Catherine: Full Body Announced for PlayStation 4 and PS Vita

Atlus has announced (also via Ryokutya2089 and HachimaCatherine: Full Body for PlayStation 4 and PS Vita.

The new game is developed by their new team, Studio Zero, and is being led by Persona 5 director Katsura Hashino. The game is a remake of the original PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 title, only now it comes with a large number of new episodes, endings, anime cutscenes, and even more sexy moments.

There’s now a third “Catherine,” a girl named Rin (pictured). She’s likened to a healing sort of character that helps the nightmare-beguiled Vincent and shows him proper values and wholesomeness. She might come off as lacking in terms of social skills but overall she’s a very forward and soft character.

Fans can also expect a wider range of difficulty levels, online battles, cross-save support, a new mechanic where you can move multiple-connected blocks, as well as an entirely new mode. The subtitle “Full Body” comes from the wine term, nodding to the game being a richer and somehow more erotic version of Catherine.

Brandon Orselli

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Big Papa Overlord at Niche Gamer. Italian. Dad. Outlaw fighting for a better game industry. I also write about music, food, & beer. Also an IT guy.

  • ProxyDoug

    Looks like there is enough content to be a sequel rather than a remake. Maybe they thought a sequel wouldn’t make sense and a spiritual successor wouldn’t have the same appeal.
    Still, I hate these re-releases that make the original look like a botched down version. It’s why I still haven’t finished Persona 4 as I don’t have a Vita.

  • PaRaLLaXTHeTiCS

    Meh. Was hoping for something more exciting. Good those who haven’t played it, I guess.

  • catazxy

    Not a big fan of the gameplay but the anime and 3d cutscenes were well made.

  • artemisthemp

    Could be a way to make a sequel possible

  • Mr0303

    The new girl should’ve been called Quatherine for maximum confusion.

  • Perhaps we’ll get dual audio? In any case, I am goddamn excited for this one.

  • Jack

    How the hell is there a Vita version but not a PC one?

  • Jack

    Why the hell is there a Vita version and not a PC one?

  • BFG

    Because Catherine is a japanese game firstmost and jap folks arent into PC (unless it’s about doujin/eroge stuff). And the Vita is still selling well in the country

  • goodbyejojo

    vita gets resurrected for one last hurrah, holy shit.

  • Matz

    Being a Puzzle Game it makes sense that they’re considering a portable version, also it’s Atlus and they hate PC

  • Fear Me I Am Free

    Day 1 buy for me.

  • Nagato

    I get the lack of a PC version considering that this is Atlus we’re talking about, or even an Xbox one despite the original being available on there through backwards compatability.

    What does strike me as particularly bizarre, however, is the presense of a Vita version over a Switch one, when the latter platform has a mainline SMT coming to it. Any other company would be using whatever ports, remakes and spinoffs to prop up an audience for the incoming bigger title instead.

    Sometimes I really get the impression that Atlus hates making money, but as time passes the possibility of Sony paying them for exclusivity deals starts to appear more likely.

  • wombat

    Switch tho?

  • sanic

    Sold

  • Matz

    At this point I believe that Atlus has some sort of weird rules based around Persona and SMT

    SMT -> Nintendo
    Persona -> Sony

    And Persona Q don’t count because it’s practically Ethrian Odyssey with a Persona skin

  • ProfessorFluffy

    Sadly this seems like the norm for Atlus now. It’s hard to think of a game they’ve released that didn’t get an a re-release with extra content years later.

  • DrearierSpider

    Atlus is a worldwide studio, and their games have a worldwide appeal (as seen with P5). Fact is they’d sell a helluva lot more copies on PC than Vita.

  • BFG

    What part of “japanese games made by japanese devs for the japanese audience firstmost”, didnt you understand?

  • Shattno

    Cool, it’s a great game. Hoping for dual audio. I will definitely pick it up.

  • LibidinBoy

    The dead console keeps getting games
    Its almost as if its not a bad console indeed.

  • The Clansman

    It´s weird that it isn’t on Switch. The lack of a PC announcement can be explained because the game hasn’t been announced for the west.

  • darkgamer001

    Hey guys, guess who’s getting triggered ;)
    https://twitter.com/LaurakBuzz/status/943132532773654528

  • Nin

    The first games of the two franchises started on those systems, so it’s not completely unwarranted that SMT mainline gravitates towards Nintendo and Persona goes to Sony, but it’s still weird.

  • Nin

    Inb4 Rin is worse than Marie from Persona 4 Golden.

  • Nin

    I kind of doubt they’ll bother releasing the Vita version for the West, but I hope so.

  • 2501

    Catherine on the Switch sounds dope.

  • Tubsiwub

    Aw… a remake?

    At least it’s on Vita for some reason, which I love. Buying it.

  • DrearierSpider

    The goal of ANY company is to sell the most amount of copies, period. If Atlus were a small publisher that couldn’t afford to localize or develop for all 3 systems at once, I could see where your coming from. But you’re arguing for developing for a platform that’s moderately successful in 1 market vs another that is a huge success in all but one market. PC is also huge in China and Korea, FYI.

  • BFG

    Japanese games (and jap media in general) are appealing because they’re made for the nippon people firstmost. You wouldnt want it another way.

    It’s like you have a problem to process basic information.

  • Mr0303

    Trangenderism is a mental illness.

  • DrearierSpider

    As I already said, Atlus has the funds to develop for PC IN ADDITION to the PS4 & PSVita. You aren’t one to talk about reading comprehension.

    Are Nioh, NieR, Dark Souls, etc. any less Japanese because they’re on a traditionally non Japanese platform?

  • Uncle Ocelot

    An Atlus rerelease? And it adds a new female character? That’s becoming a trend. Considering that the game revolves around Vincent’s relationship with the two Catherines, adding a third will probably change things substantially, which could be good or bad. I just hope she isn’t a Mary (or Marie) Sue.

    And yeah, why Vita over Switch?

  • CrusaderEsper

    Fictional characters don’t have feelings. You can murder them, abuse them, torture them, do anything to them, and no one gets hurt because they aren’t real. I hate to break it to him, but we’re talking about a supernatural phenomenon that effects males that aren’t acting “properly”. I forget the exact reason, but Erica definitely foots the bill as no matter how many hormones he takes or how he mutilate his genitals, he is still biologically male.

  • alterku

    Agreed here. I own and enjoyed my time with it on the 360, but not really interested in playing it over again for a new girl.

  • MusouTensei

    Bah.

  • BFG

    Again with your comprehension issues.

    Let’s talk in simpler words for you: Nioh, Nier, Dark Souls were made on consoles first because they were japanese games for the japanese audience in the first place. The PC platform has no such popularity in Japan like it’s in the case in the West. The PC ports came afterwards after the localization in the West of those consoles games, and because of a demand from the West audience. Different cultures meet different needs.

    I repeat again, do you understand how stupid you (guys) sound by complaining there is no PC port right now, because the japs give zero crap about this system platform and a localization has yet to be announced ? (game is only 50% completed)

    And I repeat again, just in case, that I have nothing against a PC port for you people, but that I find funny you cannot process the idea how the japanese folks work differently from you

  • Professor_Icepick

    I mean, it’s an Atlus game, so I think a PC version is impossible anyway. Atlus USA is nothing more than a worthless paper tiger that puts out various indie games on Steam and nothing more.

    I remember when Sega first bought out Atlus and people were worried they were going to ruin them. No such luck: those Japanese dinosaurs are still as stubborn and moronic as ever.

  • Warrior90

    The god whatshisface forces all men have nightmares that either don’t want to, or go out of their way to not reproduce. Erica definitely fits the latter.

  • s_fnx

    You’re still asking yourself that at this point? It’s quite obvious that Atlus hates and despises the PC platform.

  • BFG

    Atlus USA/Europe =/= Atlus Japan

    It’s like complaining about Nippon Ichi Software for NISA’s screwups

  • s_fnx

    Atlus USA can’t do shit without the approval of Atlus Japan. They just follow orders so I’m not sure what you’re referring to. Are you implying that Atlus USA has the power to release games like Persona for PC?

  • The Clansman

    “japanese people don’t play on PC!!” God, do we still have to listen to this argument?

  • Matz

    I’ve seen a lot of SJWs demanding to rework Erica, funny thing is that s/he is probably the best example of how to make a transgender character, you know, make him/her act like a real person, give it a great personality and make it a great character making some subtle mentions about the sex change instead of mentioning s/he is transgender every 30 seconds

  • BFG

    It’s still a niche platform, for full-fledged video games, compared to its popularity in the West.

    Doesnt help that consoles and games are dirt cheap at the pawn shops over there too.

