Beamdog to Remove #GamerGate Joke, Rewrite Dialogue in Baldur’s Gate: Siege of Dragonspear

Trent Oster, CEO of Beamdog, took to his company’s forums tonight to tackle the issue surrounding the recently released Baldur’s Gate expansion Siege of Dragonspear and the content some have called into question.

Acknowledging that Minsc’s #GamerGate comment did not fit in with the lore of the game, Oster announced that the line would be removed:

Minsc – Minsc has a line which generated controversy. Looking back on the line, we agree with the feedback from our community, it has nothing to do with his character and we will be removing the line.

Oster also broached the topic of Mizhena and the abrupt in-game revelation of her gender challenges, stating that they intend to re-write her in a way that would improve her character:

We’ve received feedback around Mizhena, a supporting character who reveals she is transgender. In retrospect, it would have been better served if we had introduced a transgender character with more development. This is a lesson we will be carrying forward in our development as creators and we will be improving this character in a future update.

Also brought up were the games mechanical missteps, namely the multiplayer problems, which Oster said would be fixed with the next update.

Editor’s Note: Despite the game’s launch being plagued with controversy, with most of it centered on a false-narrative focusing on gamers supposedly hating the game because it included trans or gay characters, we have never advocated for content to be removed. We have, however, critiqued it, which you will see more of in our upcoming review for Baldur’s Gate: Siege of Dragonspear.

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Carl is both a JRPG fan and a CRPG'er who especially loves European PC games. Even with more than three decades of gaming under his belt, he feels the best of the hobby is yet to come.

  1. alto_angelo
    April 6, 2016 at 9:43 pm

    People dont want the gamergate joke to be removed. I havent seen any post in KiA advocating it to be removed. If anything i want everyone to know it.

    it’s a good sign of stupidity and ignorance.

  2. Alexis Nascimento-Lajoie
    Alexis Nascimento-Lajoie
    April 6, 2016 at 9:46 pm

    Honestly they should have kept the joke in. An acknowledgement would have sufficed, but outright removing just shows lack of integrity. If you’re gonna make a shitty decision, stick with it and either own up or move along.

    Games can tackle any subject the developer wants to tackle, but you gotta make sure you do it in an intelligent manner, otherwise people will call you out on it.

    If this was better written I’m pretty damn sure this whole thing wouldn’t have happened. Well maybe the buggy game part would have stuck regardless.

  3. bdp
    April 6, 2016 at 9:47 pm

    They’re learning i guess?

  4. MGNoxa
    April 6, 2016 at 9:48 pm

    Now GamerGate is going to be blamed for censoring…

  5. Carl B.
    Carl B.
    April 6, 2016 at 9:49 pm

    The GG meme was by far and away the least of this game’s writing miscues. You’re right, it didn’t need to be removed. What the game needs is better characterization and a plot that doesn’t retcon BG2.

  6. Nick_Soapdish
    April 6, 2016 at 9:49 pm

    A point I want to make:
    Side A: Finds something they consider ridiculous in game. Just calls it stupid. Doesn’t care thing exists just finds it dumb.
    Side B: Finds something they consider ridiculous in game. Asks for game to be banned, content removed or changed or game never localized.
    Side A: Criticizes things by saying it sucks.
    Side B: Criticizes with words such as sexist, racist, inappropriate implying change is mandatory.

  7. LaunchShipCaptain
    April 6, 2016 at 9:50 pm

    I’m all for free speech, and they can put whatever in their dialogue they want, even if I disagree with it. I just don’t understand why some of these games have become a political platform for developers, what does any of this have to do with the game itself, what exactly do they think to accomplish with it. It’s almost as if they’re doing it on purpose at this point to generate traffic and controversy to their game.

  8. deadeye
    April 6, 2016 at 9:51 pm

    I dunno, if you admit a part of your game is bad, shouldn’t you change it?

    This can apply to things outside of writing as well. Gameplay mechanics, character designs. Pretty much all parts of a game change as time goes on. Does that count as lack of integrity? Sometimes ideas are better in your head and on on paper, then when they actually get into the game, you realize it’s not so good.

    I’ve made some small games as a hobby, and I can say with certainty that changes, sometimes even dramatic changes are common. And the only criticism comes from just me looking at it.

    I don’t think it shows a lack of integrity at all. No developer has that rigid of a vision that they’re unwilling to take out a single line of dialogue, especially if they themselves don’t like it.

  9. scemar
    April 6, 2016 at 9:51 pm

    Maybe they took the fan criticism to heart and will actually improve the things people criticized for feeling like mediocre and just shoehorned in for tokenism and will give them a better implementation and writing quality within the context of the game?

  10. blackice85
    April 6, 2016 at 9:52 pm

    But it’s self censoring, which isn’t a thing.

  11. MusouTensei
    April 6, 2016 at 9:54 pm

    What about the rewritten characters though? This is imo still the worst offender to rewrite characters you havn’t even created.

  12. scemar
    April 6, 2016 at 9:55 pm

    I don’t know who you might be referring to but A seems passionate yet reasonable and with some objective basis for its criticism, without resorting to pleas to emotions and ignorance while respecting the integrity of freedom that has allowed our society to reach this point.

    Side B looks like it’s a very dangerous crowd that could easily stifle common sense, creativity and objectivity, they seem dangerous.

  13. Heavily Augmented
    Heavily Augmented
    April 6, 2016 at 9:55 pm

    “We’ve received feedback around Mizhena, a supporting character who
    reveals she is transgender. In retrospect, it would have been better
    served if we had introduced a transgender character with more

    Despite Beamdog themselves admitting that the trans character was hamfisted into the game, I can’t wait for people to keep blabbing on that it’s all Gamergate’s fault and they hate minorities.

  14. scemar
    April 6, 2016 at 9:56 pm

    Well, facts have never gotten in their way before so I don’t see why they would now.

  15. Phasmatis75
    April 6, 2016 at 9:56 pm

    Well we are the devil now.

  16. Alexis Nascimento-Lajoie
    Alexis Nascimento-Lajoie
    April 6, 2016 at 9:58 pm

    I see your argument and their is validity to it, but that’s how I feel about the subject.

