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A New Study Reveals that Video Games Don’t Make You Sexist

senran kagura estival versus 04-07-15-2

This is an editorial piece. The views and opinions expressed in this article are those of the author and do not necessarily represent the views and opinions of, and should not be attributed to, Niche Gamer as an organization.

The video game industry, being a newer form of media, has consistently been under fire by outside parties that have tried to associate the entire trade, its workers, and its fans, to various derogatory claims and misnomers.

First it was that video games would make you lose your faith in God and become a satanist (or gasp, an agnostic or atheist), which later got disproved. Next came the politicians and naysayers alike that proclaimed violent games would breed sociopaths and or serial killers (also disproved), and finally third wave feminists and ignoramuses that claimed sexualized video games would make you sexist, misogynistic, or even worse – a rapist.

Now, we have a study published over on the National Institutes of Health, which asked this very same question: can video games make you sexist, or any of the aforementioned horrors? The study was conducted over three years, instead of previous studies which only focused on cross-sectional or experimental work, typically up to one month at best. The study also makes a note of similar studies done in the past being focused on violent content.

The new study confirmed the following:

“It was found that sexist attitudes-measured with a brief scale assessing beliefs about gender roles in society-were not related to the amount of daily video game use or preference for specific genres for both female and male players.”

So while this isn’t the end-all results that we need to stop the incessant yammering that says looking at bouncing anime breasts will make you a serial rapist, or that playing Hitman: Absolution will automatically make you a misogynistic woman hater/murderer, it’s certainly something. Most of us just want to play video games, regardless of our gender, race, or preferred genre – and we simply want “good” games, games that cater to our interests.

It’s worth mentioning this study was addressing these concerns through the ever-hilarious cultivation theory lens, meaning the very same people that believe fiction can literally warp your perception of reality. These are the same people that say watching Dennis the Menace will lead to us wanting to murder children (because who doesn’t get worked up at Mr. Wilson yelling), or that gangster rap with lyrics about shooting people will make us want to go murder our enemies.

Case in point:

senran kagura estival versus 04-07-15-1

This is the latest form of Daidōji, one of the older kunoichi from the Senran Kagura series, whose above design will be seen in Senran Kagura: Estival Versus (when she is added as downloadable content). The girls in Senran Kagura aren’t meant to be realistic in the same way that commentators praised Lara from the Tomb Raider reboot, they’re just meant to be fun, and enjoyable characters. What’s more, they’re all well written, have their own stories, loves, hopes, and dreams.

Most uneducated gamers or non-gamers alike could very well easily look at Daidōji and instantly think her disgusting, or even worse, her creators and fans as disgusting simply for how she is designed. Going back to that insane cultivation theory, these very same people might turn around and say that simply enjoying her as a character will make you a misogynist, without you even realizing it! Don’t you realize how completely insane this is?

It’s so very strange to me, when I see the very same games journalists who proudly fought and championed the right for gamers to enjoy violent games without repercussions do an about face and say games like Senran Kagura automatically make you sexist. They champion the words of Jonathon McIntosh filtered through Anita Sarkeesian’s mouth, but I don’t think they fully realize what they’re saying. I don’t think they realize just how crazy their entire methodology really is.

mortal kombat x 04-07-15-1

Now, when you see games like Mortal Kombat X revel in its embrace of mutilation, blood, and gore – the same “outrage police” won’t bat an eyelash. That battle was won ten years ago, and it came at the cost of almost nothing, save those death threats lobbed at vocal anti-violent game activist Jack Thompson. The irony is that people like Jack simply wanted better ratings enforcement, while the new wave of outraged commentators use deceptive tactics to shame, bully, and ultimately censor their opponents.

I want to make it clear that I am one hundred percent behind the ratings system – it’s there for a reason, to help both the underage’s caretakers and the of-age to educate themselves prior to buying a game. The issue here is that former opponents of video games simply wanted to make it harder for kids to get their hands on Grand Theft Auto, while the new blood simply wants to keep screaming about what they don’t like in Grand Theft Auto until the game is changed. See the difference?

We now live in an era where people no longer respect the vision of the author or creator. The end result of a creator’s passion is surely open to criticism and debate, but what we’re seeing here is an honest to goodness lobbying to fundamentally change an industry whose consumer base is wildly different in taste and behavior to conform to the needs of an outspoken few. We now continually hear about how game X is sexist, game Y is degrading to women, game B has an inappropriate rape scene, etc. Who cares?

senran kagura estival versus 04-07-15-4

If we let these people have their way, we’ll no longer need a rating system because we’ll have replaced it with a cultural committee – you know, people who are going to completely analyze every piece of every game, before the public is even able to consume it. Let’s not forget that this cultural committee is harboring their own biases, so don’t even think you’ll be getting a fair judgement on a game you were interested in!

This is a minor victory – hopefully we have more of them in the future. Never give up hope, never stop enjoying the video games that you can enjoy, and please – never let anyone tell you that you’re wrong for enjoying a video game, just because they don’t approve of it.

,

About

Owner and Publisher at Niche Gamer and Nicchiban. Outlaw fighting for a better game industry. Pronouns: Patriarch, Guido, Olive, Catholic



93 comments
  1. Patrick Toworfe
    Patrick Toworfe
    April 7, 2015 at 9:43 pm

    Great article. You raised relevant points about how outrage is constantly being spewed over games either being sexist or causing sexism, when it’s just as absurd as the violence in games thing. Not that this study will change anyone’s mind that already thinks games create misogynists, but it’s definitely the sort of thing I like to see: cold, hard facts.

  2. Doc Hammer
    Doc Hammer
    April 7, 2015 at 9:44 pm

    Thanks for bringing an editorial voice to this information Brandon.

  3. Nick_Soapdish
    Nick_Soapdish
    April 7, 2015 at 9:45 pm

    We got 99 problems but video games causing sexism aint one.

  4. Domhnall
    Domhnall
    April 7, 2015 at 9:46 pm

    Another new study reveals that water is wet!

    …I kid, I kid. More scientific papers help to disprove the narrative that’s gotten hold in some parts these last few years and I’m always happy to see more of them. I’m just sad it ever even came to require such things, and that so few of the moral outragists will bother to give them the time they deserve.