  • Matz

    Atlus is also the only company that still makes games for the 3DS, they love to keep handhelds on life support

  • RPG

    I am actually excited for this. I tried Catherine at a friend’s place for a bit, but never owned it, and played through it myself. I had been wanting to pick it up for a long while, but now I will wait for this!

  • Jettythesunfish

    I agree. Erica was a great trans character. If people honestly have an issue with her that it prevents them from enjoying the game, they can eff right off.

  • [Your Unoriginal Name Here]™

    “A new Catherine named Rin”- 1) CatheRINe, clever of you Atlus, I see you ;D and 2) Why do I get this feeling that they’ll pull a Persona 4 Golden where they added Marie and she had something to do with the final antagonist of the game/anime but in this case, Rin has something to do with Catherine, almost like they’re separate entities?

    Still, I never played Catherine so I’m definitely buying this for the Vita WHICH THANK CHINCHIN! That there are developers like Atlus who support the dang thing.

  • buddyluv324

    I hope by now Laura realizes that she’s only helping to hype the game up, but not for the reason she’s aiming for ^_^ If anything comes out of this “outrage” I would thank her for helping to bring Cathrine to light for more people to play. It worked for Dragon’s Crown and Xenoblade Chronicles 2.

  • Amethyst Eclipse

    Oh this game has characters like that in it? Is it really as Tumblr as I think it is? I mean the premise is about some man being tortured for sinning against a woman right?

  • Snorlaxation

    Don’t be a douche. Focus that animosity towards people like Dale who complained about a really great character. Erica was fantastic

  • Snorlaxation

    your argument sounds stupid, because characters can and often are still representations of humans, which we are.
    In any case, It made perfect sense for Erica to get roped in to the proceedings because the deity behind it was old world and the hands manipulating the plot were happy to get as many victims as possible.
    I get having issues with representation, because they are legitimate, but for someone like that lady to complain about a good representation (especially considering it came from japan of all places) is a good thing.

  • darkgamer001

    That’s the thing really. I’m not gonna say what you should or shouldn’t feel and all.
    If you feel offended that’s…ok I guess….as long as you just move on and focus on other things.
    The moment you start demanding things change to cater to you sensitivities is when a line is crossed and then I’m all for making fun of these people.

    I mean, ffs…you have the usual checklist of #sjwnonsense in those comments
    – call Japan backwards – check
    – call it trans/homo/etc. phobic? – check
    – call for the head of the director to roll – check
    -hurrdurr you have less than 10 followers, shut up – check
    – demand it to be changed – damn right it’s gonna be there, check

    Sadly, it’s no longer fun when it’s so damn predictable

  • CDan

    Can she please make his/her/its own games and leave Jap developers alone?

  • Mr0303

    I’m not being a douche. Gender dysphoria is a mental illness.

  • Snorlaxation

    it’s a bit more complicated than that. THe game doesn’t really paint men or women in a good light, but the men that get picked to be tortured are actually chosen because they were putting road blocks on the road to propagating the species basically.
    As for Erica
    Spoilers
    because she chooses to have sex with one of the guys of your group who’s crushing on her hardcore and wants to be with her forever, (but since as a transgender person who was formerly male, can’t get pregnant and produce offspring to further the species) she gets locked into the plot as well, though it’s so late in the game that she’s never really at risk. Any man who wastes time with committing to (at least) one woman and passing on his seed in this game is fair game to lose their lives in the block climbing dungeon.

  • Snorlaxation

    tell that to konami

  • darkgamer001

    I’d have to agree, whether you see it as a mental illness or not isn’t truly relevant here in my humble opinion.
    We have more of an issue with people pushing agendas and trying to force other devs to change their content to cater to them.

    Gather your own studio and create your own games and push your agendas there if you feel that strongly about them.

  • Snorlaxation

    it’s a winning argument, especially as more and more japanese youth are not interested in just staying home or in cafes to play video games. Portable games (much like portable phones) have dominated their country earlier and more solidly than any other, and it’s been that way for a while.

  • Snorlaxation

    yes, DYSPHORIA is. Not being transgender. If our Jurassic govt (assuming your american) is able to get that distinction, anyone should, unless they’re a fundamentalist.

  • Snorlaxation

    I don’t quite get what you’re saying. You’re agreeing to what exactly?

  • Mr0303

    Unless you have gender dysphoria you are not transgender. Ergo being transgender is a mental illness. Also your assumption is incorrect.

  • Snorlaxation

    to be fair, japan is very backwards in the orientation and gender equality pools.
    Actually being willing to pay women to have kids just because more of them are choosing to wait or focus on their careers? That’s pretty bizarre.

    As for homophobic and whatnot, yes, a majority of the older groups, the ones in power, are. They treat the younger generations who aren’t willing to hide their ‘abnormalities’ with disdain.

    However, that’s REAL LIFE. I understand that it affects video games (tv shows, games shows, movies, manga, anime, etc..) , but how about protesters focusing on the more important aspects first? It’s like that one gay couple that wanted to sue for not being able to get married in a church when marriage equality hadn’t even been won yet.

  • CrusaderEsper

    These people are NEVER happy. Erica was a character in a game. Everyone treated him like a human being, just like he was a normal person. Attention was never intentionally drawn to his circumstances and was only made relevant when appropriate to the story.
    But unless a trans person is waving a flag screaming from the rooftops that they are what they are and everyone worships them at their feet for being “so brave,” it isn’t enough. And even then another section of people will be mad because of that portrayal.

  • Snorlaxation

    if you can’t even call Erica a she, why would anyone trust people like you to do so for people in the real world?
    Yes, I have my own issues with people who choose to get up in arms over VIRTUAL CHARACTERS when trans people are getting burned or killed in real life but snowflake douche bags who can’t handle seeing them in person, but it’s hard not to lump people like you in with people like the woman complaining when you both have such whiny attitudes about this topic.

  • Snorlaxation

    feel free to look up the differences between the two, because like I said, there is a distinction, and those who’ve successfully transitioned can still join the military as long as they DON’T suffer from gender dysphoria.

  • Snorlaxation

    I loved Erica in this game. Yes, some of the jokes at the end at her expense were a little tasteless, but considering it was from japan it makes sense. In any case, the game was fun, her role in it made perfect sense, and she’s probably one of the best trans character reps in years.

  • Mr0303

    Why would you want to transition if you don’t have gender dysphoria? This is an even bigger lunacy and essentially means that transitioning is a cosmetic change to those people. Just to be clear – if they haven’t had the operation and the hormone treatment I don’t consider them transgender (ironically only people with gender dysphoria are allowed to have those). Putting on a dress and calling yourself a woman is nothing more than cosplay.

  • Snorlaxation

    because if you have gender dysphoria AFTER transitioning, that means you simply can’t accept the gender you have as the gender you want, which implies issues with your mind. does that make it clearer?

  • Mr0303

    Having gender dysphoria in the first place means you have a mental illness. Going with the surgery doesn’t turn you into the opposite gender. It just feeds your delusions. People who have transitioned have gender dysphoria and are thus mentally ill.

  • Ckarasu

    The APA is actually quite clear on this: Transgenders and people with Gender Dysphoria are not the same, necessarily. You can be a transgender and not have Dysphoria, and Dysphoria can be treated if you have it by transitioning(though it won’t always be “the cure”). So no, transgenders aren’t mentally ill, as per the APA themselves.

    Edit: “Not all transgender people suffer from gender dysphoria and that distinction is important to keep in mind” – On the APA’s Q&A about Dysphoria.

  • RichardGristle

    They don’t hate money, it’s just they’re retarded like every other Japanese game company. They’re pretty much as brilliant as Konami and Capcom at this point. They are owned by Sega, after all.

  • Ckarasu

    People don’t bother learning the difference between Dysphoria and Transgender despite there being easily accessible resources to do so. It’s idiotic.

  • RichardGristle

    It’s a remake and isn’t on Switch, PC, or even Xbone?

    Into the trash it goes.

  • darkgamer001

    woah there was just one comment when I wrote that O.o
    I was agreeing on your point that any animosity should be directed towards people like Dale and specifically those ridiculous complaints, rather than all this gender talk.

  • Mr0303

    I don’t care what the APA has to say (nice argument from authority btw). They are a progressive organisation with an agenda to push. As I stated above – if you transition without a gender dysphoria as an excuse you are an even bigger lunatic.

  • Ckarasu

    Hahahahahahahaha, no buddy. You can accuse the APA of that all you want, but the idea that transgenders are all mentally ill is retarded. If you’ve transitioned and are happy with that, then you can’t be ill. There’s no longer anything wrong with you. You are satisfied. If you transitioned without being in Dysphoria, then whatever. Their body, their choice and if they’re happy then whatever.

    See, a mental illness is only considered that when it’s negatively impacting your life. Thus, if a transgender transitions and they are comfortable, then they are healthy. Of course, it doesn’t always work out that way and transitioning isn’t always the answer.