    It’s mainly because the reason behind it is kinda shitty. It basically boils down to removing something because “people got angry at a joke”

    It reminds me when they removed the poem from the tombstone in Pillars of Eternity because it “supposedly” made of trans person, despite the joke being aimed towards the guy who slept with said trans.

  17. Phasmatis75
    April 6, 2016 at 9:59 pm

    Even regular people thought the writing was absolute garbage. They’re basically stripping out the worse elements so that people might actually buy their game.

    Short of a complete overhaul to the entire story with a redone villain, redone dialog, redone character designs, it isn’t going to improve much, but these people probably legitimately think it was all GG and that all they have to do is remove the GG joke and GG will stop using our Devil Powers to block their sales. They’re SJWs and I don’t think they can grasp that the public is legitimately against them. That they are actually wrong.

  18. Phasmatis75
    April 6, 2016 at 9:59 pm

    Don’t count on any meaningful rewrites.

  19. Phasmatis75
    April 6, 2016 at 10:02 pm

    I’ll bet they’re doing this for two reasons.
    1: They legitimately believe GG is an all powerful organization and that they are behind their DLCs extremely poor sales (it didn’t even make top recent releases on steam, that’s almost unheard of for an IP like this). They think removing the GG joke will appease them.

    2: They’re removing it cry censorship by GG so SJWs will rush out and purchase their game. They pandered to them, but like always they didn’t buy their game. It’s a good tactic, but not one that really generates sales and respect from the actual gaming community.

  20. dsadsada
    April 6, 2016 at 10:10 pm

    Someone else in the first article about this even mentioned that the joke can still work if given to another character who I think was said to sound somewhat unhinged by having him go on a long tirade of unrelated things until ending it with the ethics in heroic adventuring line.

    So they could keep their joke and still have it make sense if the guy was right.

  21. Mr. Greis
    Mr. Greis
    April 6, 2016 at 10:11 pm

    Still a broken game, though. No word on fixing that shit.

  22. Casey
    April 6, 2016 at 10:13 pm

    Remove it if you like, we already know how you feel, Beamdog.

    Removing it won’t change the rest of the crappy writing, and I doubt you or your employees learned anything from it.

  23. sanic
    April 6, 2016 at 10:24 pm

    I’m fascinated that they responded this way, I thought they’d double down until they came under so much pressure they turned into a diamond.

  24. Laivasse
    April 6, 2016 at 10:25 pm

    No, if you admit that a part of a creative work is bad, you should seek to better it in subsequent works, not amend it in a horrible neverending George Lucas style revision-fest of past works.

    When a work of creative expression is finished, it’s finished. Otherwise where does it end? Should we revisit Siege of Dragonspear in 2030 and swap out the crappy cultural references for more relevant ones? Should the Keaton Batman films be retroactively tweaked so that he doesn’t kill anyone, in recognition of the fact that internet nerd outrage would never allow that to fly in this day and age? Should all Die Hard DVDs get a patch so that the story makes more sense for kids nowadays, who don’t understand why John McClane can’t make a phone call? That’s one of the artistic facets of a game, or movie, or anything. They reflect the moment and intent they were created with – let them stand on their merits.

    Game mechanics are different. They either work and work well, or they don’t. If they don’t work, then they should be fixed post haste (particularly in multiplayer games where balance is critical). That’s not an issue of artistic integrity because there’s practically zero artistry involved. If the game mechanics work, but they could arguably work better, then there is still a *very strong* argument for not amending the way they work at all. People who are 80 hours deep into single player games shouldn’t have to suddenly add 2 hours of respeccing in order to tailor their gaming around the whims of developer patches.

    Long story short, you have to stand behind your finished work at some point, at least in cases where an ‘evolving vision’ is not part of the package. Long story even shorter, devs should get off social media – or pay somebody to read it for them and make the requisite apologies where appropriate.

  25. Cy
    April 6, 2016 at 10:26 pm

    And yet not a single mention of changing Jaheira’s–a canon Baldur’s Gate character–entire personality because the writers didn’t think it “fit” in 2016, despite this game being a inbetweenquel and totally messing up continuity with the game that canonically comes after it. Which, IMO, is the biggest sin they committed.

    Still, I’m shocked they even bothered to acknowledge that there was anything wrong with the game. Usually SJWs double down and attack everyone criticising them rather than admit they might not be 100% right about something.

  26. Neojames82
    April 6, 2016 at 10:30 pm

    Much too little and much too late, Beamdog. You done fucked up and this is not going to win you over more sales at all.

  27. deadeye
    April 6, 2016 at 10:41 pm

    I could argue that creating game mechanics is actually an art form, but that’s a discussion for another day.

    Not having balancing patches, even for single player games, is incredibly short sighted. Ideally, you shouldn’t have to respec. If you do, then the developers screwed up.

    You might say “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”, but generally there is always some aspect in an RPG that isn’t balanced properly. They might work as they say they do, but perhaps of some other factor, it’s just not viable.

    Only time I can think in recent memory where a developer screwed up is Dark Souls 2 where faith builds were accidentally nerfed into uselessness. Most of the time though, people just bitch about balance patches because they were either using some exploit or some overpowered thing to trivialize a game, and now they actually have to play the game properly.

    Also, you bring up George Lucas, but stuff like the Star Wars prequels and the revised special editions is what happens when you have an artistic tyrant and no one to tell them that their artistic vision is shit.

  28. magicalfollower
    April 6, 2016 at 10:43 pm

    We always were in their eyes (SJWs and Ghazi).
    So it doesn’t change much.

  29. Neojames82
    April 6, 2016 at 10:51 pm

    Even if they remove it, we live in the internet age so it will be archived forever regardless. :D

  30. Neojames82
    April 6, 2016 at 10:58 pm

    They’re blamed for fucking terrorism so its par for the course.

  31. Smug
    April 6, 2016 at 11:01 pm

    It exists and it’s the same thing.

