-rarer-games/#comment-2138439254

    That’s it, that’s what you’re crucifying the man for, admitting that as much as he loves the source material he can’t keep the part about groping 11-12 year olds in. -.-

  114. Fenrir007
    Fenrir007
    July 15, 2015 at 10:49 pm

    I’m fine with people thinking that.

    I draw the line at people who think that but still will localize a fanservice-heavy game, only to butcher it in the end. Not saying its the case.

  115. Fenrir007
    Fenrir007
    July 15, 2015 at 10:52 pm

    Few have been prosecuted for possession of certain types of material, which is completely irrelevant in a post-digital game world. Our digital games are completely safe.

  116. Fenrir007
    Fenrir007
    July 15, 2015 at 10:53 pm

    I really, really, really hope you will never, ever, EVER get your hands on [email protected]

    Let someone who won’t butcher it do it instead. Or better yet, don’t localize it and let’s just keep waiting for some fan translation, instead, like they did with the PSP titles.

    Personally, I think that if you are that against the content of any given game, then just leave it to someone else to localize it instead.

  117. Furluge
    Furluge
    July 15, 2015 at 10:54 pm

    Yeah, and matty was kind enough to find a video. It’s just a minor part where you can touch their breasts during some dialogue. It’s really minor but yes I can see why he would feel they need to cut it. Remember, the man specifically mention he loves the game. He’s just telling you straight what he would have to cut. They’re a US based company releasing titles on consoles. They don’t have the benefit of having overseas parent companies or being based outside the US and distributing things via internet to the US and Canada.

    https://www.youtube.com/embed/CcEXaaUd6Dw

  118. Furluge
    Furluge
    July 15, 2015 at 10:55 pm

    He’s not against the content, he specifically mentions he loves the game, he just can’t legally keep something like this in the game.

    I’m not quite sure that removing the boob groping part is what I’d call butchering.

    https://www.youtube.com/embed/CcEXaaUd6Dw

  119. Fenrir007
    Fenrir007
    July 15, 2015 at 10:57 pm

    The biggest problem is that [email protected] is definitely not a fanservice heavy game. It’s actually very light on it. This is why I think it would not be unfeasible for him to go after it, especially since he likes the game so much.

    Now, this would be a constly endeavour, so at least in this regard I think we are all safe. Besides, the licensing issues on the songs and VAs, as well as the overt dependence of the series on the memorabilia that is sold alongside it makes it a very unlikely candidate to being localized by anyone in the first place.

  120. Fenrir007
    Fenrir007
    July 15, 2015 at 10:59 pm

    It’s the pai touch. That’s it.

  121. Furluge
    Furluge
    July 15, 2015 at 10:59 pm

    A US based company without a parent company overseas faces a lot more risk than the end user keeping lolicon on their PC. All it takes is a bureaucrat to refuse to renew their business license to finish them, doesn’t even need to make it to trial.

  122. Fenrir007
    Fenrir007
    July 15, 2015 at 11:00 pm

    All accounts are based on possession of physical goods.

    They can release this in a digital-only format and skip the bullshit entirely.

  123. Fenrir007
    Fenrir007
    July 15, 2015 at 11:01 pm

    ” That shit will NEVER fly. NEVER.”

    People thought that about Visual Novels in the west in the past, and look where we are now.

  124. Fenrir007
    Fenrir007
    July 15, 2015 at 11:03 pm

    >All it takes is a bureaucrat to refuse to renew their business license

    Not sure about the USA, but there are very strict and objective guidelines that govern the issuing of business permits in my turd world country. Surely it would be the same over there?

  125. Fenrir007
    Fenrir007
    July 15, 2015 at 11:05 pm

    He is against a portion of the content, as small as it might be. A localizer’s job is not to determine the morality of the artwork in question, but to make it understandable to another country while staying as close as possible to the original work.

  126. Fenrir007
    Fenrir007
    July 15, 2015 at 11:08 pm

    And I think people who equate a drawing to a real life kid is a potential danger to society, as these people seem to be unable to separate fiction from reality.

  127. Fenrir007
    Fenrir007
    July 15, 2015 at 11:09 pm

    Have you even SEEN what is considered pedophilia by him…?

  128. Fenrir007
    Fenrir007
    July 15, 2015 at 11:10 pm

    “It was still censored.”

    The relevant part is that the consumer still has access to the uncensored content in a very simple manner. The rest is arguing semantics.

  129. Zach Meston
    Zach Meston
    July 15, 2015 at 11:17 pm

    It makes me sad that, nearly 15 years after my last contact with him, Victor continues to slander me at every opportunity. Unfortunate and pathetic.

  130. Furluge
    Furluge
    July 15, 2015 at 11:22 pm

    So I already mentioned this briefly in a reply to your reply but I’ll repeat it here. JASTUSA is in a completely different boat that Gajinworks is in this regard. (Same goes for XSEED.)

    Gajinworks is a small US based studio. If things go bad the leadership and owners are all living right in the US making them easy to prosecute or simply revoke their business licenses and seize their assets, freeze bank accounts, etc.

    JASTUSA meanwhile is founded by Peter Payne, the founder of Jlist and JBox, he’s a permanent resident of Japan. (And he has an excellent mailing list that’s turned into a blog once they came into existence.) Their parent company, Japan System Techniques Co. Ltd. is based in Tokyo. Most of the leadership and big assets is not within easy reach of the US prosecution. If they take away their San Diego office’s business license they’d just move assets back to Japan and continue on like nothing happened.

    XSEED is a child company of Marvelous, which is based in Tokyo. They’re in a similar situation.

    TL;DR: Being from another country than the censors and having piles of money backing you up makes it easier to take risks like this.

  131. Furluge
    Furluge
    July 15, 2015 at 11:38 pm

    Nope, and it probably isn’t as strict and objective where you live as you think either. :) Even if there are rules and regs they people who would enforce them are the same people committing the violation in the first place, so there isn’t exactly much in the way of accountability. It’s very easy for an agency or department to spin things to get what they want, and when it comes to anything requiring a license to do, threatening to revoke it is usually the goto response. Even if you are in the right you still have to pay for the court case to get your license back and do without it for the years it takes to conclude your case.

  132. Furluge
    Furluge
    July 15, 2015 at 11:40 pm

    Thank you for digging this up.

  133. dsadsada
    dsadsada
    July 15, 2015 at 11:46 pm

    Not really. Fog over a part that’s covered by clothing anyway makes it look as if there is no clothing. Mosaic, you already know what’s there anyway otherwise it wouldn’t be there. Except for comedic purposes i.e. badly made food that a protagonist is forced to eat out of courtesy.

    Bear in mind, this is specifically with regards to CG’s use of fog. In general, fog really doesn’t do anything different than mosaic like in hot spring scenes, which I believe is closer to the kind of situations you’re thinking of.

    I have no idea what you mean by hoops and kissing the ring though. Never heard that expression before.

  134. Furluge
    Furluge
    July 15, 2015 at 11:47 pm

    You missed the last case on CBLDF.org. R. v. Matheson was for an image on a laptop. 2 year legal battle and $75,000 in legal fees.

    Issuing a warrant and seizing the computers at Gajinworks would be child’s play.