  • I guess Atlus is still Sony fanboys. I find it funny that Switch is not getting it but the shitty Vita is. Atlus acts like they are owned by Sony.

  • Humbug.

  • Mr0303

    “You can accuse the APA of that all you want” – no, I can point out that they are in no way an authority about mental illness. Remember – psychology and psychiatry are not the same.

    ” If you’ve transitioned and are happy with that, then you can’t be ill. There’s no longer anything wrong with you.” – yes there is. You still falsely believe that you are the opposite gender. The surgery and the hormones don’t change who you are. Nothing can.

    “If you transitioned without being in Dysphoria, then whatever.” – then it’s lunacy as I stated above. A person can decide to blind himself on purpose – the “his body his choice” excuse doesn’t mean that they are not mentally ill.

    “See, a mental illness is only considered that when it’s negatively impacting your life.” – messing up your genitalia and pumping yourself up with hormones that were not part of your system is negatively impacting your body.

    “Of course, it doesn’t always work out that way and transitioning isn’t always the answer.” – transitioning is never the answer – therapy is.

  • Vita is dead in Japan kid.

  • He is a Vita bitch.

  • Snorlaxation

    thank you for clarifying.
    I understand part of her intent, and wanting a good representation of a trans person to not get shit on by the plot, but Erica is literally a solid example of a good trans character. Yes, she got some jerk comments thrown her way, but they were by her friends, and that’s often how friendship works, being dicks to one another on occasion whenever certain situations arise.

    While her and Toby got a little messy near the end when he was understandably feeling blindsighted, he wasn’t being overly ugly or anthing.
    Her role in the plot made perfect sense to me, since things like being transgender and whatnot aren’t necessarily new (depending on the continent/religion it’s a very old concept) but considering what this deity and the cohorts were aiming for, it made sense that Erica would get wrapped up in it, and this Dale lady needs to get over it.

  • Snorlaxation

    just because you feel you’re in the wrong body or want to transition doesn’t mean you’re suffering from gender dysphoria though. It’s kind of like being depressed because you have a bad, vs. being clinically depressed and needing actual meds to keep you ‘afloat’.

    For most that actually do transition fully, any issues they had with their gender fall by the wayside because they have the body they’ve felt they should’ve been born with. Gender dysphoria doesn’t stop there though.

  • Snorlaxation

    some people don’t care, some don’t believe it makes any sense. I’m not sure which is worse or harder to convince.

  • DariusQ

    Dammit, now I have to buy this. I would love a Switch version (because it’s portable) but somehow I doubt Nintendo would approve.

  • Ckarasu

    Transitioning is obviously the answer in some cases, because therapy isn’t a cure all and will never be. And perpetually being in therapy is an ass solution no sane man or woman will suggest. It doesn’t fix shit if you die while still in therapy.

    “Negatively impacting” your body, huh? Generally, yeah, but the body can adjust to what transitioning entails. And if it stops people from killing themselves out of depression then that’s more healthy to me.

    So, no. I’m gonna disagree. It’s something you should discuss heavily beforehand with doctors and whoever you’re seeking for help, but it is is a solution that can work. Because what do they care what you think?

    Also a note: American Psychiatric Association and American Psychological Association are both APA and both agree with what I posted. In case you thought I was just talking about one.

  • Mr0303

    “just because you feel you’re in the wrong body or want to transition doesn’t mean you’re suffering from gender dysphoria though.” – yes it does mean that. Below is the definition of the condition:

    gender dysphoria – unhappiness with one’s biological sex or its usual gender role, with the desire for the body and role of the opposite sex.

    I’m sorry, but if you are only sometimes feeling the the wrong body this doesn’t mean that you are transgender. You could be tired or have an itch that you are not used to and again – if somebody wants to transition without having gender dysphoria then he won’t be allowed and he’s a lunatic.

    “For most that actually do transition fully, any issues they had with
    their gender fall by the wayside because they have the body they’ve felt
    they should’ve been born with.” – citation needed on that one. Also they are still mentally ill for wanting the transition in the first place.

  • Mr0303

    “therapy isn’t a cure all and will never be” – yes, some cases are beyond saving. This in no way justifies enforcing a delusion. If somebody thinks they are a mouse permanently attaching a tail and big ears on them is not a cure for their mental illness.

    “Generally, yeah, but the body can adjust to what transitioning entails.” – so it does have a negative effect. Good to know.

    “And if it stops people from killing themselves out of depression then that’s more healthy to me.” – that’s a really big IF right there considering the disproportionate number of post-op trans people who attempt suicide.

    “it is is a solution that can work” – you are yet to prove how messing up your genitals and altering your body in a harmful way is a solution to the mental illness.

    “Because what do they care what you think?” – and you think that I care what mentally ill people think?

    “American Psychiatric Association and American Psychological Association
    are both APA and both agree with what I posted. In case you thought I
    was just talking about one.” – citation needed.

  • Ckarasu

    Clinical definition of being “unhappy” enough to be diagnosed is different from the casual definition. It’s gotta be to the point that one needs to seek help(from an unbiased perspective). Being “kinda” unhappy isn’t the same. And Transgenders can be that, where they’re unsatisfied with their body but not so much that it can lead to harm. Still makes them Transgender, but not Dysphoric. And, again, transitioning may not be the proper solution in both cases. Medication or therapy can work, but not always.

  • Ckarasu

    It totally justifies transitioning if it will save their life. Anyone with a brain knows that.

    Yeah, and that negative impact can go away. Good to know, huh?

    Contrary to what some idiots were feeding you, the information does show an increase in effectiveness in transitioning. Because the main study people cite for that information made it a point to say that the trend is actually kinda down as time went on and medicine and methods improved.

    I don’t have to prove much more than pointing out the people who are quite happy with their body post-op. Which you know exist. That’s all the justification I need.

    I think important people care what mentally ill think, because ignoring that is what helps lead to their deaths.

    https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria/expert-qa
    http://www.apa.org/topics/lgbt/transgender.aspx

    Eat crow.

  • Mr0303

    “And Transgenders can be that, where they’re unsatisfied with their body but not so much that it can lead to harm.” – if they didn’t have the operation they are not trans. If they did have the operation then obviously they were “unhappy” enough with their body to go through with it, so if they are trans they have gender dysphoria.

  • Ckarasu

    Gender and sex are different, boyo. One’s a social construct people are still debating about, and the other is physical.

  • Amethyst Eclipse

    Thanks this is the informative reply I was hoping for.

  • Snorlaxation

    if i supply proof of that statement would that be enough for you to no longer call transgender people mentally ill?

  • Snorlaxation

    Glad I could help

  • gwadahunter2222

    Switch and PC I understand

    but Xbone not so much I guess it’s because of the sales on 360 didn’t motivate Atlus to risk on a Microsoft platform

  • Mr0303

    “It totally justifies transitioning if it will save their life.” – “if”. There is no concrete proof for that.

    “Yeah, and that negative impact can go away. Good to know, huh?” – and what if it doesn’t? Also I don’t think that once you cut off your junk it can grow back, so you may want to check your sources on that statement.

    “Contrary to what some idiots were feeding you, the information does show
    an increase in effectiveness in transitioning. Because the main study
    people cite for that information made it a point to say that the trend
    is actually kinda down as time went on and medicine and methods
    improved.” – the trend being down, doesn’t change the fact that quite a few transgender people attempt suicide post op. The downward trend could be due to therapy and better acceptance of those individuals in society in general.

    “I don’t have to prove much more than pointing out the people who are quite happy with their body post-op.” – and masochists are happy when they inflict pain on themselves. By your logic them hiring people to beat them up is a solution to their mental illness.

    “I think important people care what mentally ill think, because ignoring that is what helps lead to their deaths.” – sure, but actually believing them makes you just as crazy as they are. Their opinions aren’t really an authority on anything due to their condition.

    “Transgender is a non-medical term that has been used increasingly since the 1990s” – BWAHAHAHAHA! Well there you go. So I was wrong that transgender people have gender dysphoria because transgender is a made up term with no medical value whatsoever. Well then, identifying as something that doesn’t exist is pretty much a mental behaviour in my book. LOL! This is even better than I thought. This means that transgenders are not actually trans since the correct term is transsexual. Thanks for letting me know.

  • Mr0303

    Got it. You are one of the lunatics that thinks that gender is a performance art and not the biological sex you are born with.

  • Mr0303

    No. I will not. Wanting to be something you are not is a sign mental illness in my book.

  • solutha

    Everyone arguing pointless shit should just head to 4chan

  • Ckarasu

    “If” is more than enough, buddy. Especially if that “if” can save a life.

    The whole point is that it can be adjusted to if the procedure was what you needed(which some people do need). If you transition when it’s not necessary for you, then you’re going to obviously regret. This is why I said that one should seriously think through things before doing it.