  5. Eritach
    Eritach
    April 7, 2015 at 9:56 pm

    A good read, well done Brandon. Couldn’t have written it any better myself.

  6. Dr. Applebox
    Dr. Applebox
    April 7, 2015 at 10:02 pm

    “Now, when you see games like Mortal Kombat X revel in its embrace of mutilation, blood, and gore – the same “outrage police” won’t bat an eyelash.”

    I seen you’ve been spared the true horror of #FullMcIntosh.

  7. Brandon Orselli
    Brandon Orselli
    April 7, 2015 at 10:11 pm

    INTERESTING. However, I think female representation in video games is WAY higher on their agenda than violence. Fighting against violence gets WAY less support than the sexuality thing, because the sexuality thing is a hot new topic. It’ll die out eventually and no one will care anymore, I hope at least.

  8. Kevin McConnell
    Kevin McConnell
    April 7, 2015 at 10:17 pm

    Hear, hear!

  9. waka3333
    waka3333
    April 7, 2015 at 10:21 pm

    Josh doesn’t count, he doesn’t even live in this dimension. He just happens to have a puppet that just parrots his stupidity and access to this dimension’s twitter somehow.

    But yes I did see him complaining about Bloodborne as well. Apparently the game is bad because you kill stuff in it and probably some BS about toxic masculinity in other tweets I didn’t see. His impossible stupidity is almost becoming predictable.

  10. Brandon Orselli
    Brandon Orselli
    April 7, 2015 at 10:22 pm

    Thank you! Yeah it made me happy to see a real study on it, so I jumped on it!

  11. Brandon Orselli
    Brandon Orselli
    April 7, 2015 at 10:22 pm

    Thanks, yeah I felt like just doing a cut and dry post about it wouldn’t be sufficient enough, it needed some extra talking points :)

  12. Sylveria Shini
    Sylveria Shini
    April 7, 2015 at 10:30 pm

    Will it change the minds of the vocal and willfully ignorant? No, but when they, inevitably, try to legislate this kind of crap like they did with violence, studies like this are what we need to shut them down.

  13. Carl B.
    Carl B.
    April 7, 2015 at 10:31 pm

    That’s how you open an article. Toilet paper rolls up your butt.

    +10

  14. sanic
    sanic
    April 7, 2015 at 11:16 pm

    I don’t really think the people claiming games caused sexism cared about scientific evidence but it’s still a feather in my cap.

  15. NeoTechni
    NeoTechni
    April 7, 2015 at 11:50 pm

    The mob justice warriors have already made up their excuses to ignore this.

    The aforementioned joshintosh said “facts do not equal the truth”
    Leigh “obtuse hyperwailing ****slinger” Alexander’s changed her claim from games cause sexism to games are marketed towards the sexist

  16. deadeye
    deadeye
    April 8, 2015 at 12:13 am

    This is pretty much no different than “rock and roll is the devils music”.

    People will realize how silly they were, and the ones that still cling to this notion won’t be taken seriously.

    I’m glad this was done, but it honestly won’t do any good. People will say that the tests were somehow biased or will just completely ignore it.

    I mean, video games have conclusively shown to not turn perfectly normal kids into serial killers, yet you still have people that think violent video games can do just that.

  17. Joel Leonheart
    Joel Leonheart
    April 8, 2015 at 12:22 am

    I hope so I’n the mean time I’l try enjoying the entertainment etc. That seems to make me feel better abouth this existance

  18. Touma
    Touma
    April 8, 2015 at 12:56 am

    this is an overwhelming surprised. said no one ever………anyone who isn’t insane that is.

  19. Mr0303
    Mr0303
    April 8, 2015 at 1:32 am

    Unless it is violence against women. Since MKX has female characters it is a bit problematic.

  20. Dewey Defeats Truman
    Dewey Defeats Truman
    April 8, 2015 at 1:50 am

    Claiming Senran Kagura or Dragon’s Crown is sexist because it shows well endowed women is sexist as hell. It’s implying that women that have large breasts can’t have any value as characters. I hear people constantly saying we need more women protagonists but whenever you show them one all they do is complain. I mean, does Beyond Good and Evil just not exist? Do the Touhou games not count?

    I guess every female protagonist should be like the one from Remember Me, a game so ironically bland that nobody remembers it came out just a year or two ago. Hell, even I wouldn’t remember it if it weren’t for the hilariously inappropriate name. There’s nothing in this world worse than something being bland, being forgettable, inducing apathy in a viewer. But being bland and forgettable is all you’ll have if you try to make sure nothing ever offends anybody.

  21. Nettacki
    Nettacki
    April 8, 2015 at 2:02 am

    You all miss the point. They’re not saying “games cause sexism.” They’re saying “games have some sexist elements that reinforce the sexism that already exists.” Big difference.

  22. Brotaku
    Brotaku
    April 8, 2015 at 2:03 am

    Horrible sites like Kotaku don’t seem to be able to grasp this concept.

  23. Nonscpo
    Nonscpo
    April 8, 2015 at 2:03 am

    That’s still not good enough Brandon, every game needs a disclaimer, cause ratings just arent enough ;)

  24. MT Silver
    MT Silver
    April 8, 2015 at 2:52 am

    I thought it was a candle…

  25. Kiryu
    Kiryu
    April 8, 2015 at 2:57 am

    And they needed a study to find out the obvious?

  26. Kiryu
    Kiryu
    April 8, 2015 at 3:01 am

    Different era,different topic,same tactics yes.

  27. deadeye
    deadeye
    April 8, 2015 at 3:02 am

    There are absolutely people claiming video games cause sexism.

    But even so, I don’t know of any sexist elements in video games at large. I mean actual sexism, not attractive women or women being harmed in some way.

    I’ve never played a game and thought “wow, these developers really don’t like women”.

  28. Anonymous
    Anonymous
    April 8, 2015 at 3:17 am

    Yeah but it sure took the gaming community longer than it should have to realize that it was being fed a bunch of nonsense by the SJW tabloids out there.