    Now in context, the whole shit about Internet-related jokes, adding a trans character (for the sake of sounding and looking like a progressive moron) and shitting on established characters, shouldnt have happened to a 20-year old game in the first place

  32. luggage lad
    luggage lad
    April 6, 2016 at 11:03 pm

    I want it removed. I don’t want unfunny internet drama jokes in my DnD games

  33. Laivasse
    April 6, 2016 at 11:03 pm

    Some people think Lucas’ new vision is a good idea. One of them is Lucas. Presumably there is more than one person on the planet who shares that vision. He can take his stupid vision and put it into as many future works as he likes, to please those people. The only way the world is diminished, in a cultural and artistic sense, is if he is encouraged to take his stupid vision and use it to change his past works, to please that crowd.

    There is also no workable principle which can be used so that we can say ‘only retcon the bad stuff’. The only sensible thing to do is to suggest that people stand behind what they write. If you decide that you can’t do that because what you wrote is bad, then simply accept that you wrote something bad. It’s not the end of the world. However, constantly changing an existing work to reflect the loudest criticisms of the time will create nothing but an amorphous grey blob of worthlessness which will please nobody.

    The point about balance patches was simply to illustrate that creators are poor at distinguishing the objective and subjective qualities of their work. When a dry, utilitarian aspect of a piece is arguably worth changing, it is also often arguably not worth changing. When it is a creative aspect, the argument is not even worth having. Don’t change it. What’s the point? Are you going to buy BG: SoD now that the #GG reference is gone? I know I’m not.

    “Half the reason Star Wars was good at one time was because people were willing to tell Lucas “this is a stupid fucking idea”.”

    No, that isn’t half the reason that Star Wars was good. I mean from my perspective it was never particularly good, but focus-grouping and design by committee – which is what the modern process of ‘review by social media’ is merely a form of – have never deserved to take the credit for any significant cultural contribution.

  34. deadeye
    April 6, 2016 at 11:16 pm

    I agree that going to a previous work and changing everything that every critic had a problem with is generally not going to lead to an improved product.

    But that’s not what they’re doing.

    As it stands, I just see it as the removal of something that really just shouldn’t have been there anyways.

    Also, Star Wars was initially not the result of focus grouping and design by committee at all. All of the corporate marketing for it came after the movies when Lucas became more interested in selling lunchboxes with the Star Wars named slapped on it.

  35. No_Good_Names_Ever
    April 6, 2016 at 11:37 pm

    Don’t get your hopes up, it’s not like they’ll be able to do any better.

  36. NuclearKangaroo
    April 7, 2016 at 12:08 am

    im not a fan of them removing content at all, hell if i dont like it when it happens to games im interested in, it would be hypocritical if i supported it

    what id like to see instead is beamdog learn from this experience and improve their writing S-P-E-C-I-A-L-L-Y when working with beloved IPs

    i mean if you are going to fill a game with awful jokes and memes, you could atleast use your own original IPs for that

    or if you want to make a political statement, again use your own original IP

    i dont want them to interpret this whole situation as then being persecuted by the Westboro Baptist Church for including a trans character, theres a reason most people didnt have an issue with alphys, undyne and mettaton in undertale, they were well written and entertaining characters

    improve your writing, respect the IPs you are working with, also avoid self-censorship and use your own original IPs if you really have to push some political message accross, those are my suggestions, if confident that, if they do this, their future projects will have a better reception

  37. CC
    April 7, 2016 at 12:08 am

    I disagree. Because the problem I have isn’t that it’s a snarky line, but that it’s a snarky line from a character who literally wouldn’t understand it. Minsc would never ever say something like that, it doesn’t even make sense. If you click enough times on Khalid in the original he’d sometimes go “Ch-ch-chia!” mocking his own stutter.

    The problem is Minsc’s lines are all things like “Butt-kicking for goodness!” or “Who wants some?” or “GO FOR THE EYES BOO RAAAAUGH!” or “Boo likes the forest!”

    “Really it’s actually about ethics in heroic adventuring” doesn’t even fucking make sense. Is it sarcastic? Who even taught him words like that? Minsc has a VERY low Int. score, not helped by getting HUGELY wounded (see the purple bump on his head, not just warpaint….) in the fight with the gnolls who kidnapped Dynaheir. Moreover, the person he has the biggest grudge/conflict with throughout the game — to the point that he will try to KILL if they are in the same party: Is Edwin/a. The character who was already trans without being advertised as such.

    So if Minsc was supposed to portray GamerGate they fucked it up, they fucked it up for all of anti-GG and all pro-GG. If he was supposed to be mocking GG, then it makes EVEN LESS SENSE.

    If they’d had an actual, really sarcastic, snarky character like Garrick say it, then it would have been fine. At least in tone, in lore, and keeping to characterization. Stupid, but IC. The reason they didn’t have Garrick say it though is because he actually is a bit of a sexist douche sometimes. -_-‘ It just really came across that whoever was involved in writing that part has NOT been part of the Baldur’s Gate fandom and isn’t really familiar with the characterization. (Edwina’s lack of acknowledgement hinted at that too…)

  38. CC
    April 7, 2016 at 12:12 am

    Yes. It’s fine if given to an appropriate character. Minsc is not the right one. Not even a little.

  39. CC
    April 7, 2016 at 12:14 am

    Haven’t played the DLC yet, now hesitant. I knew Amber Scott hated Jaheira and wanted to “fix” her, but what did they do exactly??

  40. CC
    April 7, 2016 at 12:15 am

    They said they’re trying. I recommend waiting until they come through. I hit 3 crashes before I gave up on the god damn prologue. Def. wait.

  41. Kainevil Rc
    Kainevil Rc
    April 7, 2016 at 12:23 am

    Point completely missed, yet again. Great job Beamdog!

    I still can’t play Legacy of Bhaal mode or your shitty expansion without corrupting issues and it’s been 6 days since i bought it.

  42. Kainevil Rc
    Kainevil Rc
    April 7, 2016 at 12:25 am

    She changed Safana too LOL

  43. Tyrone Jackson
    Tyrone Jackson
    April 7, 2016 at 12:31 am

    I’m assuming that their launch sales were so BTFO that they had no choice?

  44. Tyrone Jackson
    Tyrone Jackson
    April 7, 2016 at 12:34 am

    There are a billion examples of self censoring in the game industry. Especially out of Japan lately.