  135. Furluge
    Furluge
    July 15, 2015 at 11:53 pm

    >>(Also, not terribly important, but pedophilia refers specifically to prepubescent children – all of the girls in [email protected] are 13 or older – not that pedophilia has anything to do with purely fictional characters, of course)

    Sadly, legally, the US and Canada don’t see it that way. Prosecutions for drawings of characters under the age of 18 do occur, and it’s pretty much impossible for a business to hide the way an end user does.

    http://cbldf.org/manga/
    http://cbldf.org/criminal-prosecutions-of-manga/

    Also, specifically what Victor Ireland is worried about is probably what happens when you target their breasts in the dialogue parts. I don’t think I’d call it a groping minigame either but I can also see why they might have to cut it, especially on a console.

    https://www.youtube.com/embed/CcEXaaUd6Dw

  136. Firion Hope
    Firion Hope
    July 15, 2015 at 11:56 pm

    Err yeah I had. It’s extremely rare though. Just like some people have been busted for jaywlaking or illegally downloading music.

  137. Furluge
    Furluge
    July 16, 2015 at 12:05 am

    “Jumping through hoops” and “Kissing the ring” are two idioms here. Basically I am saying they are having to do extra pointless things they don’t want to do to show obedience to a higher authority (Government) to avoid retribution.

    And as far as fog vs mosaics goes, we’re getting into preferences here. Generally though you started seeing censorship in the form of fog, shafts of light, or conveniently placed objects or hair specifically because a lot of people think mosaics look ugly. :)

    I’m don’t care for any of it mind you, I just am not going to pretend it doesn’t exist.

  138. Fenrir007
    Fenrir007
    July 16, 2015 at 12:05 am

    Since I’m a firm believer of the “Verify, Then Trust” motto, I decided to check out one of these cases from the website you linked to see if it holds up.

    I chose the USA vs. Whorley, and it seems the case is not as simple as they are depicting in that website.

    Apparently, Whorley was on probation in connection with a previous federal conviction for downloading child pornography on a Virginia Commonwealth University computer in 1999.

    In this case, amongst the hentai manga, it seems like he was also in possession of actual child pornography:

    “In addition, the grand jury charged Whorley in Counts 41-55 with knowingly receiving, on March 11 and 12, 2004, 15 visual depictions of minors engaging in sexually explicit conduct, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 2252(a)(2).   These counts were based on lascivious photographs of actual, naked children.”

    “The court also noted Whorley’s repeated failure to abide by the terms of supervised release from his prior conviction, including continuing to access computers without the probation officer’s approval, numerous false statements concerning attempts to obtain employment, failure to obtain employment, failure to report to the Department of Rehabilitation Services, failure to report to the Offender Aid and Restoration Program, and most disturbingly, his presence at local malls and public libraries frequented by children in direct disobedience of his probation officer’s instructions.”

    This is a more vivid description of his previous arrest:

    “Whorley was first arrested in December 1998 for receiving and distributing visual depictions of minors engaging in sexually explicit conduct.   Over the period of several weeks, Whorley had been receiving and sending pictures, using computers at the Virginia Commonwealth University, that depicted 9 or 10-year-old females having sexual intercourse and performing other sexual acts with males approximately 25 to 30 years old.   Upon his arrest, police seized extensive amounts of child pornography, as well as books related to child abuse prevention, incest, and children killing or being killed, including horror stories of children’s deaths;  medical evaluations of preteen patients;  and e-mails related to child pornography.   Whorley was sentenced to 46 months’ imprisonment.”

    It also seems like all of his charges – save for the photographs of actual children – would not be applicable had he not been at work:

    “Here, Whorley argues that 18 U.S.C. § 1462 is facially unconstitutional because it is overbroad, vague, and violates the First Amendment.   His arguments must fail.   Whorley’s claim that the statute is overbroad and might chill otherwise protected speech, is disconcerting because the locus of Whorley’s activity-i.e., his place of work-played a significant role in the criminalization of his activities.   Indeed, excepting the digital pictures of the actual children, Whorley could have possessed hard copies of the cartoons and e-mails in his home without any fear of conviction under § 1462 because the materials only portrayed and discussed fictional children.   Nevertheless, because Stanley’s holding is limited to the confines of one’s home, I reject Whorley’s contention that he is entitled to view obscenity in the workplace for the reasons articulated in the majority opinion.  (See Maj. Op. 331-33.)   And while determining when a person surfing the internet “receives” an image or document is not without its difficulties, a point not lost on the majority (See Maj. Op. 334), I agree that Whorley’s vagueness argument must also fail.”

    Some relevant jurisprudence:

    https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/413/139/case.html
    https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/394/557/case.html

    The Last phrase in the website you linked is telling:

    “Whorley was sentenced under the same guidelines governing actual child pornography.”

    But the thing is – he had ACTUAL child pornography with him, as well as hentai manga. And he had a prior arrest that got him on probation for child pornography.

    The way I see it, the website is not presenting all the facts, since it would be detrimental to their fearmongering. This casts a shadow of doubt on their other claims, which I won’t verify because its late as hell.

    I am all for “decriminalizing” (if it is even criminal) art, but not to the point of manufacturing proof.

  139. Holyfox25
    Holyfox25
    July 16, 2015 at 12:05 am

    Head-scratching comment about Idolmaster aside: this was a great interview. Ireland always been a cool guy and I feel that he loves what he does. Lunar 1 and 2 (on PSX) were a huge part of my high-school years. Shame there was never a Lunar 3.

  140. Aristides
    Aristides
    July 16, 2015 at 12:07 am

    They won’t have that in the west, Sony won’t allow the game to be released with said content. It’s a sim game and the content is too questionable, Vic already made that clear on the forums. In any case getting this game out won’t do any harm, if you’re waiting for fan translators to translate the game they could just do a patch for the western release if it ever gets one adding the grouping. (I mean if they can already patch a fan translation they can do that much). Everybody wins.

  141. Furluge
    Furluge
    July 16, 2015 at 12:08 am

    Uh huh. And how many /businesses/ do you know of that openly endorse illegal file sharing do you know of that can openly have offices and staff in the United States or Canada without fear of reprisal?

    (The answer is 0, in case you had to think about that.)

  142. Fenrir007
    Fenrir007
    July 16, 2015 at 12:23 am

    I was a lawyer in my country, so I’m more or less sure of what I’m talking about. Yeah, sure, corruption happens, but being a civil servant is a very priviledged career in my country, and not everyone is willing to jeopardize it by turning to corruption. Those who do, usually do it for money, not to play morality police at no personal benefit. Maybe this is a cultural thing.

    You can threaten (actually, you are obligated to act, as this is not some discritionary act) to revoke a license, but it needs to be grounded on a well built argumentation, and an investigation precedes any impediment unless it’s readily apparent that the place is violanting policies. Even then, they have to be severe to warrant that without issuing a warning or a fine first (example – you never filed for a permit in the first place! But then, it’s your own damn fault). You can generally keep operating until an administrative ruling is made, and even after that, you can challenge it in court and get its execution suspended in some cases. More importantly, if this seems to be made for reasons beyond the regulations and law requirements, an investigation can be done on the one who started this, and that alone is a major headache for the person involved. It’s simply not worth being a dick just to be a dick, especially now with the (justified) witch hunt against the public sector.