    Back in the days of “games are heresy, they cause atheism/drugs/violence!” it was a very clear division, the players knew it was all nonsense but the media was determined to push that stuff anyway and only the outsiders that had no idea or contact with the industry would fall for obvious lies.

    But now the same old garbage comes back under a different slogan and because it came from places gamers used to trust they believed it for a while.
    Heck, some people still believe it.
    And that’s quite a shame.

  29. Steven Sanchez
    Steven Sanchez
    April 8, 2015 at 3:49 am

    This needs to be read by as many people as we can. It’s high time we stop demonizing games because they feature beautiful or sexy people men or women. News flash, an image of a video game boob will not end the world.

  30. TheCynicalReaper
    TheCynicalReaper
    April 8, 2015 at 3:53 am

    Nice work, mate.
    Hot damn is Senran Kagura just perfect

  31. JackDandy
    JackDandy
    April 8, 2015 at 4:14 am

    It’s a ninja scroll, you ninkompoops! Haven’t you ever been to JAPAN!?

  32. Nettacki
    Nettacki
    April 8, 2015 at 4:41 am

    Sexism isn’t necessarily limited to developers intending to go out of their way to show how much they hate women. Being unintentionally sexist is a thing, too, as is being sexist in subtle ways that are difficult to notice at first.

    Nor is it really anything to do with attractive women or women being harmed. It’s the context and the overarching trends of these cliched portrayals of women that people consider sexist.

    Stuff like how women are commonly depicted as damsels that need to be rescued, or if not that, one-dimensional characters (if you can call them that) that only really exist for a male figure and no one else (not even themselves), just to name a few. Sure, a single instance of either one of these things happening isn’t sexist, but if it happens enough times across all media, it can come off as such, no matter how good the developers’ intentions are. This is why Death of the Author and multiple interpretations are a thing.

  33. Nettacki
    Nettacki
    April 8, 2015 at 4:42 am

    Good thing not everyone criticizing games for being sexist are actually saying “because people are too sexy,” right?

  34. Nettacki
    Nettacki
    April 8, 2015 at 4:51 am

    The games you mention do exist, but what people are looking for is those sorts of protagonists being more common in the AAA gaming space than they currently are. They want the portrayals in that space to be more numerous so as to balance out the characters that are designed primarily (but not only) for eye candy or as a goal.

    They want variety, not *just* fanservicey ladies with big breasts as their main characteristic or “bland,” nonsexualized women with barely any memorable character to speak of (no idea if the lady from Remember Me is really like that, so I’ll take your assessment of her with a grain of salt). You don’t have to be bland and forgettable to not offend people. Great, memorable characters can be made without having to give them big breasts or unnecessarily sexualize them in ways that would never be done to similar male characters.

  35. Narmy
    Narmy
    April 8, 2015 at 5:05 am

    Why would risk-averse AAA developers bother trying to make more female characters, when no character they could design will be good enough for these hyper-critical SJWs? The outrage culture that scrutinizes every aspect of a female character is harming female representation in gaming the most. It’s much safer to just stick with a male character, and they have more creative freedom using a male, to boot.

  36. Zizal
    Zizal
    April 8, 2015 at 5:33 am

    They are not women they are fictional characters. Drawing women characters for eye candy isn’t sexist. They draw them like that because men LIKE women. You can love someone for many qualities in person. You can love someone for his body shape or personality or his skills or his money or his color or even for no reason. Men in average are stronger than women it’s the truth unless you live in denial. How is rescuing women means you hate women?Men and Women aren’t equal and will never be equal. That doesn’t mean that it’s something bad since they have their special qualities. Having character with no personality doesn’t mean it’s sexist. It just mean it’s bad.Mario has no personality but you will never see people cry about that. Some games are made to target specific audience and people need to understand that. Not every game needs to cater to your tastes.If women or men or POC need a video game or ficitonal stories to let them feel good about themselves might as well commit suicide.

  37. AsatorPrime
    AsatorPrime
    April 8, 2015 at 6:28 am

    Great article

  38. Carl B.
    Carl B.
    April 8, 2015 at 6:38 am

    Sometimes, you gotta use whatever you can to wipe that butt. Even ancient haikus.

  39. Derp
    Derp
    April 8, 2015 at 7:25 am

    It’s very demoralizing to see so many people agree with articles like this or throw around words like “facts” or “science” that are meant to give this weight like it has changed the validity of such “studies” suddenly when they agree with one’s own opinion, when if this “study” said the general opposite it’d be the same people trying to debunk it, for instance like this one: http://spp.sagepub.com/content/2/1/29.abstract

    I’d rather not support any shitty “research” whatsoever, but disvow it entirely. So the next time some moron comes out and says the exact opposite because of three slightly different phone questions on the DurpaDurp scale of “sexism” I don’t have to deal with cognitive dissonance.

    If you want to know how they got their “results”, this is apparently it:
    “Sexist attitudes were measured with three items from the German translation of the sex-role orientation scale by Brogan and Kutner, using a scale ranging from 1 = ‘‘strongly disagree’’ to 5 = ‘‘agree completely’’.” Higher agreement indicated stronger sexist attitudes

    They employed a “gender ideology scale” from 1976 by Donna Brogan and Nancy G. Kutner where they posed questions and then measured someone’s “sexism” by how they answered: https://books.google.de/books?id=ICxaknocMFwC&pg=PA525&lpg=PA525&dq=Brogan+and+Kutner+scale#v=onepage&q=Brogan%20and%20Kutner%20scale&f=false

    What questions were asked over the phone from the same (900+) people in the variance of 3 years that video games should apparently have changed their opinion on?
    “1.The man should be responsible for all major decisions made in a family.

    2.In a group of male and female members, a man should take on the leadership.

    3.Even if both partners work, the woman should be responsible for taking care of the household.”

    What does this tell us about video games causing “sexism” or anything else? Absolutely nothing, it’s an absolute waste of research funds and everyone’s time. There’s one thing this tells us yet again though – Fuck social sciences.

  40. Pete D
    Pete D
    April 8, 2015 at 8:08 am

    Good work, Brandon; sadly, we both know this won’t be the end of discussion on the matter, but those of us who are sick of the whole “waaah misogyny” crowd can at least count this as a small victory. (Clarification: not because we’re misogynists, but because we just want to be able to get on and enjoy the damn games we love without people yelling at us for it.)