  45. Tyrone Jackson
    Tyrone Jackson
    April 7, 2016 at 12:34 am


    Maybe. Probably not, but maybe.

  46. Tyrone Jackson
    Tyrone Jackson
    April 7, 2016 at 12:35 am

    Yeah, people forget that first and foremost, these OG Bioware/Black Isle games are about story and atmosphere.

    If these “jokes” were in some shitty flash game then nobody would care.

  47. Neojames82
    April 7, 2016 at 12:38 am

    Pretty much. Though I don’t think this will be enough to save the game from having poor sales. The damage and scars have already been dealt. After this I don’t think people are going to trust them to do well with BG 3 and I don’t blame them feeling that way at all. I sure as hell won’t ever trust them with any of their future projects, unless there is massive firings all around in the studio.

  48. totenglocke
    April 7, 2016 at 12:48 am

    If they’d admitted they screwed up at the start and would make changes, they’d probably have gotten some good will from gamers. Instead, they spent several days attacking their critics, denying any writing / programming problems, and insisting that only hateful bigots would criticize their masterpiece. No one is going to forgive that.

    I never saw anyone asking for content to be removed, simply backlash for putting in content with the explicit intention of insulting long term fans of the series.

  49. totenglocke
    April 7, 2016 at 12:51 am

    “Sometimes ideas are better in your head and on on paper, then when they actually get into the game, you realize it’s not so good.”

    This is why games used to have beta testers instead of releasing a game and then looking for feedback.

  50. totenglocke
    April 7, 2016 at 12:56 am

    Side A were those of us saying that this DLC sucks and that you should probably avoid it, but people can buy it if they support that type of content. Side B are the SJWs and feminists who rant that the only things that should be sold are things they approve of.

  51. Fear Me I Am Free
    Fear Me I Am Free
    April 7, 2016 at 1:08 am

    Now GG will be blamed for censorship when they have done no such thing. I’d rather they keep it in so we can point to such shoddy work if anyone asked.

  52. Adam Gulledge
    Adam Gulledge
    April 7, 2016 at 1:14 am

    “In retrospect, it would have been better served if we had introduced a transgender character with more development. This is a lesson we will be carrying forward in our development as creators…”

    Somehow, I doubt that. Good creators already know not to do this, and if Scott remains on the team, she’ll plop this stuff into future games as she wants. Said so herself.

    Beamdog, here’s some real advice: Leave old series alone and make your own. You’ll never match the original teams, and you’ve sullied your image with all this crap of the last week, so far fewer will trust your competence from here on.

  53. Mr_SP
    April 7, 2016 at 1:24 am

    Yeah, I thought it was stupid, and it was clearly at best, flawed writing. But I was still going to get it because I’m a sucker for Baldur’s Gate.

    It’s not going to change the quality of the main plot, anyway, so it’s not really changed anything major.

  54. Madbrainbox
    April 7, 2016 at 1:37 am

    “WE have these characters that fans love in this game that is simply adored by many.What should we do about them?-CHANGE THEM!!”

  55. Madbrainbox
    April 7, 2016 at 1:39 am

    I hate the fact they are removing it.Keep it.It’s their vision(no matter how abhorrent that vision is) and they should stick to it.I’m sure there’s an audience for that kinda game.
    Well there isn’t but that’s another story.

  56. Mr_SP
    April 7, 2016 at 1:39 am

    Actually, Edwin/a wouldn’t count because it’s obviously accidental and undesired. He’s “transsexual”, but not transgender, and spends his plot being mocked for it and trying to turn back.

  57. Madbrainbox
    April 7, 2016 at 1:44 am


  58. Mr_SP
    April 7, 2016 at 1:46 am

    Well, actually, in my mind the problem was that a trans person slept with someone under false pretenses… Which is rape.

    I’m not saying they should have gotten rid of it (I’m sure I’ve shrugged off similar stuff), but it was still dark as far as jokes go, and transsexuals trying to trick people is a sore point.

  59. orbo
    April 7, 2016 at 2:15 am

    I have to disagree.
    The line is terrible, in too many ways to count.
    Some might cry censorship over removing it, but the fact is that it has no relevance to anything in any context, adds nothing to the game and in fact takes away from it, and it wasn’t put in for artistic or comedic reasons anyway.
    They just wanted to put in “lol goobergabbers”.
    And if that’s the least of the problems with the writing, that really says a lot about the rest of the script.

  60. Thanatos2k
    April 7, 2016 at 2:25 am

    Tucking their tails between their legs. Now remove and replace the rest of the game with one that works and is written well.

  61. Thanatos2k
    April 7, 2016 at 2:36 am

    They’re learning that acting this way and insulting your player base does have real tangible impacts on their bottom line and they cannot afford to push politics over players.

    I guess gamers weren’t dead after all. Huh.

  62. Thanatos2k
    April 7, 2016 at 2:38 am

    That would be awfully hypocritical. You can pull the “Well I guess you see how it feels to have your games censored” card with impunity.

  63. Thanatos2k
    April 7, 2016 at 2:40 am

    Someone over there must be not insane and screamed at them “THIS IS COSTING US ACTUAL MONEY, STOP ACTING LIKE RETARDS”

  64. Thanatos2k
    April 7, 2016 at 2:42 am

    Why would GG be blamed for censorship. Censorship is fine according to these people. It would be awfully hypocritical…..

  65. CC
    April 7, 2016 at 2:52 am

    Yeah she made Safana a “WOMEN CAN DO NO WRONG” Fairy Stu. Terrible.

  66. CC
    April 7, 2016 at 2:58 am

    Not so. He didn’t initially think of himself as a woman, (of course) but over time he grew to actually PREFER being a woman, and so for the epilogue he goes to get it actually made permanent, and stays that way. Edwina even shows up as a cameo in Dragon Age.

    There’s also the conversation with Sylvanas https://paste.plurk.com/show/jQ8fcLcX3RJsF6g7f3Cj/ and other conversations with Jaheira and Viconia as a woman that give away his preference.