    Also, Brazil is one of the most litigious, if not THE most litigious country in the world. According to our State Court’s president, Brazil has more law schools than the rest of the entire world combined. As you might imagine, scarcity laws get in play, meaning you can get lawyers a lot cheaper than you would in the USA. If I recall correctly, we had more than 100 million ongoing lawsuits in our country. Considering we have 200 million people, that’s at least 1 lawsuit to each 2 people, and considering most lawsuits involve multiple people (as opposed to a person suing the State, for instance), we may very well have, statistically speaking, everyone in the country involved in some sort of litigation. So yes, cost is not that much of an issue here.

  143. Furluge
    Furluge
    July 16, 2015 at 12:23 am

    A) No where in the interview does he says he’s against it, just that he can’t bring it.

    B) Even if he was personally against it, it doesn’t matter as long as he’s willing to deliver it, which he is, but he can’t, due to the fact that the game would probably tank at the ESRB and is likely to get them in trouble legally.

    I’m sorry, but that’s the situation. Hating on Victor for being honest about the situation isn’t going to make it better. If you want to hate someone hate the politicians that passed the laws in the first place. The law has been in place for over ten years now BTW. Expect the pressure to increase as time goes on, not decrease, the same way it took a while for the DMCA to really start going full steam.

  144. Furluge
    Furluge
    July 16, 2015 at 12:24 am

    Before anyone says it, no Dragon Song does not count.

    I kind of get the feeling that game arts doesn’t have the financial ability to do a Lunar 3 anymore. Hand drawn animation and voice actors aren’t cheap.

  145. Fenrir007
    Fenrir007
    July 16, 2015 at 12:24 am

    Already went into detail on this.

  146. Holyfox25
    Holyfox25
    July 16, 2015 at 12:25 am

    haha, exactly!

  147. Fenrir007
    Fenrir007
    July 16, 2015 at 12:25 am

    Adding that would be significantly harder than just patching text, I imagine.

  148. Fenrir007
    Fenrir007
    July 16, 2015 at 12:28 am

    I wouldn’t consider anything written on that website as gospel, and the reason I wrote here:

    http://disq.us/8nzlzm

  149. blackice85
    blackice85
    July 16, 2015 at 12:30 am

    Dragon what? >.>;

  150. Fenrir007
    Fenrir007
    July 16, 2015 at 12:31 am

    “There’s no way to please everyone”

    Actually, there is.

    Whatever you wish to censor, make it toggable.

  151. dsadsada
    dsadsada
    July 16, 2015 at 12:32 am

    I’m familiar with jumping through hoops though I’ve never heard kissing the ring in any other aspect other than that a person got knocked out. But now that I understand what you mean, I’m not going to disagree with you.

    I was only bothering with the fog solely in context with its usage in Criminal Girls. I think we were trying to discuss different things at some point there.

    Outside the subject of CG, I have no preferences either way with fogs and mosaics myself and actually find the shafts of light incredibly annoying with how much screen space they have to take up to even be there.

  152. Fenrir007
    Fenrir007
    July 16, 2015 at 12:42 am

    I wouldn’t trust the website you linked, considering their pechant for ommiting vital information:

  153. Furluge
    Furluge
    July 16, 2015 at 1:01 am

    I’m not going to claim to be a lawyer or be very familiar with Brazil, but in regards to the United States specifically you may want to look at a legal concept called “qualified immunity” and “total immunity” that exists here. This, among a number of other rulings makes it difficult to hold agents or the agencies they work for held accountable for misconduct.

    Generally from what I have seen in practice you end up either in jail or losing your license during the legal proceeding, depending on whatever it is. Legal bills are quite high here, and in many cases you are legally not allowed to sue the government agent or agency afterward if even you win your case.

    You also may become the victim of civil forfeiture, where your property itself is indicted as being part of a crime and you are required to prove the property innocent of being involved in any crime. (Note: They can still do this even if they don’t charge you with a crime.)

    Usually you only see cases against the government successful unless the abuse is something very heinous such grievous bodily harm.

    I know it sounds crazy but realize this is a country where a prosecutor can knowingly withhold evidence of a defendant’s innocence from trial, get a conviction, and often times at most only face a contempt of court charge, and only then because it defies a judges order, not specifically for getting the wrongful conviction.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mark-godsey/for-the-first-time-ever-a_b_4221000.html

    Even if the possibility exists for a particular bureaucrat facing reprisal for overstepping their bounds the risk is really low for them compared to their targets. For bonus depression, see how many times local government accidentally demolish the wrong home everywhere yet can’t be sued for damages, leaving the victims to accept whatever amount the local government wants to pay, often less than the house is evaluated for taxes.

    TL;DR – The rules are different for government as opposed to citizens.

  154. Furluge
    Furluge
    July 16, 2015 at 1:04 am

    I’m sorry you have an issue with the Comic Book Legal Defense Fund. Would you like to have an issue with the ACLU or FIRE next? No offense, but I trust them more than a random guy from Brazil. :)

  155. Furluge
    Furluge
    July 16, 2015 at 1:06 am

    My understanding is the term goes back to kissing the Pope’s ring during medieval Europe.

  156. Firion Hope
    Firion Hope
    July 16, 2015 at 1:10 am

    okay lol. Keep making up imaginary boogymen for them to self censor from when plenty of other companies aren’t.

  157. Furluge
    Furluge
    July 16, 2015 at 1:22 am

    If you’re going to talk big you need to back it up. It seems like you’ve spammed a lot of info (Without links to sources btw.) in the hopes I wouldn’t read through it.

    I see a lot about prior convictions but nothing about him being charged with having photographs in 2006. Please show me where it shows in 2006 he was charged for having photographs of children and not drawing. (Note: Charging him for the drawings and then finding photographs later after subsequent investigation doesn’t count either, the issue is what he was charged with.)

    I have to be honest, no offense, I’ve got a lot more trust in the CBLDF then I do a random guy from Brazil. Also, even if the CBLDF had not given the whole information, which I don’t believe, you still have two other examples to disprove not to mention that you would have to convince me that the Protect Act of 2003 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1466A) doesn’t explicitly say the following.

    (a)
    In General.—
    Any person who, in a circumstance described
    in subsection (d), knowingly produces, distributes, receives, or
    possesses with intent to distribute, a visual depiction of any kind,
    including a drawing, cartoon, sculpture, or painting, that—

    (1)

    (A)
    depicts a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct; and

    (B)
    is obscene; or

    (2)

    (A)
    depicts an image that is, or
    appears to be, of a minor engaging in graphic bestiality, sadistic or
    masochistic abuse, or sexual intercourse, including genital-genital,
    oral-genital, anal-genital, or oral-anal, whether between persons of the
    same or opposite sex; and

    (B)
    lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value;
    or attempts or conspires to do so, shall be subject to the penalties provided in section
    2252A
    (b)(1), including the penalties provided for cases involving a prior conviction.

    Are you going to tell me the CBLDF invented the “drawing, cartoon, and sculpture” parts are well?

  158. Furluge
    Furluge
    July 16, 2015 at 1:27 am

    Would this one make you feel better? https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1466A

    Or are you trying to say that the CBLDF made up the text of the law as well? I’m not going to deny that CBLDF has an agenda, but you are talking about an organization whose sole purpose is to defend civil liberties. Their agenda is in line with the ACLU, FIRE, and they have a good track record. They probably do err on the side of protecting defendants but that’s kind of the point.

  159. dsadsada
    dsadsada
    July 16, 2015 at 1:32 am

    Oh, that kind of ring.