    The odious McIntosh (and, by extension, Sarkeesian) has spoken out against violence as well as sexism, though it’s interesting to note that this angle isn’t covered with nearly much aplomb by the press as the sexism angle. As you say, that battle was “won” years ago for better or worse, which has led to the gross hypocrisy we see on a daily basis now where, say, people don’t give a crap about the fact that Senran Kagura involves women beating the crap out of each other, but instead focus all their attention on the fact that waaaah, they’re curvy women with big boobs and they show their panties!

    I’m so tired of all this. I just want this stupid “culture war” to be over and for people to be able to enjoy the games they enjoy without other people interfering. I have no objection to the “art games” crowd wanting to make games about homosexuality, dysphoria, depression, delusions, whatever — in fact, some of those experiences, when done well, can be fascinating experiences — but I do object to people telling me what I can and cannot like.

    There is room for everyone in games. That doesn’t mean every game has to appeal to everyone. In fact, I’d rather it didn’t; what a bland and boring world it would be if they did.

  41. IT Weeb
    IT Weeb
    April 8, 2015 at 8:45 am

    The first step is dismissing this ridiculous idea that boys will not play as girls in video games. Sure, they’ll pick the male avatar as a choice most of the time because that is representation of themselves in the game, however, I can honestly say I have never met anyone who would shy away from a game with a female only protagonist if the game is a worthwhile.

    No one destroyed their Metroid carts after discovering that Samus was a girl and I’m fairly sure Super Metroid’s sales didn’t suffer as a result.

  42. IT Weeb
    IT Weeb
    April 8, 2015 at 8:48 am

    “Facts do not equal truth”

    I’m fairly certain I’ve heard the same sort of talk on creationist forums.

  43. NeoTechni
    NeoTechni
    April 8, 2015 at 8:57 am

    You should have put that in a haiku.

  44. MaidKillua
    MaidKillua
    April 8, 2015 at 9:34 am

    Well ignoring the rest of your comment simply because i’m too lazy, you are aware that the vast majority of male videogame characters are also one dimensional and shit right? As if Mario has more of a personality than Peach, or every bald marine isn’t a generic cardboard cutout?

  45. MaidKillua
    MaidKillua
    April 8, 2015 at 9:39 am

    While I would argue that some people (myself included) just find excessive and unnecessary sexual content uncomfortable and offputting, i’m also aware that not everything has to appeal to everyone

    But like, there is a case to be made for non-sexualised female characters, it’s just not the case SJW’s are making. Honestly if they just said “I don’t wanna look at tits and ass all day” instead of accusing people of misogyny their complaints would probably be taken more seriously

    Having said that, ass and titty games are such a small minority that i’m very much confused by their inability to find games with female protagonists that aren’t like that. It’s almost as if they’re *dramatic noise* cherry picking!. lol

  46. RetroGamer
    RetroGamer
    April 8, 2015 at 10:06 am

    In addition to rock being evil, don’t forget that D&D is a gateway into the occult that makes teenagers kill themselves.

  47. ghostlife
    ghostlife
    April 8, 2015 at 10:44 am

    And if feminists actually bought video games, the developers would change characters to match their desires. But they don’t, and the companies have to make money.

  48. V Whitaker
    V Whitaker
    April 8, 2015 at 2:19 pm

    Clearly this study was conducted by young men laboring under the socially and morally deforming effects of ‘toxic masculinity’. *sigh*

  49. V Whitaker
    V Whitaker
    April 8, 2015 at 2:48 pm

    And though you have articulated a very reasonable point and one that would garner a civil debate in most gaming communities that is not what we have been hearing.

    What we’ve been hearing is that because a small group of vocal idiots insist on focusing attention on themselves by making threats and doxxing people that gamers are obviously against women (I am a woman, by the way). That our hobby is detrimental to the mental, social and moral well-being of those who indulge in it. Gamers are being portrayed as drooling, anti-social ‘man-babies’ that are threatened by strong women and are on a seek and destroy mission when women come anywhere near their ‘turf’.

    There is a disturbing mind-set that seems evident in these arguments and it seems to go like this; “I do not like what you like and therefore you must not like it either. If you do continue to like it and/or defend people’s right to enjoy what they want then we will shame and ostracize you and demand that everyone else do the same.”

    That just can’t be healthy.

  50. Nettacki
    Nettacki
    April 8, 2015 at 2:53 pm

    The reason why they don’t is because the devs don’t even make a real effort to really appeal to them. Which leads to less interested feminists buying games, which then leads to less sales, which leads to less money being made.There’s at least one study out there that points out how games with female protagonists tend to have a fraction of the marketing budget that games with male protagonists have. It’s a vicious cycle that can only really be broken if the devs do something about it.

  51. Nettacki
    Nettacki
    April 8, 2015 at 3:03 pm

    I’ll admit that I sympathize with you about being forcefully associated with idiots that do not in any way represent you. Heck, I’m sure many feminists feel the same way about the asshole extremists that ruin any movement. But those idiots didn’t just pop out of nowhere to cause havoc independent of what’s being done within the movement. Many of them took advantage of a certain atmosphere that was already there, in this case being an already existing stigma against almost any woman/feminist that dares to criticize their medium, thus leading to these doxxings and shitstorms happening.

  52. Nettacki
    Nettacki
    April 8, 2015 at 3:05 pm

    The reason why it seems like “no character” would be good enough for them is because most of the time, AAA devs suck at making them better than they could be. It’s not that their standards are too high, but rather the devs aren’t trying hard enough to get it there.

    Of course, exceptions exist. And there are times when certain SJWs do seem more than a little overzealous about their criticisms. That doesn’t mean the right thing to do is not try at all. That just means they need to learn from their mistakes in order to try again next time.

  53. Nettacki
    Nettacki
    April 8, 2015 at 3:16 pm

    I’m well aware that they’re fictional characters, thank you very much. That’s my point: since they’re fictional characters, they’re often used as a plot device by the writers to inject cheap drama or some other piece of bad writing into a game that probably could have been done in a better way.