    Not all trans* start off knowing for absolute certainty that they need/want a sex change. Some just find they really do enjoy it better on the other side. Transcendent~

    But that’s why I really loved the way Edwina is written, because it was a slow process of discovery. And she’s still a power-mad EDWIN, there’s no “omfg we must make her FLAWLESS AND PERFECT BECAUSE TRANS CAN NEVER DO NO WRONG!” she’s still evil, but she is a lot nicer as Edwina ;) and even after the fact, rather than seeking power (as Edwin does start to finish) she stays a barmaid.

  67. Mr_SP
    April 7, 2016 at 3:16 am

    Huh. I think i got the “changes back to a man” ending… And I admit that was well over a decade ago, so I can’t remember everything. I certainly don’t remember the plot for the other half of the cast.

  68. LostGryphon
    April 7, 2016 at 3:34 am

    I read black’s reply as sarcastic. >_>

  69. Sevuz
    April 7, 2016 at 3:34 am

    The GG hashtag gets the blame for many things these days in the same way the Nazis blamed the jews for everything. The blame GG is already a joke and is only used by talentless feminist and SJ whiners who can’t make their way in the gaming industry without using the victim card :P

  70. CC
    April 7, 2016 at 3:38 am

    Well they have him turn back at the start of Throne of Bhaal because coding is a biatch, and they had enough issues Jaheira and the romances (oh god did they ever though…) but at the end of ToB that’s his epilogue. ^ Plus like I said the cameo in Dragon’s Age ;)

  71. Mr0303
    April 7, 2016 at 4:55 am

    “Literally worse than ISIS.”

  72. Mr0303
    April 7, 2016 at 4:57 am

    Oh, snap!

  73. Mr0303
    April 7, 2016 at 4:58 am

    I’m pretty sure this post was sarcasm mocking the “not real censorship” people.

  74. Mr0303
    April 7, 2016 at 5:01 am

    It is like putting a bandage on an open wound to the gut.

    In a way this way they’ll try to cry wolf and play the victim. Unfortunately for them SJWs have no market power and won’t improve their sales much.

  75. Jason Mounce
    Jason Mounce
    April 7, 2016 at 5:16 am

    Having a joke is probably all well and good, parodying current trends and the like. Although, when it comes to ‘Gamergate’, usually gamers identify that as a group who’s defending the gaming community at large, to jab at it is to jab at the gaming community itself and hardcore gamers. The very people who are likely the consumers. To add an Anti-GG joke is more of a political statement, a personal and spiteful jab that is more likely inspired by grudges and opinionated perspectives rather than a joke made for all to chuckle about. Gamergate has endlessly been given quite a lot of smearing campaigns to make it look like a joke, but I still recognize GG as a group that was created with positive intent in mind. Media and journalists dragged the name in the dirt to smear and invalidate their power over pointing out dirty truths about corruption in the industry until it became a name instead considered to be a joke. Anyone who thinks GG exists to just be a group full of whiny slanderers is deluded. It will attract toxic and obnoxious individuals, but the purist intent is always one that is with the core belief that no gamer wants their sub-culture to be tarred in corruption and bullshit by outside sources.

  76. Count Calcium
    Count Calcium
    April 7, 2016 at 5:23 am

    GG is so evil. Like do you remember how they attacked this Obsidian game because of a stupid little poem and got it censored with their petitions? Oh wait…

  77. Ubrokemygrill?
    April 7, 2016 at 5:24 am

    Keep the stupid gamergate reference in, I don’t give a shit. It’s not the worst offense. Address the reason people complained about the transexual. The fact that there is no reason to shove their sexuality down your throat, figuratively of course.

    I doubt they’ll address all the other complaints. I’m sure they’re too proud to own up to the host of issues in this “expansion.”

  78. Madbrainbox
    April 7, 2016 at 5:37 am

    The only thing they can do now if they still want to make these kinds of games is to take a long look at inXile and Obsidian and then copy the way they treat their games.

  79. Kainevil Rc
    Kainevil Rc
    April 7, 2016 at 6:22 am

    Apparently according to her women can’t be selfish assholes…. oh wait XD

  80. Kainevil Rc
    Kainevil Rc
    April 7, 2016 at 6:31 am

    They told me i was part of the whole boogeyman hategroup bandwagon scenes and not a *true* baldur’s gate *fan* despite owning the original retail 5 cd game since 1998 after banning me for well deserved criticism of their bugged mess and saying the original game was *problematic* and i didn’t even know what *GG* was….

    Of course i thought they were retarded clowns.

  81. Andrew Krasy
    Andrew Krasy
    April 7, 2016 at 7:35 am

    They should do like the Afro Samurai 2 devs and remove the game from the store and give everyone their money back. But that would require integrity as well.

    Seriously, fuck Beamdog.

  82. Feniks
    April 7, 2016 at 8:04 am

    Oh I believe in artistic license, game devs can do whatever they want.

    The problem here is that they bought the rights of an old franchise and decided to rape it. At least George Lucas was the creator of Star Wars when he made Jar Jar.

    If Beamdog had just made their own original IP you wouldn’t hear a peep from me.

  83. lucben999
    April 7, 2016 at 8:09 am

    The thing is, the writers are clearly anti-GG and they wanted to include the line, there was no pressure to have that.

    It doesn’t matter how terrible it is, it was part of their vision to include it, stupid and awful as it may be, it was their stupid joke.

  84. Feniks
    April 7, 2016 at 8:13 am

    Ah shit yeah. If you criticise this game you’re a bigot now.

  85. Feniks
    April 7, 2016 at 8:15 am

    Ah but SJWs don’t play games so I doubt they ever played Shadows of Amn.

  86. Galbador
    April 7, 2016 at 9:12 am

    Once the damge is done, nothing can make it right again.

  87. totenglocke
    April 7, 2016 at 9:20 am

    Uh, have you seen any Let’s Plays of it? The writing is horrible. I’m a huge fan of the Baldur’s Gate games and I couldn’t bear to watch more than five minutes of the middle school level writing in this DLC. It’s not just the SJW crap that’s a problem with the writing, it’s that (from what I’ve read on multiple reviews / forums) the plot is crap, the villain is crap, and the writing is just terrible in general….which are major flaws for an RPG that’s all about the writing.