    Ahh, it wasn’t a ring at all for the expression I was thinking of. It was more of a mat, or tarp or something. Silly me.

  160. Furluge
    Furluge
    July 16, 2015 at 1:37 am

    Already responded to that, I still haven’t haven’t seen you actually refute anything they’ve said, but if you would like more sources you can simply just look at the law itself.

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1466A

    “drawing, cartoon, or sculpture” is listed right up there at the top of the law.

    I have to be honest with you though, considering their history I am inclined to believe them, or at least the general gist of what they’re saying. Even more so since you can just read the law and see the root cause of the issue.

  161. Furluge
    Furluge
    July 16, 2015 at 1:41 am

    I read it, still haven’t seen anything that disproves their claim regarding the reason for the arrest in 2006.

    If you’d like you can just goto the law and read it.
    https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1466A

    “drawing, cartoon, or sculpture” is right there at the top.

  162. Furluge
    Furluge
    July 16, 2015 at 1:59 am

    I would qualify the below as hating, in my opinion.

    “I really, really, really hope you will never, ever, EVER get your hands on [email protected]

    Let someone who won’t butcher it do it instead. Or better yet, don’t localize it and let’s just keep waiting for some fan translation, instead, like they did with the PSP titles.”

    I understand where you’re coming from, but he’s being honest about what would have to happen to release the game in the US. I prefer honesty to being lied to. All this negativity is basically telling developers to either shut up and not do interviews or to not release these titles period.

    Also I wouldn’t put all my eggs into the fan translation basket.Sometimes the Japanese developers will target the fan translation site with DMCAs, just ask anyone who has been crazy enough to try translating anything from Lilith.

  163. Furluge
    Furluge
    July 16, 2015 at 2:11 am

    Yes, he has, and he specifically said borderline. Guy’s been doing this over 25 years, he’s smart enough to know the that touching an 11 year old’s boobs in game won’t work, and the girls in idolmaster aren’t drawn in a way that you could easily get away with claiming they’re older.

    You’re also holding his feet to the fire for the same thing pretty much any other publisher releasing titles in the US and Canada has to do. The only difference is he’s willing to be honest about it.

  164. Furluge
    Furluge
    July 16, 2015 at 2:15 am

    JAST is also a Tokyo based multinational corporation with only a child company in the US. Gaijinworks is a small studio in California. There’s a bit of a difference there when it comes to risk they’re willing to take on.

  165. dsadsada
    dsadsada
    July 16, 2015 at 2:21 am

    Then he can avoid doing the ones that have fanservice instead of localizing them, cutting content, and preventing other localization companies that are less censor happy from even having the option of taking a crack at them.

    That’s another reason people are reacting so much to his Idolmaster comment. Because they feel there’s nothing major enough to warrant cuts but are worried there would be cuts if he got his hands on any of them.

  166. Furluge
    Furluge
    July 16, 2015 at 2:23 am

    “But your honor, we made it so you could toggle the illegal content!”

    Doesn’t quite work that way.

  167. Antoinant
    Antoinant
    July 16, 2015 at 2:24 am

    I hope this is bait

  168. dsadsada
    dsadsada
    July 16, 2015 at 2:24 am

    Looking at the Vita library, that shit’s flying all over the place actually.

  169. Furluge
    Furluge
    July 16, 2015 at 2:29 am

    The key thing is that anyone who “gets their hands on the game” will have to do the same thing to get it released in the United States or Canada. Acting like it’s just his personal choice isn’t being honest.

  170. Narmy
    Narmy
    July 16, 2015 at 2:37 am

    wat. There is nothing in those games that has to be censored to release them in North America.

  171. dsadsada
    dsadsada
    July 16, 2015 at 2:37 am

    Highly unlikely if it was something like XSeed or Idea Factory International.

    Admittedly, IFI did censor Monster Monpiece when they released it but comparing it with something like Idolmaster and you’d see that there’s nothing in Idolmaster worth censoring with what they did still manage to keep in with Monster Monpiece. Still, it was their first release and there later works have very little to no censorship since.

    And if it’s XSeed then there will be nothing censored at all. The groping in the Idolmaster video you’re spamming is hardly anything compared to the groping you can do in the changing room in Senran Kagura.

    Best part is that their main offices aren’t US based as you like to say in Gaijinwork’s defense.

  172. Furluge
    Furluge
    July 16, 2015 at 2:44 am

    And just about all the games you mention have been censored in some fashion either by blocking out or removing the content or toying with ages or making whatever changes to skirt the law. Please find me the game that was released on console in the US that explicitly lets you touch an 11 or 12 year old’s breasts and I’ll believe you.

  173. dsadsada
    dsadsada
    July 16, 2015 at 2:54 am

    Depends on whether you want to count body type or purely age. If it’s body type then there are many. Off the top of my head, Senran Kagura’s Mirai for example easily fits right in and was totally gropable at any part of her body at almost any angle.

    If we’re not setting groping as the standard and sexualized CG can count, then Neptunia Rebirth 2 had two little girls getting licked all over by a blatantly obvious and self admitting pedophile’s tongue with the CG for it left untouched with the game still getting away with a T rating.

    If the number is such an issue, remove it from the bio the way XSeed did. It affected nothing, was not a feature by any possible means, and was simply flavor text. The only way changing or removing the age would be an issue is if the character’s age is imperative to the story.

  174. Holyfox25
    Holyfox25
    July 16, 2015 at 2:57 am

    The law states that it has to be obscene and sexually explicit conduct… I wouldn’t call that obscene and explicit… (She is fully clothed after all, and wouldn’t YouTube have to take the video down?) Although with the law being vague at times, it’s understandable that publishers wouldn’t want to take the risk.

  175. Narmy
    Narmy
    July 16, 2015 at 2:58 am

    Tom from XSEED specifically said that they did not need to remove the ages from Senran Kagura, but he couldn’t convince his fellow employees to leave them in. That was entirely a moral decision on their part, not a way of avoiding legal repercussions.

    And are you even reading the links you’re spamming? That’s for explicit sexual content and obscenity. In order for something to be considered obscene it needs to pass the Miller test, and that applies to all forms of pornography, not just loli. That means that even hardcore porn is not considered legally obscene.

    Regardless, all that legal mumbo-jumbo means nothing, since precedent proves you wrong. If they can sell this in America uncut (skip to 12 minutes in), then they can damn well sell Idolmaster.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OC-jg82BMWw#t=12m

  176. Furluge
    Furluge
    July 16, 2015 at 2:59 am

    Specifically both criteria at the same time.

    I’ll be honest with you though, from what I’ve seen it’s the body type that’s playing with fire the most. I wouldn’t want to be the one defending Mirai in a court of law with the way the law is written. All it’s going to take is a federal prosecutor with an agenda to get that game banned. :(

  177. Furluge
    Furluge
    July 16, 2015 at 3:19 am

    Yes, I am, and do you not understand how bloody vague the Miller test is? Hardcore porn /already does/ get brought up on charges for obscenity.

    * Whether “the average person, applying contemporary community standards”, would find that the work, taken as a whole, appeals to the prurient interest,
    * Whether the work depicts or describes, in a patently offensive way, sexual conduct or excretory functions specifically defined by applicable state law,
    * Whether the work, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value.