    Downward trend in the exact study idiots misread. And that was years ago. There isn’t enough recent data to really reach any concrete solution, but the fact that more are accepting transitions and living their lives is enough right now.

    Masochists range in severity, and one such treatment is actually for them to find a relationship with someone that can sate their desires. Obviously not the only solution, and not for every range of masochist.

    I mean, gender IS fluid. Sex isn’t. I can believe a transgender no issue. Doesn’t hurt either party.

    You WERE wrong, because they still acknowledged it as a proper term. But one doesn’t really diagnose it since it’s not an illness or the like, which is exactly what we’ve been telling you. Bwahahaha. You are right about transexuals not being a thing, because we can’t change sex at the moment(to be fair). We can change the body to match the gender, though. Sex is just too far involved at the moment to really alter.

  • Ckarasu

    So do dictionaries and other official sources. Yes, it is established that gender is a lot more fluid that sex. Kinda why they’re different terms. But it ain’t a performance art and the debate is obviously still going on.

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gender
    https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/gender

    Let’s not forget both APAs acknowledge this. Are you perhaps bad at reading?

  • STARSBarry

    but the real question is….

    are traps gay?

  • Mr0303

    “”If” is more than enough, buddy. Especially if that “if” can save a life.” – no it’s not enough since there is no proof that suggests that the surgery actually saves their live.

    “This is why I said that one should seriously think through things before doing it.” – giving a mentally ill person the option to do this is just a recipe for future regret.

    “Downward trend in the exact study idiots misread.” – “idiots” is not a nice way to address your ideological opponents who used some data in the study to point to the high suicide rate among transsexual individuals.

    “Masochists range in severity, and one such treatment is actually for
    them to find a relationship with someone that can sate their desires.
    Obviously not the only solution, and not for every range of masochist.” – you are deviating from the example I gave. I pointed to an extreme case where a person hires people to beat him up. This is an extreme example, but people also willing to actually undergo the transition is as extreme as you can get.

    “I mean, gender IS fluid.” – no, it’s not. It is strictly related to sex. Being a more feminine man doesn’t make you any less of a man. I suppose one can try and look like a woman and vice versa, but underneath they are still the sex they were born as and this is all they will ever be.

    “You WERE wrong, because they still acknowledged it as a proper term.” – they acknowledged that some lunatics began using it in the 90s and that it has no medical basis, so no basis in reality. The fact that nobody is diagnosing these individuals is quite worrying. Believing that you are something that doesn’t exist is truly a sign of madness. It is my opinion that both transgenders and transsexuals are not a thing.

  • Ckarasu

    Depends. If you knew they were a trap beforehand, then yeah probably.

  • Ckarasu

    Don’t need more proof than that it is a suggested treatment option for Dysphoria and transgenders.

    It’s a hard decision, but it can and does work out for people. That is enough.

    Idiots is the proper term, since they didn’t bother reading the study they cite. But if you didn’t read it, then it doesn’t apply. Perhaps you read a summary that wasn’t properly put together. Shit happens, yo.

    I mean, there are places you can go to have people do similar shit. There’s a limit and a proper process so that injuries aren’t too threatening or anything, but that what those places are. You are getting “beaten up”, but safely.

    Check the dictionary. It’s not as linked as you think. Sex and gender are related, no doubt, but still different.

    Your opinions matters about as much as mine in this, buddy. I’d personally prefer more studies be performed so that we know how to treat transgenders properly. But I will never, ever, be against transitioning as an option until there’s hard proof or a comprehensive study that says it’s bad.

  • Mr0303

    Let’s have a look at those definitions, shall we?

    a

    :sex( the feminine gender)

    b

    : the behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with one sex

    “Either of the two sexes (male and female) especially when considered with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones”

    You would notice that both definitions include the word sex. There is no decoupling of gender from sex. The biological sex is the basis of your gender. The social and cultural differences are often based on the sexual dimorphism between men and women. I suppose the term gender could be referring to a game of pretend where one tries to look like a given sex based on the “social and cultural differences”, but part of that will always be the physical differences between men and women, which cannot be altered, so if they are trying to play the sex they are not, they are doomed to fail.

    “But it ain’t a performance art” – oh, but it is if you believe that it is fluid. One can perform as one gender one day and the opposite (if that is even possible because it’s fluid you know) the other. So gender is a performance art.

  • Ckarasu

    Hahahaha, no. It’s associated with sex, but still different. And yes, fluid. Can’t argue out of this one. This is why transgender is an accepted term, buddy.

  • Matz

    They’re also Nintendo fanboys because they don’t want to bring any SMT game to any platform besides Nintendo handhelds

  • Snorlaxation

    I was never that good at science. But my vote is no. But they can make you gay

  • Mr0303

    “Don’t need more proof than that it is a suggested treatment option for Dysphoria and transgenders.” – wait, but I thought that transgenders are not ill. Why do they need treatment?

    “It’s a hard decision, but it can and does work out for people. That is enough.” – no, it’s a stupid decision that is messing up your body and feeding into your delusion with no proven positive effect.

    “Idiots is the proper term, since they didn’t bother reading the study
    they cite. But if you didn’t read it, then it doesn’t apply. Perhaps you
    read a summary that wasn’t properly put together.” – you are assuming that everybody who used that data didn’t read the study and demonising your opposition. They don’t have to mention the downward trend, just the overly high percentage of suicide among transsexuals.

    “I mean, there are places you can go to have people do similar shit.
    There’s a limit and a proper process so that injuries aren’t too
    threatening or anything, but that what those places are. You are getting
    “beaten up”, but safely.” – so you basically agree with the premise of somebody hiring people to beat them up as long as it’s “safe”. Nothing is 100% safe, especially not life altering operations.

    “Check the dictionary. It’s not as linked as you think. Sex and gender are related, no doubt, but still different.” – you can also check the dictionary for “communism” and I bet you won’t find anything about starving people to death. Same with “feminism” and man-hating. The dictionary is not the arbiter of truth, especially on a matter like this. Gender and sex are interchangeable for me.

    “But I will never, ever, be against transitioning as an option until
    there’s hard proof or a comprehensive study that says it’s bad.” – and I will always be against surgery that reinforces a delusion. Messing up your genitalia and pumping yourself up with hormones is harmful to your body. Especially when done to children.

  • Mr0303

    I can argue out of anything if the arguments are good enough. You not being willing to address them is entirely your issue. If it is accepted that the Earth is flat or that God exists doesn’t mean that this can’t be challenged.

  • Ckarasu

    Transgenders aren’t on their own, but one can be both. Duh.

    It’s not stupid if it works, and it does for some. Unless you can prove that somehow they are unsatisfied. Good luck. I don’t give a shit what your idea of “delusions” entails, either.

    Idiots are idiots. That’s all, buddy. Not demons, and some people could perhaps disagree with the study’s data and perhaps make their own study to find more concrete answers. But using the data to demonstrate a point that isn’t possible to make with said data is idiocy. Plain and simple.

    I agree with whatever is going to lead to a healthy life. You do you, man.

    The only “truth” here is that our definitions are different. The “official” definition doesn’t fit right with you, but don’t expect me to give a shit about that. You’d say the same thing.

    Children should not transition. Ever. Way too early, and most would agree with that. But “messing up your body” is fine if you’re beyond the other treatments as well as an adult.

  • Ckarasu

    Gender is the behaviors associated with a sex, but nowhere does it say in any definition posted that they must match your biological sex. You can be a man with all the behaviors of a woman, and identify as such. Thus, you are transgender.

  • Jettythesunfish

    Your ignorance is the mental illness here, buddy.

  • Mr0303

    “Transgenders aren’t on their own, but one can be both. Duh.” – so using transgender in this context is meaningless then, unless you also name the illness.

    “It’s not stupid if it works, and it does for some.” – the only thing that works here is them damaging their bodies, but you already established that you are OK with that, so the have no common ground to speak of here.

    “I don’t give a shit what your idea of “delusions” entails, either.” – your ideas don’t mean much to me either.

    “But using the data to demonstrate a point that isn’t possible to make with said data is idiocy.” – but they are not doing that, which is why you are demonising and misrepresenting your opposition. They can choose any data point from a study to use.

    “I agree with whatever is going to lead to a healthy life.” – so cutting up your genitalia and allowing other people to beat you up is your idea of healthy. OK then.

    “The only “truth” here is that our definitions are different. The
    “official” definition doesn’t fit right with you, but don’t expect me to
    give a shit about that. You’d say the same thing.” – first you don’t get to presume what I would and wouldn’t say. Second – I said that the dictionary definition is not the end all and be all of the argument. You relying on it as an easy argument from authority is entirely your problem since this is a logical fallacy.