  88. totenglocke
    April 7, 2016 at 9:22 am

    I’d rather see Beamdog go bust and inXile get the Baldur’s Gate license. They’ve shown that, in addition to treating their customers well, they make the best damn games they can.

  89. Madbrainbox
    April 7, 2016 at 10:02 am

    I don’t know if they have the time for a new license.If Torment does well they will have 2 successful franchises on their hands.

  90. CC
    April 7, 2016 at 10:08 am

    Was it though? One writer is not the entirety of beamdog. For that matter, it’s incredibly ooc for Minsc, even if they had wanted to stick it in on someone else, at least that would have been more in keeping with the original — something they promised both fans AND ORIGINAL CREATORS they wouldn’t mess up.

    Don’t get so caught up in every detail as to think they’re concrete and therefore sacred canon. Beamdog isn’t the original creators, they’re much more akin to localizers for this time period.

  91. randomdude
    April 7, 2016 at 10:17 am

    Skyrim makes a great example of needing a balance patch, considering they had to cap enchantment and potion buffs after the loop became a thing.

  92. James
    April 7, 2016 at 11:03 am

    Was this actually a big deal to people or did Beamdog and/or journalists make it a big deal? The transexual character, where-ever you stand on the issue, really shouldn’t have been an issue at all. The dialogue wasn’t forced on anyone, in fact it was buried several queries down in a conversation tree and while it could have been handled better no-one would give a shit about a superficially written straight NPC. The ethics line was asking for trouble, but still, it was one line in a script of probably thousands.

  93. Zanard Bell
    Zanard Bell
    April 7, 2016 at 11:16 am

    Maybe now they can focus on the somewhat-buggy launch?

  94. PixelBuff
    April 7, 2016 at 11:22 am

    As I said on Twitter, they should keep the line in because it was their choice creatively, and it should remain forever as a mark of shame.

    This is just another thinly veiled grasp for “Baww, Anita, Kotaku help! Muh GamerGate harassers FORCED us to remove the line!!”

    People were saying it was ham fisted and stupid, they were not saying change it or remove it.

  95. Alistair
    April 7, 2016 at 11:27 am

    It looks like common sense sets in after all, & Amber Scott is still in a job ninty should took note this what should be done told Alison rapp that we change our mind due to negative feedback & your forth wall narrative won’t wash with us.

    & still keep rapp in her job but it the moonlighting in the end that got her sacked.

  96. Eli Wintercross
    Eli Wintercross
    April 7, 2016 at 11:28 am

    But don’t you SEE? It’s 2016 guys! =P

  97. Kainevil Rc
    Kainevil Rc
    April 7, 2016 at 11:37 am

    They’re just using this to back up their bullshit victim statement about
    boogeyman anti feminazi/transgender/sjw hate groups. They
    are still trying to portrait the gaming community like a bunch of
    entitled bigots instead of apologizing for disrespecting the fanbase and
    bastardizing the original work with personal agendas. They’re filth

  98. Lea Pastillaroja
    Lea Pastillaroja
    April 7, 2016 at 11:47 am

    The damage is alrready done, the internet never forgets, no amount of shamless pandering nor attempt at a fix is gonna rebuild all the bridges he burned when he told fans to go fuck themselves

  99. James
    April 7, 2016 at 11:48 am

    Calling them filth, even if the changes are drastic, doesn’t exactly help your point, as it actually makes you look entitled. I feel like there’s a middle ground here, but most of the coverage (and perhaps Beamdog itself) is at one extreme or the other.

  100. Kainevil Rc
    Kainevil Rc
    April 7, 2016 at 11:54 am

    Because that wasn’t really the issue, you’re just another biased victim of the media. They are the ones making up that bullshit story to hide their incompetence and disrespect for source material. You’re always going to find hate groups and trolls in the internet no matter what, it’s easy to use them as a smokescreen for anything. They even started to ban a lot of people from the Steam Forums for criticizing what they did and calling out on their bullshit, but you don’t even know that. That only adds fuel to the flames. If anything, i think they’re trying to gain something from the controverse or their incompetence for handling the criticism.

  101. James
    April 7, 2016 at 11:58 am

    I know there was a lot of arguably valid criticism about re-writing characters/poor writing in general and definitely valid criticism about bugs. But that’s not been the focus in the media. Nor has the banning of people. So I ask again: Do people give a shit about the stuff that’s been focused on or was it Beamdog and/or journalists deflecting the issue? If I’m still missing the real issue then my question is surely even more valid, because it’s been obscured by all this other coverage. Your aggressive stance isn’t helping you get any sort of point across.

  102. James
    April 7, 2016 at 12:07 pm

    It does seem like it could be a smokescreen. I’ll admit my knowledge of the whole thing (and of GG and SJW’s in gaming in general) is quite limited, simply because while I try to read deeper on both sides the most vocal people come across as complete tools and I can’t be bothered to deal with it.

  103. Kainevil Rc
    Kainevil Rc
    April 7, 2016 at 12:10 pm

    It’s propaganda, you won’t find neutral grounds on sites like Kotaku/Polygon/any sensationalist site. Can’t get more obvious than that. Who gives a shit? The fanbase of course since they were the ones who got insulted/bashed by Beamdog. Everyone else is just trying to get attention from their lack of proffessionalism on handling the matter.

  104. alterku
    April 7, 2016 at 12:10 pm

    SJW’s don’t buy video games. Because they don’t play video games.

  105. Kainevil Rc
    Kainevil Rc
    April 7, 2016 at 12:19 pm


    14 minutes ago

    Originally posted by lpconfig:Well,
    at least he is willing to admit tha the line was a bit out of
    character. Still, censoring it should not have been required.
    Basically they took a bad expansion with weird line and turned it into
    bad expansion without weird line. It really looks like a
    very convenient way to keep the blame on the supposed GamerGate
    aggressors. I’m usually not this cynical, but unless they come right out
    and acknowledge that *everyone* has various legitimate issues with the
    game and that Minsc’s line was the last thing on most people’s minds,
    it’s hard not to think they’re still using GG to distract the public
    from the real issues.