    Men like women, and they can appreciate many aspects of them. I agree. But the thing is, the way they draw women is often limited to a set mold, which gets tiring after a while, which causes people to rise up and speak out against these practices in the first place. If they really like women and can appreciate them more than just beyond what makes them attractive or hot, then they would actually work hard to make them better characters that break the mold without trying to have their cake and eat it too.

    I know that some games are only really meant to appeal to specific audiences. I also know that not every game has to cater to my tastes. I never said I wanted it to be that way, did I? I want variety in the portrayals of characters that doesn’t rely on the same tired cliches that are used too often. And stuff like women characters only really being assessed in terms of their value for other men characters, among others, happens too often.

  54. ghostlife
    ghostlife
    April 8, 2015 at 3:16 pm

    Incorrect. It’s well-documented that even if you change your product to appease these people, they will not buy it. There is no point in making your target audience a group that cares more about complaining than about the product itself.

  55. Nettacki
    Nettacki
    April 8, 2015 at 3:21 pm

    Citation needed.

  56. ThePringus
    ThePringus
    April 8, 2015 at 3:59 pm

    Explain the cake thing I’m astupid

  57. Nonscpo
    Nonscpo
    April 8, 2015 at 4:14 pm

    Woops! I clicked on it by accident, canceled and replaced it with the pic I wanted, and somehow it still went thru. Thanks Disqus!

  58. Anonymous
    Anonymous
    April 8, 2015 at 4:29 pm

    We need a study to determine the accuracy of studies.

  59. ghostlife
    ghostlife
    April 8, 2015 at 4:29 pm

    No, you miss the point. Go spew your concern-troll indoctrination elsewhere, we ain’t buying the shit you sell

  60. Zizal
    Zizal
    April 8, 2015 at 5:46 pm

    You will never see someone here says they don’t want good written characters to exist. Originality isn’t easy or wouldn’t make money and that’s why you don’t see companies take a lot of risks. You people or maybe not you but there is a lot of people who claim fighting for inclusivity but you will dismiss people who don’t agree with you. For example there are around 1 million person who bought dragon’s crown a game the journos fought against and attacked the developer for making a game that you don’t agree with. You people aren’t inclusive you want every thing to be made the way you want to or you will dismiss the people who worked on the game and the people who played it women or men as hateful , bigots or any other impotent label. You don’t want to co exist you want to censor or bully developers to stop making games you don’t like. Just like the article that says “just because you can make it you shouldn’t’. There are some games that are focused on gameplay and the story isn’t that important like mario where all the characters have no personality but you like to take peach for example and play a victim. I don’t play western games because most of the characters are 30+ or 40+ old and ugly and their designs aren’t that sexy , which is another problem in the western media where they cater to old people only and forget teens and young people exist and that’s why a lot of teens and young people will like japanese media.When someone will make a sexy teen character you will start hating because you only see through the eyes of 40 years old. It’s funny how a young person forced to watch porn of and old women because there is no alternative or very hard to find. The games that sell using fanservice aren’t that much as a lot of you like to act. There isn’t a lot of games like senran kagura but when someone make them everyone start going ape shit because you don’t want games you don’t like to exist.

  61. Nettacki
    Nettacki
    April 8, 2015 at 7:15 pm

    Yeah, I’m aware of that. But there’s also more male characters in general than female characters, which in turn means that regardless of proportions, there’s a wider variety of good, well-written male characters than female characters.

  62. Nettacki
    Nettacki
    April 8, 2015 at 7:16 pm

    You talk about indoctrination, yet you and so many other users in this site have gotten indoctrinated with antifeminist crap, while the study cited here has some flawed methods of its own to reach its conclusion. You’re no better than them in that regard.

  63. Dave
    Dave
    April 8, 2015 at 9:00 pm

    And yet, when they make an absolutely wonderful lead female, like in the tomb raider reboot, they STILL get bashed over minuscule perceived slights – don’t you remember the shitstorm over the “rape” scene in the promo video? When developers can’t be given freedom to craft interesting characters without getting crucified by a vocal and obnoxious minority, then the only real option is to fall back to the default (male) characters.

    Regarding the article – is this getting any traction on the major sjw outlets?

  64. Nettacki
    Nettacki
    April 8, 2015 at 9:28 pm

    The shitstorm was aimed more at the executive producer trying to promote a rape scene to make Lara more vulnerable and get the player to “care” for her than for the scene itself. Once the scene got out in full, very few people were left complaining about it.

    And even so, as good as the reboot Lara was, there were still some legit criticisms to be made about her character. Just because you liked her doesn’t mean she, or anyone else for that matter, is above criticism. It starts with issues about the disconnect between the narrative and what’s actually going on in gameplay, and branches out from there.

  65. dsadsada
    dsadsada
    April 8, 2015 at 9:31 pm

    This is the problem with attempting variance: http://imgur.com/gallery/gzTILP2

    Any attempt will be scrutinized greatly for the mere fact that it’s a woman or minority character. Male characters don’t have to put up with that and the big development studios would rather deal with the complaints of not having done something over having apparently done something wrong for making a humanly flawed character or for damaging a character for the sake of the plot. The first one goes away quickly. The second one becomes a mark on them.

    When the more vocal people screaming for diversity accept flawed or tormented characters instead of expecting strong characters for the sake of representation and stop crying over the former, there will be more variance because it becomes OK for studios to take the risk.

    As for why all the boobs, it’s because the market is so saturated with it already that complaints regarding them are just as easily weathered. That and because sex sells. There’s nothing simpler than that.

  66. Dave
    Dave
    April 8, 2015 at 9:35 pm

    Actual, creative criticism is different from the default – calls for boycotts, bans, censoring, and firing. No rational developer opposes creative critique of their work, but very few developers will want to touch subject matter that will most likely elicit irrationally violent protest against them. That is why, while they can take a risk creating a female lead and end up with that polygon bayonetta review, they could instead stick with male leads (which are invisible at worst, and amazing at best)

  67. Section8
    Section8
    April 8, 2015 at 10:02 pm

    If you need a study to let you know whether video games can or cannot make you sexist, then you shouldn’t be playing games. Or watching tv. Or movies. Or listening to music.