    Here’s a hint, if I were a federal prosecutor, I can very easily make the argument that your game having a minigame about groping a 12 year old girl’s breasts meets that standard for that test. Hell I don’t even have to win my case to ruin you because I have an essentially limitless supply of money and will be paid to pursue you, where as you will need to hire your own defense, take time out for the trial, and likely have your business ruined in the interim.

    Lastly I’m familiar with Dance in the Vampire Bund. I also remember it was risky of them to release it at the time, there are reasons it’s easier to get that out in a video instead of a game where you are an active participant… and I still wouldn’t recommend you cross any borders with images like you see at the 12 minute mark.

  178. Furluge
    Furluge
    July 16, 2015 at 3:19 am

    Yep, I’m familiar, but like you said it’s vague. The legal definition of obscene is very easy to twist around.

  179. buddyluv324
    buddyluv324
    July 16, 2015 at 3:26 am

    I saw the IM pai touch clips that im assuming you’re referring to earlier. If that is what Victor is talking about, there’s “T” rated games that get away with worse than what IM has to offer. With that aside though Gaijinworks doesnt particularly work with fanservice titles so in a way I can understand why Victor will make that comment about IM.

  180. Mea K
    Mea K
    July 16, 2015 at 6:08 am

    Right. Committing certain kinds of crimes (i.e. underage sex, rape) against fictional characters makes you a danger to society, but committing other kinds of crimes (i.e. physical abuse, torture, murder) against them is fine because obviously there’s no correlation between what someone does in the world of fiction and their behavior in the real world (as long as their fiction isn’t any of that gross lewd stuff DAMAGED people like, eww). /s

    How we engage with fictional characters either affects us or it doesn’t. You cannot pick and choose which unlawful behaviors are okay and which aren’t based on your personal likes and dislikes. Not unless you want to be a massive hypocrite, anyway.

  181. Crayll
    Crayll
    July 16, 2015 at 1:15 pm

    I wouldn’t have had any issue if he’d simply said ‘publishers would make us cut these scenes’, or something along those lines. It was calling them near-pedophilia that bothered me, which leads me to believe that he holds that belief himself.

  182. Crayll
    Crayll
    July 16, 2015 at 1:17 pm

    Oh, I know that the laws are fucked, especially in Canada. That still doesn’t make it ‘borderline pedophilia’, however: it just means that the laws are stupid.

  183. Fenrir007
    Fenrir007
    July 16, 2015 at 5:22 pm

    You said “please”, so I thought you mentioned the fans, not the legal side of things.

    I stand by the notion that this is not illegal, and the reasons are in other posts.

  184. Fenrir007
    Fenrir007
    July 16, 2015 at 5:34 pm

    >depicts a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct

    There is no sexually explicit conduct here. There is no fondling, moaning or anything of that kind here. There is a poking action, which is not even depicted in the screen (and just textually inferred) and thats it.

    >is obscene

    I won’t pretend to know what the zany american culture considers “obscene”, but if this is, I wonder when the FBI sting on anime conventions will happen, because they have plenty of criminals to catch.

    >depicts an image that is, or appears to be, of a
    minor engaging in graphic bestiality etc

    Not the case at all.

    >lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value

    Americans laws are fucked up, my god. I dont really see this holding up in court, though – at least not in the Supreme Court. It would look especially jarring given the arguments used in their recent ruling against the ban on violent video games.

    I don’t really see anyone trying to ban this, to be honest. It’s so incredly mild. If someone was so inclined to do so, they would act against any other games already out there on that feature actual nudity.

  185. Fenrir007
    Fenrir007
    July 16, 2015 at 5:35 pm

    The risk is null when you see the instance of “pedophilia” he is referring to.

  186. Nonscpo
    Nonscpo
    July 16, 2015 at 5:35 pm

    The issue is he mentioned his interest in localizing the Idolmaster series. that’s why people are pissed and concerned. Personally I don’t see it happening due to licensing and the fact that the core audience isn’t going to support an altered game anyway.

  187. Fenrir007
    Fenrir007
    July 16, 2015 at 5:37 pm

    Touching that you don’t even see – more like poking, by the way.

    By the way, if you have seen me commenting on nichegamer before, you will know I’m the first to complain very loudly about instances of censorship other engage in. I buy games used when they have been censored, or dont bother at all.

  188. Fenrir007
    Fenrir007
    July 16, 2015 at 5:41 pm

    Hating on him, or on the idea of someone prone to censorship taking a shot at butchering the game? There is a large difference here.

    “All this negativity is basically telling developers to either shut up
    and not do interviews or to not release these titles period.”

    Good – let them stay unreleased, so its still available to non-censors or non-american based companies to give a try.

    “Also I wouldn’t put all my eggs into the fan translation
    basket.Sometimes the Japanese developers will target the fan translation site with DMCAs, just ask anyone who has been crazy enough to try translating anything from Lilith.”

    The [email protected] games have yet to be served with a DMCA. There are also those who translate it even after being served one, or do it in a way that its close to impossible to be found by their lawyers.

    Let us not forget that a translation is not, by itself, illegal, so most would simply ignore the notice. We have a very active undub community, for example, including for high profile games, and I never heard of anyone being served a DMCA.

  189. Fenrir007
    Fenrir007
    July 16, 2015 at 5:47 pm

    My apologies – somehow, I forgot to link the very place I was sourcing my entire post from.

    It’s the Whorley case itself:

    http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-4th-circuit/1431669.html#sthash.Oj61hs1g.dpuf

    This is the relevant part of his appeal’s ruling (I’m assuming its the ruling – I find american-related law things extremely hard to navigate):

    “Indeed, excepting the digital pictures of the actual children, Whorley
    could have possessed hard copies of the cartoons and e-mails in his home without any fear of conviction under § 1462 because the materials only portrayed and discussed fictional children.   Nevertheless, because Stanley’s holding is limited to the confines of one’s home, I reject Whorley’s contention that he is entitled to view obscenity in the workplace for the reasons articulated in the majority opinion.”

    Notice how here is said that the ruling on the Stanley case (one of the cases I linked) allows viewing obscenity at home, and because of that, had he done so not at work, but at home, he would not have incurred in any criminal behavior. By extension, this would mean that obscenity laws do not regulate what you view at your leisure in the confines of your home, provided that is not a separate crime in itself – and hentai of any kind is not.

    As “obscenity” is the only of the cases where this could even be remotely discussed in the context of the “pai touch”, this shoots down your theory.

  190. Fenrir007
    Fenrir007
    July 16, 2015 at 5:51 pm

    If you were a federal prosecutor, you would be much more interested in curbing actual crime than wasting a humongous amount of tax payer’s money on inane things.

    Trials are not free. They cost a shitload of money. Your money. Everyone’s money.

  191. Fenrir007
    Fenrir007
    July 16, 2015 at 5:53 pm

    I guess I wrongly assumed my corrupt as fuck craphole would be more unethical than freedomland. It seems I was gravely mistaken.

    I can’t argue in depth about permits as I don’t know a lick about american regulations.

  192. Fenrir007
    Fenrir007
    July 16, 2015 at 5:56 pm

    Please, answer to this post with a picture of them and a receipt when you do, no matter how many years from now that is. I would like to see the moment when this kind of internet boast becomes true.

  193. Phil F.
    Phil F.
    July 17, 2015 at 3:07 am

    I already own 4 copies of CoH2g, so it’s not too far fetched for me to do the same for SN5.