  106. Kainevil Rc
    Kainevil Rc
    April 7, 2016 at 1:24 pm

    Damage control imminent:


    14 minutes ago

    When I went to bed last night, there were 450+ negative reviews of
    the expansion. Now there are only 280. #lulz #beinglibtarded

  107. Huck
    April 7, 2016 at 1:31 pm

    Definitely agree with 1st point, sadly your 2nd point was their first instinct (crying out to Sarkesian and twitter to be saved from “bullies”) and it obviously failed to help beyond getting tweets.

    If today’s response was their initial one, they probably would not have lost so many sales. Just acknowledging the other sides opinion, promising to make some very minor updates to address it would have stemmed the shitstorm.

  108. Kainevil Rc
    Kainevil Rc
    April 7, 2016 at 1:38 pm

    Originally posted by Last Order:”Beamdog
    released a horrible buggy poorly written game” Misaka as Misaka says
    wearily. “But instead of owning up to their failure handling the
    development of an ancient game they latched on to a few comments about
    the bad writting shoehorning in a character that doesn’t make sense in
    universe and started sperging out on twitter that anyone that didn’t
    like their horrible buggy poorly written game was Worse than Hitler™ and
    asking people to game the system and give their horrible buggy poorly
    written game good reviews.” Misaka as Misaka says commenting on the
    cynical and incestuous interplay of developers and progressive social
    justice advocates. Misaka as Misaka conclude by saying, “They then had
    game ‘jounalists’ push the narrative that the only people who are
    opposed to their horrible buggy poorly written game, are broadly written
    stereotypes. However when everything backfired they issued a sorry not
    sorry and promised to remove the lines that they insisted were
    offensive, instead of patching their horrible buggy poorly written

  109. PutiTawo
    April 7, 2016 at 1:47 pm

    A few steps forward, miles yet to go before this actually becomes an acceptable BG game.
    At this point, I pretty much have to say “damage done” and move on; short of a total rewrite and very public apology, I don’t see Beamdog receiving a single cent from me, either for this game or anything else they put out. Their agenda is clear, and changing a few of the token issues does not repair the more egregious aspects of their figurative rape of a once great classic.

  110. PutiTawo
    April 7, 2016 at 1:53 pm

    Except what if the bad work itself was initially a “George Lucas style revision-fest” of a past classic? Rewriting characters’ personalities because you find them personally distasteful certainly falls under that category. Pulling that sort of rewrite definitely calls for an “oops, we’ll put it back how it was” fix, especially when the characters in question weren’t theirs to mess with in the first place.

  111. PutiTawo
    April 7, 2016 at 2:26 pm

    The problem is that these fixes really don’t change anything, as it still IS written poorly.
    All this will do is remove the scapegoats, so they will no longer have anywhere to point fingers and misdirect from the fact that they made an all-round terrible game.

  112. PutiTawo
    April 7, 2016 at 2:32 pm

    This, a thousand times. If Beamdog puts Jaheira, Safana, and any others they’ve messed with back how they were, and maybe if they fire Amber Scott, maybe then I’ll consider buying this. Until then, 1)I don’t support bad characters/stories masquerading as well known and loved characters/stores, 2)nor do I pay SJW to preach to me about how awful I am just because of my race/gender, as to do so is to literally fund racism and sexism.

  113. Pheria
    April 7, 2016 at 2:35 pm

    So they made a game they wanted, a ‘vocal minority’ stirred things up, controversy ensues as news coverage increases, company steps in to make changes following complaints probably setting a precedent for future, similar titles.

    Sounds kind of familiar.

  114. Kainevil Rc
    Kainevil Rc
    April 7, 2016 at 2:39 pm


    22 minutes ago

    Call it for what it is: an ideological push from untalented, fervently insane hacks.

    knew what they were doing. More importantly, they knew what they were
    doing to the Baldur’s Gate IP. They simply didn’t care.

    They’re insane, not stupid.

  115. Nitesco
    April 7, 2016 at 2:44 pm

    I agree with keeping in the cringey “ethics” joke for those reasons (although there’s apparently dialogue that’s actually worse). Regardless of removing it or not, it’s out there now, people will always know about it, and that’s punishment enough.

  116. MGNoxa
    April 7, 2016 at 3:52 pm

    I wish… What happened isn’t helping the situation. It’s cool to see them listen to the real fans but altering the content is everything GamerGate is against.

    The real problem is that the developers caused this with bad writing and messing up a game with a loyal fanbase, but the focus is going to be on “Anti-Censorship group GamerGate censors developer!”

    I just wish that video games could release without anyone having to worry about anything being butchered.

  117. Mr_SP
    April 7, 2016 at 3:52 pm

    I’m gonna wait until it’s selling for cheap.

    I was this close to getting the Collectors Edition, even knowing that it comes with a game I already have at full price (BG1:EE), and a soundtrack I’ll never listen to, for far too much… and then they told me it would be $45 to ship it internationally.

    Really, Beamdog? $US175 for that? It was a hard sell already, but not even I’m that much of a sucker. Maybe they’ll sell it at discount when they find their limited stock is not that limited, or I’ll find it on ebay or something.

    I’ll probably play it, I’m just… not in a hurry. It’s not as if Steam’s going to run out of copies.

  118. PrincessOfTheCrystal
    April 7, 2016 at 5:22 pm

    They admitted it after GG tried to tank their game with negative reviews.

    I’m really getting sick of how flatly dishonest GG is about everything. Yeah you say it’s about “bad writing” but I’ve seen these arguments taken out and put to rest dozens of times at this stage. It doesn’t hold up. The character would never have received the attention she did if she wasn’t trans, and it shouldn’t be up to cisgender GG pissbabies to decide how best to portray a trans character anyway.

    The “inclusion” of yet another grizzly straight white guy can never be “hamfisted” of course. This is what pisses me off. GGers are completely unable to step outside of themselves to the extent where they instead just get other people to think like them so they can have token minorities to point at to justify their bullshit(which is ironic given the accusations leveled at this character).

  119. Softclocks
    April 8, 2016 at 4:51 am

    I suppose I’m more or less satisfied with this.

    Though I really do wish these things, ‘gaming controversies’, wouldn’t just turn into a contest between who can be offended the most.