  68. Nettacki
    Nettacki
    April 8, 2015 at 10:05 pm

    As far as I can tell, most of the criticism about female characters thrown the devs’ way doesn’t fall under boycotts etc. What makes you think “most” people do that instead of actually criticizing the characters and getting heckled for it and being falsely accused of doing boycotts?

  69. Dave
    Dave
    April 8, 2015 at 10:37 pm

    Im not saying that most people do that – I’m saying that female characters are more often than not attacked by the SJW minority. When you can make a male lead and it has either no impact or positive impact, or a female lead that has extremely negative or positive impact, only an idiot would do the latter.

  70. AuroraMoon
    AuroraMoon
    April 9, 2015 at 12:20 am

    As a woman, I don’t care that female characters have big breasts or had revealing skin. However I do care about the fact that there seems to be no variety…. big-breasted half naked women are numerous, especially in RPGS (which is my favortive gerne of gaming).
    Imagine if you were in my shoes. You play as male characters most of the time, but muscular men in speedos seem to be EVERYWHERE in all of the games you play due to you liking only a certain genre. This genre pretty much is set in a fantasy world, so it calls for a certain aesthetic. You like everything else about that gerne of gaming, but there’s still this niggling feeling in the back of your mind when something stands out to you that just bothers you. There’s almost never any men in sensible armor, they just wear nothing but speedos or loincloths… why is this? You used to accept that this was just the way things were, because a fantasy gerne pretty much calls for every man to be half-naked and wearing nothing but loincloths.
    But lately, you just ask for something more than that… how about new armors and the like for your half-naked men? I mean, it might be a fantasy RPG genre but that doesn’t mean that ALL of your male characters have to look like Conan the barbarian, do they?

    this is basically how I feel about women in bikini armor right now. I accept that this kind of look is part of the Fantasy/RPG gerne…. but I do wish there was more types of clothing and looks than just the Bikini armor. I don’t call for the bikini armor to be outlawed as seeing it’s part of the classic genre, I just want more stuff added.
    Of course, this was what I loved so much about Skyrim. It was one of the few rpg games that actually gave women the choice to wear sensible armor alongside the more skimpy stuff.

  71. Holyfox25
    Holyfox25
    April 9, 2015 at 12:29 am

    I can get behind this criticism and see it as reasonable. I just wish more people can say this instead of the whole “Women in bikinis are sexist, and men who play them are sexist, muh stereotypes, rabble rabble, etc.”

    More options are good I say. I think Blizzard has the right idea with transmog; it is the best of both worlds. Cover your character up or show more skin or a mix of both? Player’s choice.

  72. AuroraMoon
    AuroraMoon
    April 9, 2015 at 12:46 am

    On the study itself…. I don’t believe that video games can make people sexist any more than they can make people violent. Instead, I think people who were more inclined to violent tendencies or had the mindset of wanting to rape somebody…would had done it anyway.
    But, They do tend to gravitate to certain things like rape porn on the internet when they’re just starting out and is too timid to do the real thing right away. They fantasize about it, but haven’t had the “courage” to carry out their sick plans yet. So they instead seek out things that would help them visualize their fantasies easier, etc.
    Rape porn on the Internet does not cause people to become rapists, but If somebody collected shitloads of rape porn then that’s probably a sign that they constantly fantasize about becoming a violent rapist for real. It’s like a symptom of a larger problem.

    So, if you saw somebody collecting certain types of games while ignoring other genres completely, especially collecting games like Rapelay (a very notorious game about violent rape, where the goal is to rape a whole family full of female members), Then you might want to check him out just to make sure that he isn’t some dangerous pervert. Just to make sure.
    If it turns out that he’s actually just a innocent guy with some unusual tastes in games, then the best thing is to apologize to him and move on.

    For the record, I played Rapelay out of morbid curiosity and it was the most sick game I ever played. There wasn’t even any non-con (a type of gerne where the girl says no at first but ends up enjoying it later on) in the game. It was just flat-out rape with the women screaming and crying while you do it. You can even make them bleed if you wanted to do that.
    So, I think that anybody who plays it out of morbid curiousity isn’t bad… but I would definitely give them a serious side-eye if they started gushing about how they were a huge fan of that game. If you know what I mean.

  73. AuroraMoon
    AuroraMoon
    April 9, 2015 at 12:51 am

    Exactly, it should be up to the player to cover up or wear almost nothing if they want to or not. :) The lack of choices is what bothers me, not the lack of modest clothing.

  74. Fenrir007
    Fenrir007
    April 9, 2015 at 1:14 am

    Don’t you hate how disqus doesnt let us delete pictures? What if this was a… spicier picture you accidentally uploaded? They really need to fix this.

  75. Fenrir007
    Fenrir007
    April 9, 2015 at 1:16 am

    More options are definitely not bad, but what many are banning of pre-existent things to achieve that end. To that, I take offense (and I know its not your case, as you said).

    This is one of the things that really gets me when they say we are against diversity. Tokenism is bad, changing pre-existent and established things just to reach a nonsensical quota is bad… but making more of what there is less? I don’t see the problem here.

    The world needs more Freyas and less Thoritas.

  76. AuroraMoon
    AuroraMoon
    April 9, 2015 at 2:11 am

    I know what you mean by that. I honestly think that instead of bitching about things that are out already or bitching about older but popular games, that they should work towards future games having more diversity and the like. Instead of trying to ban stuff that is already out. if you know what I mean?
    example, many companies seem guilty of creating male protagonists who all had the same face or generic build…which people started to point out back in 2005, and is still pointing out today:
    http://www.destructoid.com/brown-hair-and-stubble-the-new-face-of-modern-videogames-178442.phtml
    http://www.ign.com/articles/2011/06/22/the-devolution-of-character-designs
    http://www.buzzfeed.com/josephbernstein/what-is-the-deal-with-the-video-game-dude-face#.wmk7AxrnbJ

    those links shows examples of men who all look the same if you basically take away their clothes and accessories.
    This is why I happen to think the “women in bikini armor” isn’t one born out of sexism, but rather out of laziness. The same laziness that leads game creators to use the same mold for all of their male protagonists.