    “Children should not transition. Ever.” – well, at least we agree on something. The problem is that the exact same arguments for sex change surgery can be applied to children. They can be “beyond the other treatments” or it is fine “if” it saves their lives. This is where we differ, you see. In my view nobody is “beyond the other treatments” to the point where they can indulge their mental problems.

  • Mr0303

    And this is why I said that gender is a performance art. By the definition you provided a male actor who is playing a female role is transgender. Plus if gender is fluid how can one be transgender – are you transgender for the period of time you mostly perform like the opposite sex?

    Also as I explained above in my original post that you refused to address that performance is ultimately futile because it is tied to your sex no matter what you do.

  • Mr0303

    Ohh, was the “Your mom is a mental illness!” response taken?

  • Ckarasu

    Kinda.

    Keep thinking that, but it’s still a medically approved procedure that people are allowed to do. Doctors and other medical professionals will suggest it even, depending on the circumstances. That’s enough.

    Cool. It’s just a battle of opinions, anyway.

    Sure, and it’s called misrepresenting that data. Idiots. Especially since that data was taken from one country, so it’s not even applicable en masse. Idiots.

    Healthier than death. OK then.

    I will presume as I wish, bud. Logical fallacy isn’t proper here, since there’s really only two ways to read a word: By the “official” or generally accepted definition or a person’s own interpretation. As such, neither is wrong. Also a note: Logical fallacies also don’t matter if the conclusion is still sound. You rely on this as a crutch like I once did.

    Children can be diagnosed with Dysphoria, yes, but the approach is different and surgery or even medication is NOT recommended. And I agree. The body has not had time to adjust its hormones yet and changing any of that in that period can cause actual long lasting damage. And yes, there is such a thing as “beyond other methods”. Because therapy is imperfect and always will be, since humans are imperfect. Therapy can’t always solve everything, like say depression. How can therapy work when the person’s mind is filtering out everything the therapist says? And meds don’t always work, either.

  • Ckarasu

    But playing =/= truly identifying. And yes, gender is fluid in the sense that it’s not 100% solid. Most people settle into a gender they identify as, though. Some don’t. I don’t think an actual “gender fluid” person should transition, going by what they’re described as.

    Gender is tied to the idea of sex, but not YOUR sex. The body can have its own “ideas” in different brains/chemical compositions. And this can lead to a mismatch in your body and how you actually identify. Thus, not futile at all. Again, it’s not like you can prove transgenders are somehow unsatisfied. And saying they’re “delusional” provides no actual argument, since it’s not as if anyone cares about what you think that means. If people transition and live a full and happy life, then that should be enough for both of us. To think otherwise is selfish.

  • -fishy-GAMEs-

    Hey do you have the GameZard Steam/Corporate Slave $40000 account value infograph?

  • Mr0303

    “Keep thinking that, but it’s still a medically approved procedure that people are allowed to do.” – so is circumcision, but this doesn’t make it right.

    “Sure, and it’s called misrepresenting that data.” – no, they are not. Name calling won’t change that.

    “Healthier than death. OK then.” – you are presuming that it’s either this or death, which is a completely baseless.

    “I will presume as I wish, bud.” – alright-y then. So you like being intellectually dishonest. I’m shocked. Well, now at least I know you don’t argue in good faith.

    “Logical fallacy isn’t proper here” – of course it isn’t. Since you are somehow allowed you use them, right? “As long as the conclusion is sound it doesn’t mean how I arrived at it”. Brilliant. Rather than addressing what I said about the links between sex and gender you always ran to the dictionary as an excuse. Now that I know that you are not interested in leading a proper dialogue it all makes sense.

    “surgery or even medication is NOT recommended” – why? Don’t you want to save their lives? Isn’t it better than death? What if the children are “beyond other methods” since this is a thing as declared by you? I’m sure some of them will be happy afterwards and that’s all we need as proof that this is a good thing, right?

    “Because therapy is imperfect and always will be, since humans are imperfect.” – and surgery is perfect? I guess the divine marshmallows perform those, so it is.

    “And meds don’t always work, either.” – as opposed to life altering surgery which always works. It all makes sense now.

  • Ckarasu

    Circumcision has little to do with actual health, other than maybe hygiene. I know a guy who will need one because of actual health reasons, but he’s old enough.

    It is indeed, as my reasons other than calling them idiots showed. Represent the study in full context or don’t at all. Intellectual dishonesty is not tolerated, as per your words.

    I mean, that has little to do with the argument’s subject but ok. You too, bud. It was an aside. Please learn to read.

    Sex and gender are related, but gender can be the opposite of sex. This is allowed by the definition of gender. It is behaviors related to a sex, but such behaviors can be opposite to what your physical sex is. I have said this before. Keep trying.

    As children? Because it can cause injury due to their body still developing(specifically). Wait till they’re older to do so. There are exceptions to this, but it’s ill advised. Can you read?

    Oh, I said it doesn’t always work. It’s the last resort.

  • Mr0303

    “But playing =/= truly identifying.” – what’s the difference? During the play the actor identifies as the character he plays. For that moment and setting he is the other person.

    “Some don’t.” – the special snowflakes that just can’t decide what to wear today. Sure.

    “Again, it’s not like you can prove transgenders are somehow unsatisfied.” – oh, but I can. Transwomen can’t have children no matter what they do, so their performance is flawed and incomplete. This can’t change, which is why it’s futile.

    I’ve made plenty of arguments based on biological sex to show why I think they are delusional. It is not an argument, just a personal evaluation of their behaviour.

    “If people transition and live a full and happy life, then that should be enough for both of us. To think otherwise is selfish.” – selfish how? I don’t have to agree with their behaviour or approve of it. If personal opinions are selfish, then I suppose I am.

  • Ckarasu

    To play something is to act, but not truly believe. The difference is that one is not a core of who you are.

    They more or less shift how they identify over a longer period of time. Not really day by day.

    Children aren’t necessary to being a woman. Some women are born barren, or choose to not have kids. Who cares?

    Glad we can agree.

  • Mr0303

    “Circumcision has little to do with actual health, other than maybe hygiene.” – doesn’t matter. To quote you “it’s still a medically approved procedure that people are allowed to do.”, so it’s OK, I guess.

    “Represent the study in full context or don’t at all.” – you can pick and choose. You don’t have to represent everything that is mentioned in the study.

    “Intellectual dishonesty is not tolerated, as per your words.” – so does this mean I can freely call you names due to your intellectual dishonesty? I suppose so.

    “I mean, that has little to do with the argument’s subject but ok. You too, bud. It was an aside. Please learn to read.” – oh, I did read. I read perfectly well how you feel free to presume what my position would be and how you are allowed to use logical fallacies in the argument.

    “Sex and gender are related, but gender can be the opposite of sex. This
    is allowed by the definition of gender. It is behaviors related to a
    sex, but such behaviors can be opposite to what your physical sex is. I
    have said this before. Keep trying.” – it really can’t. Transwomen can’t bear children. This is a behaviour they cannot perform no matter how hard they try.

    “As children? Because it can cause injury due to their body still
    developing(specifically). Wait till they’re older to do so. There are
    exceptions to this, but it’s ill advised. Can you read?” – yes, I can read. You want children to die and prevent them from their happiness. Why would you want that?

  • RichardGristle

    Marie at least looked cute though. Pink haired girl up there just has awful design.

  • Feniks

    Its a Japanese game though. If you don’t like the culture don’t play it.

  • Ckarasu

    Sure, like if you’re that guy I know. His, uh, elasticity is shot leading to actual risks. I think it’s funny, but only because he didn’t properly take care of himself.

    You should represent the numbers in their context. In this case, in a specific country. People will then be able to tell that the conclusion is bullshit.

    On the fact that if I didn’t agree with your definition, you wouldn’t care. Yeah, and you’ve demonstrated this by not agreeing with my definition(which is the “official one”).

    And so? What if they don’t want children? There are women that don’t want kids, either. It’s irrelevant to quite a few people. But those that might care would need therapy in addition to transition(if they reach that point).

    EXCEPTIONS.

  • Mr0303

    There are method actors that can be caught in the moment and truly believe that they are that character.

    “They more or less shift how they identify over a longer period of time. Not really day by day.” – but what if they change their minds really, really quickly? Their gender fluidity could be in turmoil.

    “Children aren’t necessary to being a woman.” – yes they are if you fully want to emulate being a woman. So are periods, lactation etc. You will not be able to properly perform every aspect of being a woman unless you are biologically identical to one.

  • Feniks

    Feel free to supply evidence to the contrary.

    Still I think a PC port for the Chinamen would’ve been a good business idea.

  • Ckarasu

    Yeah, but method actors can turn that off. They can change.

    If it’s actually in turmoil, then that’s an actual problem. Perhaps a medical one, since it would imply a rather large and changing chemical imbalance. This would probably fall under hormone therapy rather than transitioning.