  120. realraven2000
    April 8, 2016 at 8:32 am

    Lighten up. ALl this content censoring is sucking the fun out of gaming.

  121. Laivasse
    April 8, 2016 at 2:58 pm

    Unfortunately the characters are theirs to mess with now. They apparently have the rights to release new content under this IP, so they can stick Valygar in a BlackLivesMatter shirt and rewrite Branwen as FemThor if they like.

    Siege of Dragonspear is new content. There is no “putting it back how it was”, because there was no point where Beamdog’s writing was any good, nor is it possible to go back to having the original creators being in charge of the franchise. Trying to nix their most egregiously bad writing ideas is pointless and won’t magically transform the rest of this lead into gold. Objecting to them doing whatever the hell they want with the writing simple stifles their (poor quality) freedom of expression.

    The ‘Enhanced Editions’ are NOT and have never been the original BG that fans know and love. Had everybody recognised the EE versions for the shameless cash grabs they were and simply ignored them, then we might not be in this situation where hacks are releasing half-baked mimicry and retconning under the logo of a beloved series. If people want to object to the *real* desecration of Baldur’s Gate, then object to the fact that soon only the only way to experience BG will be via the Beamdog versions, as I understand GOG may soon have to remove the originals from their store.

  122. PutiTawo
    April 8, 2016 at 3:31 pm

    I find it rather disingenuous and more than a little hypocritical that you claim to be opposed to a “Lucas style revision”, for which the referenced revision was the work of the original creator, yet you support Beamdog’s complete rewrite of characters’ personalities simply because they bought the rights to the property, yet never were in fact the originators of said characters.
    While the story is not the same, the characters are, and they should have retained their personalities and characteristics as written. That’s what I meant by “put it back the way it was”. Beamdog may not be capable of writing themselves out of a wet paper bag, but they could at least have left certain characters alone instead of deliberately altering them to fit their (Beamdog’s) own political view/agenda.

  123. Laivasse
    April 8, 2016 at 5:15 pm

    Yes, opposed to post hoc revisionism, unopposed to people having the freedom to write badly. You can’t claim ‘they changed the original, because they changed the original characters’, when the characters are in a new story and setting. Fictional characters change hands between companies and writers constantly, in the process losing their… well, their original character.

    Until the Beamdog EE cashgrabs and the new expansion replace the originals, there is no revisionism, only a different, crappier version of the same product (with accompanying spinoff) released by a completely different company. Thus no equivalence to Lucas, who sought to make his newer versions definitive.

    However in the age of digital storefronts, the risk of these bastardised versions replacing the originals is real. I opposed that outcome by never giving Beamdog a penny. As a stickler for consistency of principle, I hope you did the same. Much as I’d kill to see a new great Baldur’s Gate game, the writing was on the wall when I saw what passed for ‘enhancements’ in BG: EE1&2. Unfortunately, the Enhanced Editions seem to have been popular enough to warrant the expansion, and so here we are.

    I guess some fans hope Beamdog will replicate the tone and atmosphere of the originals, by dint of having enough stern gazes watching over their shoulder to ‘correct’ the very worst stuff…? Good luck with that, sincerely.

  124. Kainevil Rc
    Kainevil Rc
    April 8, 2016 at 7:54 pm

    I’d say that if the old version works perfectly for you, play that instead of anything from SwjDog

  125. Kainevil Rc
    Kainevil Rc
    April 8, 2016 at 7:59 pm

    Sipseyhiker9 hours ago
    +Piotr S The damned tranny is just one symptom. It’s the whole leftist propaganda. The line by Minsc, every line by Safana, Jaheira, Viconia, or Corwin. The refugee dialogue – hell, pretty much every line of text pushes some real world agenda and forces the player to accept the SJW opinion. Accept the poor refugees, accept the theft of your gold, it went to a good cause. I also enjoyed being called a racist. Ignore the SJW crap, and it’s STILL a horrible game. A 3rd grader could have written better dialogue. How they let one feminazi destroy such a classic game is beyond me. But it goes deeper than one idiot. The developers begging for good reviews and banning people for merely holding an opposing opinion will not endear them to their customers.

    Also, I agree, Bethshita ruined Fallout. I have never, nor will I purchase Fallout 3 or 4.

  126. KefkaFollower
    April 8, 2016 at 8:45 pm

    They made the game they wanted by changing a well stablished IP.

    If you hurt the lore and brain wash well stablised characters the original fans will complain.

    So, no, its not the same.

  127. Kainevil Rc
    Kainevil Rc
    April 8, 2016 at 10:40 pm


    Is there a choice were the PC doesn’t get triggered or at least tries to be funny?

  128. Mr. Greis
    Mr. Greis
    April 10, 2016 at 5:24 am

    That’s the funniest thing about this; the old version actually works better than theirs, without the unofficial patches.

  129. PutiTawo
    April 11, 2016 at 3:15 pm

    You’re satisfied with a token gesture that barely even begins to address the core problems with the game and the personal political opinions shoved into the “writing” from start to finish?

    I hope that most other gamers are not so easily placated, or our hobby is doomed.

  130. Qb P
    Qb P
    April 19, 2016 at 12:39 pm

    Wait I thought you freaks didn’t like censorship

  131. CanofSand
    May 7, 2016 at 2:13 pm

    Really, I want BEAMDOG removed. I want all of the people who thought this garbage was “okay” to be removed from any job that allows them to spread that attitude and never receive such a job again. But “want” versus “demand” is a big difference.

  132. Steve Howard
    Steve Howard
    May 13, 2016 at 12:20 pm

    Yet another hateful christian with his message of ill will
    to creation. These are hypocrites folks, evil people who do not follow the
    teachings of their pacifist god.

    Mathew 5:38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye
    and a tooth for a tooth.’ 39 But I say to you, Do not resist an evildoer. But
    if anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn the other also; 40 and if anyone
    wants to sue you and take your coat, give your cloak as well; 41 and if anyone
    forces you to go one mile, go also the second mile. 42 Give to everyone who
    begs from you, and do not refuse anyone who wants to borrow from you. 43
    “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate
    your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who
    persecute you.”