    The game creators don’t want to waste energy on super-cool character designs, they just want a game that makes money for them. I see this problem all the time in games that has DLC, pay to play, etc… the game is basically total generic crap because all the devs care about is money.
    Maybe we get lucky and get game creators who actually care about making a good game… but then, we still get the concept artists who designs video game characters…. and it turns out that the concept artist is a total hack who keeps on reusing the same designs over and over.

  77. Fenrir007
    Fenrir007
    April 9, 2015 at 3:31 am

    This is true. Maybe they could start diverting some money from their over-inflated marketing budgets towards making their art assets better and more diversified.

    But sadly, I don’t think there is much incentive to change if the current model brings money…

  78. Touma
    Touma
    April 9, 2015 at 5:26 am

    damsel in distress is a classic story. which is why its so prevalent. before you go around calling it sexist look at women. they enjoy it. how many women like the idea of “knight in shining armor”? the majority without a doubt

    “one-dimensional characters (if you can call them that) that only really exist for a male figure and no one else (not even themselves)”

    now this just strikes me as someone whos just looking for something to be offended by. one could argue the other way. mario only exists to save the stuck up pampered princess toadstool. what better way for a man to live his life then to be under the heel of a woman? when he could be fixing peoples plumbing instead of saving a well off princess.

    see how far-fetched and stupid that is? why is it not far-fetched and stupid the other way around? this is the reason there’s no “strong independent women” (god i’m sick of that string of words) in the industry. you won’t be pleased so why give a fuck? why subject oneself to the lynch mob by putting in the extra effort?

    funny that a few years ago there was that whole deal about the male characters being copy-paste’s. now when it suits people “look at all these great male characters who totally aren’t copy-pastes!” creativity is the problem. always has and always will be. and now we have people scrutinizing everything all the way down to how small or big her tits and ass are. certainly isn’t helping.

  79. Zombie_Barioth
    Zombie_Barioth
    April 9, 2015 at 7:54 am

    You could say the same thing about the first study you posted. There are at least two versions of it (that I’ve seen), one of which they admit the effects likely wear off. One could easily chalk up the results as participants still being worked up.

    These studies can make for useful tools though, they envoce disussion and critical though, and at worst prove neither side is 100% correct.

  80. Vampok
    Vampok
    April 9, 2015 at 10:50 am

    I agree with this completely.

    Nobody would go and yell at the guys making the next Halo/CoD/AssCreed/Far Cry/etc… and tell them we already have too many FPSs/Action games, and that they have to make a 3D platformer or Tactical RPG (or whatever underrepresented genre) instead. Rather, most people just do things like back Kickstarters, support Indie devs or make one themselves.

    The people who want more minorities/females/LGBT/etc.. should do the same; support what they want to see, rather than trying to harass and shame devs into altering or censoring their existing works.

    Like how Sarkeesian got almost 160K to make a video series complaining about the stuff she doesn’t like; I’ve backed several Kickstarters that ended up receiving anywhere in the 1K to 40K range, those funds for her video series could have instead gone towards creating maybe a dozen good games that she agreed with.

  81. ronin4life
    ronin4life
    April 9, 2015 at 12:57 pm

    Wait. You mean That isn’t a rule 63 version of Jotaro?
    O.o

  82. Fenrir007
    Fenrir007
    April 9, 2015 at 6:59 pm

    It’s funny, because if this group of perpetually offended people were campaigning for better written characters as a whole, I believe hardly anyone would disagree with them. Better writing is definitely something gaming could benefit from – but imposing a checklist on creators is definitely not the way, and is a gross reductionism of all the factors at play here (like how companies are unlikely to reserve a significative portion of their budget to their writers, opting, instead, to blow it all out on marketing or eye candy, which can be proeminently features on screenshots, videos etc).

    There’s a difference between more minorities in gaming (which I’m okay with) and hamfisting them where they do not belong (like making female Space Marines [as in Astartes]).

  83. Zizal
    Zizal
    April 9, 2015 at 7:18 pm

    I disagree with you. I can tell the difference between video games and reality and that’s why I can kill,torture,rape and kill animals without feeling guilty. Keep in mind these games target mature people and even if a teen got exposed to them it won’t affect him because he can tell the difference between fantasy and reality. I find killing much worse than raping but maybe because you are a women you are more sensitive to this subject.I know men can be raped to no need for someone to remind me. I learned from the internet that some people have weird fetiches like liking watching animal porn or dirty porn but I won’t judge them and think they do these things and I wont call someone rapist for liking a video game.

  84. AuroraMoon
    AuroraMoon
    April 9, 2015 at 11:23 pm

    that was mainly my point in my entire post. I just said that the majority of people don’t act out because of video games! However if a person have a unhealthy fixation with certain things then that’s a SYMPTOM of a larger problem, and one that people should pay attention. The video game did NOT CAUSE IT. okay? The person already had huge problems long before the video game came along.

    Instance: most normal people would just play the new tomb raider game to the very end and not really pay attention to the attempted rape scene since there was nothing sexual there.
    But, there’s this one werido who never finished tomb raider because he always stops at the attempted rape scene to wank or something because the idea of rape against a strong female like Lara turns him on so much. Then it turns out that he collects an unhealthy amount of torture and rape porn… like 10k of those files on his computer and they’re the main reason why his computer is so low on space. He has a mental illness that makes him fixated on that sort of thing.
    The porn and the video game did NOT cause his mental illness… they were just simple indicators that showed that maybe you should pay attention to this one dude and make sure that he has no intention of acting out on his fantasy.

    It’s like, if you caught somebody who had 10k of child porn files on his computer you wouldn’t say: “Well that doesn’t make him a pedophile! Sure, amassing that large amount of files makes him weirdly obsessed with naked children but he’s not dangerous!”
    It’s not the same as say, some dude only having a few jailbait pictures on his file that may or may not be an legal adult pretending to be a teenager.
    viewing some illegal pictures doesn’t make you a criminal, especially if you just accidentally came across them on a website on the Internet. But going out of your way to collect them, etc definitely indicates that you’re WAY INTO IT than a normal person would be, and is definitely somebody to be watched. you know?