  194. Phil F.
    Phil F.
    July 17, 2015 at 3:16 am

    If having a minigame where you feel up little girls cut ruins the game for people than it is a shit game, since that’s the only thing that would be cut if the game were to make it over here.

  195. Phil F.
    Phil F.
    July 17, 2015 at 3:17 am

    Nah i’m not going to do that, but i already own like, 4 copies of CoH2g, so it’s not too far fetched.

  196. Phil F.
    Phil F.
    July 17, 2015 at 3:21 am

    Censorship is justified in this situation, since all leaving a minigame where you feel up a little girl in would accomplish is just having sony demand you take it out regardless.

  197. Nonscpo
    Nonscpo
    July 17, 2015 at 10:23 am

    While I can understand what your trying to state, the reality is people buy different games for multiple experiences. At the end of the day this hobby is all about escapism, about doing things in a fictional world that you know you would never do in the real world. Im not saying it’s right and I’m not stating that it’s wrong, just that it’s a fact of life. Besides as I stated earlier, I don’t think anybody has anything to worry about, the people at Gaijinworks had to have seen all this feedback, and realize that localizing Idolmaster isn’t worth their time.

  198. Thanatos2k
    Thanatos2k
    July 17, 2015 at 10:41 am

    It really isn’t. I specified why there’s a difference between console games and PC games in this regard.

  199. Giany Rivera (ジャンニ)
    Giany Rivera (ジャンニ)
    July 17, 2015 at 10:51 am

    Dude, do you just hate games like Senran Kagura or something? You seem to be acting kinda retarded and unreasonable.

  200. Thanatos2k
    Thanatos2k
    July 17, 2015 at 10:53 am

    Neither are fine. And neither are wrong to do in a video game given it’s not reality.

    But it’s the mentality that’s sick. If this stuff excites you, you have problems. No way around that.

  201. Thanatos2k
    Thanatos2k
    July 17, 2015 at 10:54 am

    If by flying you mean being censored left and right.

  202. Thanatos2k
    Thanatos2k
    July 17, 2015 at 10:55 am

    It doesn’t even matter if they’re “older” or not. It’s the appearance of the characters that’s the problem. Slapping a “They’re actually 21 years old!” in a character profile doesn’t change the fact that they LOOK like children, and that’s all that matters.

  203. Thanatos2k
    Thanatos2k
    July 17, 2015 at 10:57 am

    Drawing is fine. Producing sexualized content in those drawings? Slightly less fine. Being attracted to that drawing? Those are the people with the problems.

  204. Thanatos2k
    Thanatos2k
    July 17, 2015 at 10:58 am

    And many are censored. Because that shit will never fly.

  205. dsadsada
    dsadsada
    July 17, 2015 at 11:13 am

    They did no such thing in Senran Kagura where you can do far worse in the dressing room.

  206. dsadsada
    dsadsada
    July 17, 2015 at 11:28 am

    What I mean by flying is being brought over at all which is in fact the only meaning I can understand that expression to refer to in this context. If shit like that wouldn’t fly, something like Criminal Girls couldn’t possibly be brought over. The amount of censoring they did end up doing would have never been enough.

    Now what do you mean by flying, because if you meant that it would never be considered acceptable then that’s still what I meant as well. If it would never be acceptable even simply as a form of fictional entertainment, those games would never have been localized.

    Criminal Girls did get censored. But when it came out in Japan, people were already saying that it would never come stateside. They believed that it would never fly in the western market.

    And yet it did come over, and with just added fog and removed voices which even the staunchest anti-censorship crusader can admit is quite minor.

  207. Siveon
    Siveon
    July 17, 2015 at 5:10 pm

    Pretty much. They should just specialize in the games with little to no fanservice. I.E the ones I want. :3

  208. Mea K
    Mea K
    July 17, 2015 at 5:16 pm

    Oh?

    But to clap and cheer when a slasher film protagonist slices a victim to ribbons is not “sick”? The people who take delight in ripping their opponent’s spine out in Mortal Kombat don’t have “problems”? What about the “mentality” that it’s harmless to run over countless people in Carmageddon because they aren’t real is different from the one that it’s harmless to have virtual sex with a loli because she isn’t real?

    How am I supposed to read this as anything other than double standards stemming from personal bias?

    Besides, if you recognize that people have the ability to differentiate between fiction and reality, but want to ban stuff that is, by your own admission, “not wrong to do in a video game” anyway, you’re actually just telling us to stop liking what you don’t like and trying to make that look less selfish by claiming some kind of dubious moral high ground.

    Right?

  209. Fenrir007
    Fenrir007
    July 17, 2015 at 6:05 pm

    “And many are censored.”

    On explicit sexual content. And even then, not all of them.

    You are comparing someone touching the chest area of a teen girl in a mini-game where that is not even the expected action AND is not well received by the character – an action that is not even SHOWN on screen, by the way, just described – with hardcore sex. I don’t even.

  210. Fenrir007
    Fenrir007
    July 17, 2015 at 6:07 pm

    I somehow doubt your credentials, Mr. Internet Psychologist.

  211. Fenrir007
    Fenrir007
    July 17, 2015 at 6:11 pm

    You said Starless was censored (as your “it was still censored” was a direct response to VWinds talking about the censorship in Starless – in fact, his entire argument was about it). His very conclusion is that the game wasn’t censored.

    I’m telling you that, while it was, indeed, censored in the strict sense of the world, this is semantics since, to the consumer, what matters is to have a legal way of experiencing the unbutchered content that doesn’t have you jumping through multiple hoops. And JAST provided just that. Which is why saying “it’s still censorship” in this case is still semantics.

  212. Phil F.
    Phil F.
    July 17, 2015 at 10:14 pm

    but they did remove the ages, so you can’t tell the difference.

  213. dsadsada
    dsadsada
    July 17, 2015 at 10:33 pm

    I don’t understand what you’re even trying to say. Heck, removing the ages makes it possible to think that Mirai is even younger than she actually is, and she already looks and in some instances acts like a kid.

    That and my point was that Sony never instructed them to remove the minigame as you said they would (and it’s barely even one since you could play the game without realizing that you can sexually harass the girls in the dressing room and there isn’t any sort of goal or bonus to doing so even if you do).

  214. Thanatos2k
    Thanatos2k
    July 17, 2015 at 11:53 pm

    You don’t seem to understand what I’m talking about. The only reason they were able to uncensor the censored game they sold was because it was a PC game. Console games have no such option. So ragging on Ireland (who only does console games) for it seems disingenuous at best.

  215. Thanatos2k
    Thanatos2k
    July 17, 2015 at 11:54 pm

    Sounds like you’re one of the people who has problems.

  216. Thanatos2k
    Thanatos2k
    July 17, 2015 at 11:54 pm

    “On explicit sexual content.”
    “touching the chest area of a teen girl”

    My god, you seriously think they’re different things.

  217. Thanatos2k
    Thanatos2k
    July 17, 2015 at 11:58 pm

    “But to clap and cheer when a slasher film protagonist slices a victim to ribbons is not “sick”?”

    Sure, people who get off on gore are probably messed up. But it depends, were the victims annoying? Did the victims deserve it? There’s plenty of mitigating factors there. Are there with fantasizing about underage girls in a video game? Because I’m not seeing any.