    The idea to transition is that you’re as close as possible to your ideal body, so perhaps some will care. But others might not want to have kids. Either way, you would transition knowing the limits of medical technology and accept that. There are post op people that accept this and are living just fine.

  • RichardGristle

    You know what’s more bizarre than wanting to sustain your population? Western women actively encouraging and voting to import foreign third-worlders to displace their own kin and countrymen.

    Besides, we also pay our women to have more kids. We do it via incentives.
    Step 1) Have kids
    Step 2) Kick fathers out of the picture
    Step 3) New step-daddy government gives you NEET BUX $$$

    Don’t be quick to condemn Japanese society.

  • Jaime A.G.

    Trumpism is a mental illness.

  • Mr0303

    “Sure, like if you’re that guy I know.” – no, no, no. It’s OK for everybody since “it’s still a medically approved procedure that people are allowed to do.”.

    “You should represent the numbers in their context.” – sure, but you don’t have to show every single finding of the study. You are also assuming that everybody you disagree with omitted said context.

    “On the fact that if I didn’t agree with your definition, you wouldn’t care.” – where have I said that? Oh, right – you are free to misrepresent me and being intellectually dishonest. Me saying that the dictionary is not a basis for an argument is not simply disagreeing with your definition, but I suppose addressing that argument would require effort on your part.

    “And so? What if they don’t want children?” – doesn’t matter if they want them or not. They can’t perform that bit of the female role. They are physically unable to do so.

    “EXCEPTIONS.” – b-b-but death and happiness!

    “I like the part where you avoided talking about actually misrepresenting
    my argument at the end there. The argument that’s relevant to the
    topic.” – why would I misrepresent your argument? You’ve been so good at addressing mine.

  • Mr0303

    “Yeah, but method actors can turn that off. They can change.” – and so can transgender people.

    “If it’s actually in turmoil, then that’s an actual problem.” – it really isn’t since it’s all made up.

    “Either way, you would transition knowing the limits of medical
    technology and accept that. There are post op people that accept this
    and are living just fine.” – so they recognise that their efforts are ultimately futile and can still be happy. Huh. I wonder if they can do this without the surgery?

  • Mr0303
  • Ckarasu

    Misrepresentation, again. I’ve even explicitly said that stuff like transitioning needs to be discussed heavily. You don’t just “do” it unless you’re very sure and have discussed with professionals.

    And many didn’t. Those who disagreed with the study’s findings should fund their own or wait for one that is more clear. But you are 100% wrong if you apply it to all transgenders, because it’s not broad enough to do so.

    It sure does. If they don’t care about having kids, then not being able to have them is no detriment to them.

    Are you having trouble? When I said exceptions, I mean that severe cases should go through with it.

    I have been good at it, yes. Thanks. You should do better on your end.

  • Ckarasu

    Transgenders cannot. This is the basis for Dysphoria, which is where it gets bad enough that you must be treated.

    Nope.

    Nope. They’re happier in their new body, and more satisfied. They don’t think it was futile, so it wasn’t. Some might not be, but that’s what it means to take a final option. Keep on chugging on that poor logic, buddy.

  • Γεώργιος Αρχαιοκαπηλίδης

    And it has blocked me.

  • Γεώργιος Αρχαιοκαπηλίδης

    Then you have mental illness, buddy. Cuz you are the ignorant one. ;)

  • Γεώργιος Αρχαιοκαπηλίδης

    Why is NeoGAF here?

  • Mr0303

    “Misrepresentation, again. I’ve even explicitly said that stuff like
    transitioning needs to be discussed heavily. You don’t just “do” it
    unless you’re very sure and have discussed with professionals.” – your argument was that since it was a medically approved procedure that some doctors would recommend it’s OK. So is circumcision. So I guess I should accept the mutilation of baby boys as well as mentally ill people doing so to theirs. There was no misrepresentation here to speak of.

    “But you are 100% wrong if you apply it to all transgenders, because it’s not broad enough to do so.” – it’s the only data we have, so it’s not all that wrong. At the very least we can apply it in the country of origin.

    “It sure does. If they don’t care about having kids, then not being able to have them is no detriment to them.” – unless they want to perform as an actual woman. Say somebody raped them. They wouldn’t have any fear of getting pregnant or needing an abortion. Thus they would’ve failed in their performance yet again.

    “Are you having trouble? When I said exceptions, I mean that severe cases should go through with it.” – not really. I’m just having fun seeing how you try to deflect your own arguments when applied to children.

    “I have been good at it, yes. Thanks. You should do better on your end.” – and yet you have ignored many of my points and even openly admitted to using logical fallacies. But I suppose being dishonest is part of the spiel for you. Transtruther if you will.

  • Mr0303

    Yes they can. Gender is fluid after all, so they can revert to their regular one, be that with or without help.

    Yup.

    “They don’t think it was futile, so it wasn’t.” – doesn’t matter if they think that or not. The fact is that it was, because they are unable to fully perform their role.

  • Ckarasu

    Gender isn’t fluid in that case, bud. It’s fluid in that there are multiple factors that determine it and one isn’t 100% male or female. It’s more about which one you identify with more.

    It does matter what they think. It doesn’t matter what you think, though. The person in question decides.

  • Mr0303

    Aha, so the fluidity doesn’t apply here for some bizarre reason. The percentage is somehow stuck.

    “The person in question decides.” – not really. Everyone around them decide on that and people usually base their views on biology.

  • Ckarasu

    Whatever you think bud. Point is that it’s related to the mind and doesn’t necessarily reflect the physical body.

    Yes. Because people don’t give a shit if you think it’s futile. Fulfillment is decided by the self.

  • Ckarasu

    No, my argument was that it was an option. But I have clarified multiple times that it’s not the first thing you should do. And thus, it is “ok”. Because it’s a valid option. Misrepresentation, yet again. As if it’s a recurring theme with you.

    Yeah, and not many are doing that now are they? Because people are idiots.

    That’s silly, and also not relevant to many. People transition accounted for not getting pregnant. They accepted it. Live with that.

    Well, I didn’t bud. I even said exceptions exist, because they really do.

    I have discussed all your points, bud. I only applied the fallacy in regards to your attitude, but it has little bearing on the point in question. Keep going. I can do this all next year.

    And “transtruther”, really? What moron came up with that?

  • Mr0303

    And people apparently can’t change their mind, but they can change their body. Funny how that works.

    “Fulfillment is decided by the self.” – not when your goal is to be recognised by others. The individual in question has to perform for the people.

  • Ckarasu

    Well, yeah they can. But that’s not really about transgenders rather than your silly attempts to link them.

    No, the goal is to be recognized by the self. Kinda the point.

  • porkbun

    so obviously this engine is not too much for vita to handle. P5 on vita when?

  • Mr0303

    “Because it’s a valid option. Misrepresentation, yet again.” – no misrepresentation here. You are arguing that it is a valid option and I’m against that position. Your defence was that it was medically approved and recommended and so is circumcision. It being the “last” option is irrelevant.

    “Yeah, and not many are doing that now are they? Because people are idiots.” – many is a weasel word and I do believe you are applying idiots to all people even though you don’t have a study to justify that.

    “People transition accounted for not getting pregnant. They accepted it. Live with that.” – I’m living perfectly happy knowing that they accepted that they can perform their role in full and that their efforts to do so are futile.

    “Well, I didn’t bud. I even said exceptions exist, because they really do.” – but I can presume that you did it, right? I can presume whatever I want about your position after all. It doesn’t matter if you said it or not.

    “I have discussed all your points, bud. I only applied the fallacy in
    regards to your attitude, but it has little bearing on the point in
    question. Keep going. I can do this all next year.” – actually you didn’t. you kept going back to the dictionary on multiple occasions. You freely misrepresenting my position and using fallacies means that I don’t have to address anything you say in a serious or honest manner. I have absolutely no reason to do so.

    “And “transtruther”, really? What moron came up with that?” – the same type of moron that came up with transgender, transracial and trans species.

  • Mr0303

    “But that’s not really about transgenders rather than your silly attempts to link them.” – and so can transgenders, unless you are saying that they can’t do something that regular people can.

    “No, the goal is to be recognized by the self. Kinda the point.” – given that gender is a social construct they have to consider the views of the society to be able to properly self recognised.

  • Ckarasu

    It being the last option is relevant. It is the context to its validity.

    Not to all. Never to all. That’s retarded.

    Personal satisfaction.

    Sure, but I can explicitly say the opposite of your supposition. Only you look bad.

    Personal definitions matter as much as each other. Who cares? That’s the only “fallacy” but it’s not even that. Official and personal definitions are just the way words work. My dictionary definitions are valid.