    Owning games like Manhunt doesn’t make people psycho. Mentally Ill people on the other hand become attracted to games like that like flies and honey… and we have to find a way to divorce the two so that people don’t see video games as the cause, but rather simply just a tiny part of a larger problem. See what I’m saying?

  85. AuroraMoon
    AuroraMoon
    April 10, 2015 at 7:25 am

    You should read my post more carefully. I explicitly stated that video games were not the cause of mental illness or criminal behavior.
    I simply pointed out that over-indulging of anything is unhealthy in itself… and that was what people needed to fix, not video games themselves.
    For instance, If people drink too much on a regular basis then that’s alcoholism, and they need help.
    If people overdo it on painkillers, etc then they are addicted to over the counter drugs and need help.
    If a guy has 30k of rape porn on his PC then that means that he is completely fixated on the rape fantasy…. thus he needs help, espeically if he shows signs that he may carry those fantasies over into real life.
    Likewise with certain videogames. If the dude isn’t playing it normally the way other people would, then he might need help. Video games didn’t cause his behavior, but this guy showed symptoms of mental problems that needs to be looked into.
    This does not mean that ALL gamers who ever played the same game the crazy violent guy did, are the same as him. See what I mean?

  86. Zizal
    Zizal
    April 10, 2015 at 8:46 am

    Being obsessed with something just means that you like it and doesn’t mean you are starting killing people. If someone had mental illness doesn’t mean everyone obsessed with this stuff should be labeled as potential criminal. Unless someone does something bad he shouldn’t punished,watched,seduced. Some people can’t handle gory movies and some people can and love to collect gory movies and that doesn’t make them psycho. You shouldn’t use your self as a base when you want to define what is acceptable for a normal human to do. Because humans aren’t the same and labeling anyone obsessed with stuff you can’t personally handle as potential criminal is wrong.

  87. Nettacki
    Nettacki
    April 11, 2015 at 10:08 pm

    Indeed there are some women that like that kind story, but there are many others that grew to despise it. Just because it’s “classic” doesn’t mean it’s always worth doing.

  88. Nettacki
    Nettacki
    April 11, 2015 at 10:30 pm

    You can make a male lead and still have some reactions, good and bad, to it. Especially when the race and/or sexual orientation of said lead comes into play.

    By “impact,” do you mean impact on sales or impact on critical acclaim? Because the inclusion of yet another straight white male lead has often led to cries of unoriginality and cliche in the worst of times, like on Watch_Dogs. And there are quite a few games with female leads on them that manage to become big financial successes, like the new Tomb Raider.

    No doubt some of these SJWs go a bit too far with attacking certain characters, but in my experience, many of them have good intentions underneath their anger. We need to keep Hanlon’s Razor in mind here when we deal with these people.

  89. Nettacki
    Nettacki
    April 11, 2015 at 10:50 pm

    People actually *do* accept flawed and tormented characters. The problem with female characters is not the mere presence of them being flawed and tormented. It’s the way they are portrayed in comparison to their male counterparts, along with the ways said portrayals are executed, that’s the problem.

    For example, people are okay with the idea of having a woman around who’s an angry, drunk lecher. People are less okay with her being the only major female character in the story, or with most/all the other women in the story being the same as her.

    Similarly, people are okay with a woman taking a beating from a man and women getting tormented in general as befits the story. People are less okay with said woman’s torment being played for some degree of creepy sexualisation that’s generally not there when it comes to male characters in the same situation.

    The solution to this problem isn’t to stop making female characters altogether, but to make new ones that break out of the box that writers often shove female characters into, intentionally or unintentionally. Something like (for an anime example) Attack on Titan and the way they treat female troops getting killed, versus Sword Art Online and the way it treats Asuna (the main female lead) and her torment at the hands of the main villain of the second arc.

  90. Brotaku
    Brotaku
    April 12, 2015 at 3:26 pm

    This isn’t complicated. It’s simple. No character will ever be portrayed perfectly the way everybody wants. Find games you like to play and play them. Done.

  91. TsukuyomiMagi99
    TsukuyomiMagi99
    April 12, 2015 at 6:51 pm

    I never understood why games made to appeal to male sexuality is a bad thing. Like its an inherent sin for a regular joe to enjoy T & A without the oversight of an SJW breathing down their neck. Most gamers are grown adults and can distinguish reality from fantasy. Hell this study wasn’t even needed to prove that games don’t make people sexist (just like games don’t make people into sociopathic killers).

    While its for a different piece of media our Based Mom utterly destroys the argument about the male gaze that could be applied to video games too.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3i-Uv14AQZc&index=6&list=PLytTJqkSQqtr7BqC1Jf4nv3g2yDfu7Xmd

    And while we’re at it, do we need to take away media that appeals to female sexuality also? Like Romance Novels, Otome Games, the Yaoi genre in general, Shoutacon, etc. I mean how long ago were movies like Twilight & Fifty Shades a thing? And who were the ones who made those franchises into blockbuster hits? This BS that SJW’s are pulling is just utter hypocrisy at its finest. Even if one person out there does something stupid because of a piece of media, its NOT an excuse to ruin it for everyone else.

  92. Mike Nieto
    Mike Nieto
    April 20, 2015 at 12:07 pm

    Why is it always Senran Kagura the game brought to these discussions¿ lol

  93. TsukuyomiMagi99
    TsukuyomiMagi99
    September 5, 2015 at 11:38 am

    Why look only in AAA spaces when the breadth of gaming is far and wide? Looking only towards AAA titles and nothing else is narrow minded. It’s hypocritical really especially when SJW’s claim that feminism is vast and wide and is ignorant to cherry pick yet this is the excuse SJW apologists like yourself make. They would find better representations of what they like if they explored beyond AAA titles.

    Also this isn’t about more variety, this is about controlling and policing male sexuality. If people are so turned off by what we like why not create what you like and market it to the rest of the world? Also I don’t see why an entertainment industry catering to its primary demographic is sexist. That’s the equivalent of telling me that the romance novel industry is sexist towards men due to the poor representations of men within it.