    I never said I wanted to ban anything. I’m just saying the market has banned it and it will not be sold, so don’t even bother making it. It’s creepy as shit anyways.

  218. Thanatos2k
    Thanatos2k
    July 18, 2015 at 12:03 am

    “If shit like that wouldn’t fly, something like Criminal Girls couldn’t possibly be brought over.”

    What you meant to say was

    “If shit like that wouldn’t fly, something like Criminal Girls couldn’t possibly be brought over untouched.”

    And what do you know? It wasn’t. Exactly my point. Criminal Girls did not fly, as is. If you want to play the untouched Criminal Girls, learn Japanese and import.

  219. dsadsada
    dsadsada
    July 18, 2015 at 1:44 am

    I was one of those people you know. Seriously look up those articles and you’ll likely see me in there. I must complain about any censorship regardless of severity. That’s just how it is for me and as such, I haven’t even gotten the game despite admitting that it was extremely mild.

    And my point was that it did come over. If it wouldn’t fly, it wouldn’t have come at all. Because that’s what ‘wouldn’t fly’ means for me without any specifics like ‘as it is’ that you didn’t include in your first post. I can’t tell anymore whether you simply weren’t being clear or if you’re moving goalposts so there’s no point continuing further.

  220. Fenrir007
    Fenrir007
    July 18, 2015 at 2:59 am

    I do in this context.

    Explicit is commonly a reference to a visual depiction. That is not what happens here. I suggest you check the video posted in these comment sections for clarification.

  221. Fenrir007
    Fenrir007
    July 18, 2015 at 2:59 am

    And – let me guess – you are one of those people who has the answers?

  222. Fenrir007
    Fenrir007
    July 18, 2015 at 3:00 am

    And that’s not my point. I was pretty clear on my comments, so I give on further explaining. You can re-read it if you like.

  223. Phil F.
    Phil F.
    July 18, 2015 at 11:01 am

    All that means is that they removed it before shipping it off to sony, it doesn’t prove anything.

  224. dsadsada
    dsadsada
    July 18, 2015 at 12:05 pm

    It is a fact and all you’re doing is brushing it aside over some hypothetical.

    It remains and will always remain a fact that they were neither told by Sony or any other authority to get rid of anything nor did Tom who was doing the localization feel that anything needed to be cut, but that it was a compromise he reached with his colleagues due to their own moral standings. Moral standings stemming from their own feelings and not from any sort of regulation, because there was no such regulation requiring it of them.

    And again, I don’t even know what you’re trying to say by saying that by removing the ages, we can’t tell the difference. It, again, only logically makes the whole thing potentially worse by making it easier to claim that a character like Mirai is totally a 10 year old and not the 15 year old that she actually is. If anything, taking the route of bumping their ages up would have been the better option.

  225. Mea K
    Mea K
    July 18, 2015 at 5:39 pm

    What? No matter how annoying the victim was, that’s still a gruesome murder the audience is cheering at. We’re discussing the morality of how we perceive fictional illegal acts enacted upon fictional characters (take a moment to consider how silly that is). The victim’s personality is not a mitigating factor at all, unless you really want to argue some murders are more morally justified than others. Even then, the majority of slasher film victims are average, likeable people.

    If we *are* considering context in our moral judgments, though, there are plenty of possible mitigating factors for lolicon content. Maybe the loli and her protagonist are in love. They’re a really cute couple. They deserve each other. A character “deserving it” was a mitigating factor for enjoying fictional immoral behavior, right?

    Of course no act of fictional violence or sex, no matter how vile, should need any excuse beyond the patently obvious “It’s not real.”

    I’m sorry, but the market has evidently not banned these games, or I would not be able to legally buy and play them in English. Before I get pounced on: I don’t care if a publisher is technically in Japan. If I can buy something, it’s part of the market.

  226. Mahouokakete
    Mahouokakete
    July 19, 2015 at 12:37 am

    Having played several THE [email protected] games, there’s really nothing worth censoring in the games besides these Pai-touch games. If you look at the iOS SHINY FESTA games that did receive an official translation, there was practically no censoring when the game came to the US. The only censorship that was made was the replacement of some swimsuit costumes for some hula costumes. Notably, the trio of games are marketed as a “4+” target age in the US, despite having a CERO: B rating in Japan.

  227. HelloHelloHello
    HelloHelloHello
    July 19, 2015 at 4:58 pm

    Body type is the biggest factor for most people. Flat = child and busty = adult. Even if it’s wrong, both in 2D creations and real life, that’s the general thinking of most people.

  228. Thanatos2k
    Thanatos2k
    July 20, 2015 at 12:14 am

    “What? No matter how annoying the victim was, that’s still a gruesome murder the audience is cheering at.”

    ….What? Some fictional characters deserve to be gruesomely murdered, karmically. I’m not sure any fictional underage characters deserve to be molested.

    “Maybe the loli and her protagonist are in love. They’re a really cute couple. They deserve each other.”

    If that’s what the story was about, sure. But when explicit content is included that’s not for the story, that’s for the player.

    “I’m sorry, but the market has evidently not banned these games”

    It absolutely has. You will not be able to buy any of those titles untouched. There may be a way to restore the content, but that’s not the product you bought.

  229. Thanatos2k
    Thanatos2k
    July 20, 2015 at 12:22 am

    There is no answer to that problem. From what I hear it’s incurable.

  230. Thanatos2k
    Thanatos2k
    July 20, 2015 at 12:23 am

    Your point has nothing to do with the words I am typing. You’re babbling about the semantics about whether a specific game was sold censored or not (it was) but I’m talking about whether console games can be uncensored in the same fashion (they can’t) and whether it’s rational to get mad at Ireland about that..

  231. Thanatos2k
    Thanatos2k
    July 20, 2015 at 12:25 am

    “Fully and clearly expressed; leaving nothing implied”

    Seems like it fits that definition perfectly.

    “the mini-game is not sexual in nature”

    …..Seriously? Good lord.

  232. Mea K
    Mea K
    July 20, 2015 at 7:35 am

    “Some fictional characters deserve to be gruesomely murdered, karmically.”

    What about characters who did not deserve to be killed? The existence of your special brand of karmic death doesn’t somehow absolve all other cases. By your own logic there are millions of “damaged” people out there, shamelessly enjoying gratuitous murder. For the sake of consistency you should consider being as big a killjoy in discussions about fictional violence as you are here, if you aren’t already.

    “I’m not sure any fictional underage characters deserve to be molested.”

    1. A character “deserves” only what their author has planned for them. Bad things happen to innocent characters all the time. It propels a story forward. We don’t police what authors can and can’t do to their creations because we’d soon run out of good villains and exciting books. Why would we make an exception for molestation/rape/sexual deviancy? However…

    2. You seem to be implying adult games with lolis in them are all horrible rape simulators. I hope you’re just being disingenuous. A lot of lolis have happy relationships in which they are are loved tenderly. That said, even loli rape sims are perfectly fine to enjoy because of the whole ‘not real’ thing.

    “If that’s what the story was about, sure. But when explicit content is
    included that’s not for the story, that’s for the player.”

    Yeah. How dare these games pander to their audience in ways you don’t approve of.

    “You will not be able to buy any of those titles untouched.”