    Nah, it’s just you. Transracial is definitely silly, as it had a definite meaning beforehand(about adoptions of different race children it seems) and transpecies is actually not possible in either the mental or physical capacities. Mostly because the mind of an animal is extremely alien to that of any human, no matter how they might argue otherwise. An animal’s brain is extremely different than that of a human. It’s not even something to talk about.

  • Ckarasu

    I mean, they can change their mind on what they want to eat. Or where they want to live. But changing who you are isn’t nearly so simple as to decide that.

    No, it’s entirely on the self. That is the root of transgenders. They don’t feel comfortable in their own bodies. The subject is themselves. This is basic.

  • No_Good_Names_Ever

    Comparing them to those two seems a little extreme; only thing they’ve done so far is mess with the streaming community and stick to what they know well when it comes to platforms.

  • Nin

    Why is dead naming is so bad? Their parents gave them that name. Even if it’s objectively shit, at least treat that name with a modicum of respect.

  • BFG

    And yet you get proven wrong everytime

  • Look at switch japan sales now look at Vita japan sales. Nuff said.

  • Mr0303

    “But changing who you are isn’t nearly so simple as to decide that.” – yes it is. Changing your gender is as simple as performing in a different matter.

    “No, it’s entirely on the self.” – no, it is not. If it was the trans lobby wouldn’t be pushing for special bathrooms and laws about compelled speech where one has to address them with their preferred (often made up) pronoun or face an accusation of a hate crime. Claiming that this is just something personal is rather disingenuous – for one thing you are not trans and yet speak of their feelings and their behaviour quite clearly is in contrast to what you suggest.

  • BFG

    Because women are more useful as mothers/housewives than trying to have high careers, such as politics. Even letting women being part of the armed troops is a huge mistake. This push of “””Gender Equality””” (& feminism) is a meme, because it only created more problems in those past decades (undermining the roles of men, and making women “useless” beyond sex as relationships are a whole hazardous landmine these days).

    The problem with current western society is that we let a lot of degeneracy being labelled as “normal”, alongside of officials trampling on freedom of speech (people being unable to criticize such behaviors) especially in Europe. You can only bet there is going to be a severe backlash in the future if things keep this up.

  • Mr0303

    It being the last option is relevant. It is the context to its validity.” – no, it’s not. You consider it a relevant option and I don’t. Simple as that.

    “Not to all. Never to all. That’s retarded.” – so all people you consider to be idiots just need to add a #NotAll to their claims and the will be OK in your eyes.

    “Personal satisfaction.” – random words.

    “Sure, but I can explicitly say the opposite of your supposition. Only you look bad.” – self evaluating your responses is pretty pathetic. I suppose it’s only OK when you do it.

    “Who cares?” – I care how you approach the discussion and you using logical fallacies and bad faith arguments means that I don’t have to take anything you say seriously.

    “My dictionary definitions are valid.” – sure, but they didn’t address what I said. They held little relevance to the discussion. Your repeated use of the fallacy was nothing more than a deflection method.

    “Nah, it’s just you.” – nah, it’s the same type of lunacy whether you admit it or not. You may want to discuss this with your SJW friends. I’m sure they’ll throw the same weak arguments about happiness, cultural an societal performance (as defined in the dictionary – http://www.dictionary.com/browse/transracial), death as an alternative and last resort crap.

  • BFG

    A steady 6k-8k weekly unit sales isnt a “dead” console especially from a hardware made in fall 2011.

  • In November Vita only sold 3,000 weekly compared to it’s competition switch which sold more than 80,000. If you Sonyfags think the Xbone is dead then the Vita is extinct. XD

  • Ckarasu

    OK, so it’s just a silly disagreement on your part. Ok then.

    Are you a fucking moron? You can’t even read, man. Holy shit.

    Random words #2.

    I don’t care about that, bud. Again, the non-fallacy was irrelevant to the overall topic. Just a petty distinction on your part.

    So the argument is just a disagreement in opinion then. Fallacy or not didn’t matter. OK.

    You ARE a fucking moron! Great, we cleared that up. The fact that I swing words like retarded around is incompatible with a SJW by nature, btw. Hell, I was laughing it up when Trump won.

  • BFG
  • Ckarasu

    Nope, it is not.

    As mentioned before, your being a moron shines through. But I’ll address this to be nice, my special fellow: It’s still about the self, bud. That wasn’t even a counterpoint. The bathrooms are so that both transgenders and non-trans can be comfortable, since there would be a fair bit of awkwardness if a untransitioned woman went into the woman’s bathrooms, yeah? Among other things, of course.

  • Mr0303

    “OK, so it’s just a silly disagreement on your part. Ok then.” – no, it’s a disagreement on my part that you failed to grasp multiple times.

    “Are you a fucking moron? You can’t even read, man. Holy shit.” – some more petty insults really elevate your argument.

    “I don’t care about that, bud. Again, the non-fallacy was irrelevant to the overall topic. Just a petty distinction on your part.” – oh, I know that you don’t care about the quality of your arguments. You made that perfectly clear.

    “So the argument is just a disagreement in opinion then. Fallacy or not didn’t matter. OK.” – no, it isn’t, but you had to address it otherwise and you are not very good at that. Personal attacks and fallacies are more your thing.

    “You ARE a fucking moron! Great, we cleared that up.” – ah, another one of your pathetic attempts at an insult. At least you are somewhat consistent.

    “The fact that I swing words like retarded around is incompatible with a
    SJW by nature, btw. Hell, I was laughing it up when Trump won.” = “I’m not an SJW guys! I insult people, use logical fallacies and believe the same gender theory nonsense as they do, but I totally like Trump!” LOL.

  • Mr0303

    Yes, it is.

    “As mentioned before, your being a moron shines through. But I’ll address this to be nice, my special fellow” – and as I mentioned before your lame attempts at a personal attack show the quality of your reasoning. Also you are very far from being nice, given your intellectual dishonesty and general hostility.

    Not going to say anything about the authoritarian pronoun issue? Didn’t think so.

  • Ckarasu

    Oh, I grasped it. Then let it go because it belonged in the garbage.

    No, the insult is pretty heartfelt.

    The shit quality here is your non-arguments bud.

    I never had to address anything when it comes to opinion. I just chose to. A disagreement of opinion is a simple matter of course. I am not obligated to actually have to change how you think.

    It comes from the heart.

    Hah, no. Trump is a dumbass of a high order, but the overreactions were the thing that fueled by enjoyment. All the people who felt like the world was ending just because he won, and how they couldn’t fathom how their attitude resulted in their loss. It was great.

  • Ckarasu

    Nah.

    Oh, the attack was separate from the reasoning, as anyone who can read could tell. Perhaps you need to learn to discern separate subjects from each other.

    What is there to say? It’s retarded. It’s one of the few things we’re in agreement on.

  • Mr0303

    “Oh, I grasped it.” – sure you did. This is why you kept screaming about the “last resort”.

    “No, the insult is pretty heartfelt.” – I suppose you do operate on feelings.

    “The shit quality here is your non-arguments bud.” – not really. Your playground tactics are still laughable.

    ” I am not obligated to actually have to change how you think.” – you are not obliged to do anything. You simply chose to selectively avoid what I said and dismiss it as an opinion.

    “It comes from the heart.” – it’s not from the brain, that’s for sure.

  • Ckarasu

    Hahahaha, nice try.

    Everyone does to some extent, but no. I operate on logic, like the logic that it doesn’t really matter what you think in the end.

    I mean, these past few hours have been great fun for me, watching you flounder about. If we’re both happy then it’s a win win.

    Well, it is an opinion. You said what your definitions were, I posted “official” definitions. You disagreed. That simple. Doesn’t actually matter why, since they’re your own interpretations. It literally ends there. There’s nothing else to do.

    Sure it does.

  • Mr0303

    “Oh, the attack was separate from the reasoning, as anyone who can read
    could tell. Perhaps you need to learn to discern separate subjects from
    each other.” – no it wasn’t. It was a response to what I said without any further elaboration. Perhaps you need to learn to examine your own behaviour before attacking others.

    “What is there to say? It’s retarded. It’s one of the few things we’re in agreement on.” – aha, so trangenders trying to push their made-up identity on other people is totally not in clash of being a personal thing. Right.

  • Ckarasu

    No, see, I insulted you and THEN addressed the argument. Which is fine, as the insult isn’t the crux of my argument in any way. Just for you, babe.

    Transgenders wanting people to be expelled or even arrested for misgendering them is the retarded thing. It’s more than that kinda thing deserves. At worst, the other person was being a jerk. As if that’s somehow worth punishing harshly.

  • So you admit the Switch killed Vita.

  • True Goddess Reincarnation

    I thought the game and characters were shit. Was I the only one?

  • BFG

    Re-read the comment above

  • True Goddess Reincarnation

    Shit son tell that to Atlus.