    Let’s see. For the low price of $39.95 I can buy a boxed copy of Littlewitch Romanesque with all of its explicit content intact, shipped from San Diego. Doesn’t look very touched to me. Well, they did touch the artwork to uncensor it.

    And, yes, adult games that are already only being sold to adult audiences would get an adult only rating if they were rated by the ESRB. How… horrible?

    Unless you meant completely innocent stuff like the example of being able to brush your hand against a clothed teenager’s chest in [email protected], but if you think that would warrant an AO rating I’ll just smile and nod (and it would still sell like hotcakes because the [email protected] fanbase is older than you think).

    “The larger they get, the greater the chance for something to happen that you’re not gonna like.”

    Moralistic authoritarians will keep trying to curb artistic freedom, but I’m sure there will always be sensible people who stand up to them.

  233. Thanatos2k
    Thanatos2k
    July 20, 2015 at 2:58 pm

    “What about characters who did not deserve to be killed?”

    They’re victims used to curry sympathy with the audience and thus make the audience want the killer brought to justice. That’s how storytelling works.

    “By your own logic there are millions of “damaged” people out there, shamelessly enjoying gratuitous murder”

    I’m sure there are. What is it now, like 25% of people have some mental issue these days?

    But that does nothing to excuse the people we’re actually talking about here. You’re doing your best to deflect and try to change the subject, but these people are still sick and still twisted.

    “You seem to be implying adult games with lolis in them are all horrible rape simulators.”

    This is a perfect example of a strawman debate tactic. Try again.

    “(and it would still sell like hotcakes because the [email protected] fanbase is older than you think)”

    As I said, people with problems.

  234. Phil F.
    Phil F.
    July 20, 2015 at 4:17 pm

    Because they censored it themselves beforehand so sony or any other authority told them to remove it, yes.

    Also it definitely helped that they released it on the vita, an already incredibly obscure console.

  235. dsadsada
    dsadsada
    July 20, 2015 at 10:08 pm

    Again, nowhere was it said that Sony or the ESRB or any other ratings board required any censorship of them. Tom has gone on record saying as such and in fact has even said that something like Senran Kagura managed to get a T in the end BEFORE censorship was applied.

    Therefore, “they censored it themselves beforehand so sony or any other authority told them to remove it” is a bald faced lie. They censored it after the fact and only because of their own morals.

    They also released Senran Kagura Burst, the first in the series, on the 3DS, one of the best selling consoles of all time. Still hanging on to that “obscure console” comment?

    http://i.imgur.com/bYP7TKo.jpg

    You’re the one pulling things out of your ass here.

  236. Mea K
    Mea K
    July 20, 2015 at 10:12 pm

    Bravo. I will try to keep this short because I’m done wasting my time here.

    Dedicating one paragraph to exposing your presumed hypocrisy and then immediately going back to the subject is not “deflecting the subject”. Fair enough, though: if you have the same party pooper opinions on violence you are not a hypocrite. Congratulations.

    I wasn’t making up a strawman, I was using hyperbole to address the fact you constantly use loaded words like “molest” to disingenuously paint all these characters as victims.

    You’ve failed to provide anything other than your opinion presented as fact. “This is sick and twisted!” (oh?), “These people are damaged!” (really?). Your gut feelings do not constitute real arguments. They do nothing to legitimize your position that some people don’t deserve the entertainment they enjoy because you don’t like it. Meanwhile you continue to ignore almost every point I make, so I will no longer bother.

    Bye.

  237. Thanatos2k
    Thanatos2k
    July 22, 2015 at 12:47 am

    You exposed no hypocrisy, you attempted a hyperbolic strawman and got caught. If you don’t want to get exposed, don’t try it to begin with.

    “Your gut feelings do not constitute real arguments.”

    You don’t need my gut feelings, you need only look at reality. To the vast majority of people in the world, this content is disgusting. And this is clearly indicated by the fact that games are not even allowed to be sold with this kind of content lest they get an AO rating and be banned from sale.

    You can’t debate this point because it’s true, and it destroys any defense you try. It’s good that you’ve figured out that defending this kind of content is “a waste of time” – you’ll never do it, because it’s undefensible.

  238. Fenrir007
    Fenrir007
    August 21, 2015 at 9:54 pm

    ‘Murrica Fuck Yeah!

  239. Internetakias
    Internetakias
    January 26, 2016 at 2:59 pm

    You do know that the game penalizes you for touching her breasts, right?

  240. Fenrir007
    Fenrir007
    February 26, 2016 at 8:02 pm

    Just a reminder that Im still waiting.

  241. FrostyHugs
    FrostyHugs
    July 19, 2016 at 1:46 pm

    No it wouldn’t you retard. It’s a fictional character, legally they can’t do a fucking thing.

  242. Furluge
    Furluge
    July 20, 2016 at 9:30 pm

    Unfortunately this retard is better informed about US federal law than you are.

    Here is the law in question

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1466A
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PROTECT_Act_of_2003

    The comic book legal defense fund has already cataloged a number of cases regarding it

    http://cbldf.org/criminal-prosecutions-of-manga/

    Wikipedia articles also track a number of cases. You can in may cases even verify that the convicted are on the sex offender registries in their state.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_cartoon_pornography_depicting_minors#United_States

    You can find cases in the UK too

    http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/anime-fan-convicted-over-illegal-7958896

    Some more supplemental links.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller_test
    http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/virtual-child-pornography

    Just because a law is dumb and makes no sense doesn’t make it not a law. Pretending it is not real is foolish. I have collected all these links because people don’t believe prosecutions happen because of how dumb the idea that the US and some other western nations are prosecuting people for drawings, but they are, it’s a verifiable fact.

  243. FrostyHugs
    FrostyHugs
    July 25, 2016 at 10:51 pm

    There’s still not an issue unless it’s considered obscene. And it takes a lot for things to be considered obscene.

    Those court cases sound terrifying but are few and far between, with the R. v .Matheson case being dropped thanks to the CBLDF. It is an outrage that the first two cases happened, a very good example of abuse of the legal system and unjust treatment of the accused. On the same page however it lists,
    “Art is not child pornography. Art provides a safe place for individuals to explore culture, identity and ideas. Prosecuting individuals for possession of comics does not prevent or punish the sexual abuse of real people.

    Manga and comic books are realms of legitimate speech that are protected by the First Amendment.”
    It is indeed a concern that abuse and outdated views on these things are still a problem here but as far as the law is actually concerned these people are safe, and I’m glad organizations exist to protect them from the abuse and injustice.

  244. Furluge
    Furluge
    July 28, 2016 at 3:23 am

    Actually it just takes 3 things for it to be considered obscene. The miller test link describes the 3 criteria.

    – Whether “the average person, applying contemporary community standards”, would find that the work, taken as a whole, appeals to the prurient interest,
    – Whether the work depicts or describes, in a patently offensive way, sexual conduct or excretory functions[3] specifically defined by applicable state law,
    = Whether the work, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value.[4]

    Now you will notice that it is all open to interpretation. This is where the infamous “I know it when I see it” quote comes from after all. Add in how old sitting judges in the are getting in the us and the fact that merely going to court at all will tank all the game profit and you have reason why a company will be gunshy about this subject. Looking back, as this a very old post this chain is responding to, they may be being a bit to conservative but again I still believe that the difference lies in the fact that the larger companies are more able to take the financial risks of dabbling in this subject matter than a small studio like gajinworks can.