  • CrusaderEsper

    See my previous statement: “no matter how many hormones he takes or how he mutilates his genitals, he is still biologically male.”
    Just because I refuse to go along with the mental delusion that mutilating your genitals and taking hormones somehow magically changes one’s biological gender does not mean I wish to burn these people at the stake. And yes, in polite company I will refer to them as the gender they are attempting to masquerade as. But again, we’re talking about a fictional character here. No matter how many times people refer to Erica as a “he”, he won’t collapse into a puddle of tears because he isn’t real.

  • Zack Attack

    Debating on getting the Vita version since I just got one for neptunia and I already have it on Xbox.

  • Chocolate ISISCream

    Pcucks be like: “WAHHHH WAHHHH WHERE’S THE PC RELEASE ATLUS????”

    https://img.fireden.net/v/image/1449/44/1449449712465.png

  • These petulant whiners are an utter cancer on the video games industry.

  • Dear lord, it’s like reading a post from ResetEra.

  • Probably not. Remember the amount of grief over the P5 undub audio?

  • ProxyDoug

    As the game is passed on TV show, I think they could have the name be Golden Playhouse: Catherine and have the sequels under the Golden Playhouse name, and have the other games hosted by Trisha as well.
    https://i.ytimg.com/vi/4pU04IdhDvA/maxresdefault.jpg

  • Sure, but if they can’t bring back the old English cast, maybe we’ll see the Japanese dub. Plus, we can always petition Atlus like last time.

  • I’ve never actually played it (or seen videos of it), but if my ears can listen to the angelic voice of Sakamoto Maaya, I might actually get it.

  • Mr0303

    ” I operate on logic” – LOL.

    “I mean, these past few hours have been great fun for me, watching you flounder about. If we’re both happy then it’s a win win.” – yeah, I guess it was so fun to you that you resorted to ALL CAPS replies and insults. Sure. That’s believable.

    “Well, it is an opinion. You said what your definitions were, I posted
    “official” definitions. You disagreed. That simple. Doesn’t actually
    matter why, since they’re your own interpretations. It literally ends
    there. There’s nothing else to do.” – I presented evidence as to why sex and gender are linked and you chose to ignore it by demanding I look at the dictionary definitions simply stating that they are not as related. It was your way to weasel out and you continue to do it. You have shown that you are both unwilling and incapable in engaging in an honest discussion by resorting to fallacies to terminate it.

  • Ckarasu

    Keep trying to be pedantic. It’s amusing.

    Can you prove I’ve not been having fun? I mean, I’m still responding.

    Well, I also presented evidence to prove that the definition of Gender allows for them to be separate. You chose to ignore it. Your loss.

  • Ckarasu

    Also, “weasel words” is just short hand for “I don’t have a counter argument, so let me try to deflect”. Hilarious.

  • Migi

    There is proof your right and it’s in the BBC doc This World, Transgender Kids: Who Knows Best?

    cause it shows how the Trans community with the help of leftist
    are using children as pawns to make themselves feel better and grab more
    power on a political front. most children that think they are trans aren’t really trans but Gay or Bi and most snap out of that delusion through therapy. it also debunks their bullshit theory of a man’s brain in a woman body and vica versa.

    Canada banned the Doc cause the country is so pro delusional.

  • MILFlover

    PC RELEASE WHEN BROS THIS ISN’T FAIR?

  • Ckarasu

    Oh boy, reading the transcript is a gold mine. The leading pyschologist had his license revoked, and one of his opening lines is “A four-year-old might say that he’s a dog. Um…do you go out and buy dog food?”. No one with a working brain would make that comparison. His own methods are skewed, even. And his results aren’t even given proper context in the show. The 80% figure he touted was only in reference to a small number of children(44), and not all of them showed signs of being transgender. It also didn’t account for people simply not following up.

    The show was harmless, if fairly biased. Shouldn’t have been banned, but it wasn’t objective by any means.

  • Migi

    HE had his license revoked cause The delusional trans people can’t cope with the fact that majority aren’t trans and then they can’t feel special anymore. 88% of his patients stopped trying to be a different gender only 12% kept going on so it means that you’r just trying to force transgender on a new generation with all the Trans propaganda.

    The whole reason it got banned shows the delusions of the Trans community cause they can’t stand against scientific facts. Only conclusions the trans people can come with is their feeling not facts.

    It was very objective .Problem for you is like i said, other side have facts and scientific proof like the neurologist who said there are no male or female brains there are just brains and the brain adept basically to its surrounding, Which would also mean if Trans love to pomp their delusions through mainstream media kids might be incline to mimic that.

    Even most kids that thought they were trans are simply just Gay or Bi even at the end it shows the close mindedness of the LGBTQ community by attacking a trans person who regretted her change and for coming out with her conclusion, Same way the LGBTQ community drove AV actress:

    August Ames to commit suicide by attacking anybody who dare criticize their point of view or a person’s personal opinion about it all.

  • Ckarasu

    He had his license revoked because there was an independent investigation done on him. They found his methods outdated and ineffective. I looked it up, as should anyone.

    Yeah, of 100 children which is still on the small side. And apparently not all of which might be transgender of dysphoric. The guy is not forthcoming on this.

    Facts not present in the show, that I bothered looking at. His studies are bunk. At least have someone that knows what they’re talking about. The neuroscientist is the closest, but study in that area isn’t exactly complete and doesn’t disprove transgenders at all(she doesn’t even say it’s untrue save for with very young children).

    It was not objective. Barely any counterpoints were shown against him, and his studies were presented without proper context. It was ass.

    People are dipshits on any side. What else is new? But you’re joking if you think they represent all of the trans community. That’s silly.

  • Migi

    Yes they were outdated and ineffective according to Susan J. Bradley, cause she claimed he was using reparative or conversion therapy which he denied ever using on the patients. Also funny how the groups that accuse him of it are groups that have big interest in the Trans Gender community.

    Off course its on the small side cause the Trans community couldn’t cope with the Idea that they aren’t as normal as they make people believe they are. Cause in their delusional minds they wanna feel special and normal at the same time.

    If you got your bullshit facts from CBCnews or The Guardian i doubt they are completely accurate cause those news site always pander to the leftist special groups with whining and enforcing their opinion as those of absolutes.

    You can’t get a Unbias opinion on the matter cause nowadays everybody has picked a side they either get indoctrinated with this bullshit during college same with the Feminism garbage which is also a load of bulslhit

    Your just holding on your so called feelings cause there are no real studies that proof being Trans is something real the whole psychiatric community is devided on the topic but people who are against these delusion aren’t allowed to try their theory incase it may harm the patient mentaly. Your solution is let him change and if he doesn’t like it and kills himself it’s not your fault but society’s fault.

    Always making excuses when the fact doesn’t suit ya. Also let parents decide if they want their children treated with his method instead of forcing your will onto somebody else. LGBTQ community always whined and bitched about wanting to be left alone yet you constantly enforce your will on others.

    Like i said it wasn’t objective cause it didn’t suit your narrative. there most likely were no counterpoints cause the Trans community has no counterpoint towards the facts. Seems the Trans community itself was confused with the Doc cause they couldn’t get over the idea that they might not be as normal as they’d like to be.

    The last is an example of how Trans community is excusing this behavior by blaming the victims. I didn’t see the trans outrage when she got killed but rather the blame for her opinion so your nothing but a bunch of hypocrites.

  • Ckarasu

    I got my “bullshit” from multiple sources. Mostly looking up the actual evaluation.

    My solution is to go to therapy as your first step. If that doesn’t work, which is possible, then consider hormone therapy or transitioning after extensive talks. Such is the rational course of action.

    I mean, the facts don’t suit you either. His study and numbers are proven bunk. There’s just not enough data for anyone, really.

    Facts are that he isn’t reliable. And of course there are counterpoints. It takes no effort to see that.

    Blaming her? Nah, you’re making shit up. What happened to her was wrong, and the people to goaded her should see jail time. Get your head out of your butt.

  • Jettythesunfish

    Ah, being snarky are we? All you’ve been spouting about transgenderism is bullshit. Enough already.

  • Migi

    I like how I’m supposse to take your word for it. Let me guess those sources are linked to Transgender community or pro.

    What i find so weird is that why fire and hound Kenneth Zucker instead of supervising his work to see if it works and it is what he says it is. Insted of trying to shut him up and close his clinic. What i find so weird is everytime somebody critices the whole idea of Trans being mental disorder get’s dismissed instead of more closely examend.

    I don’t think kids should be dragged into a Gender war and neither are they old enough too decide what they can or want to be at a young age. Next thing you’ll folks be normalizing is pedofilia and the excuse will be ”A child doesn’t know if and when he wants to be loved so we make that decision for him” Leave children alone in these gender wars and let parents decide for themselves and when the kid is aold enough and he still wants to let him. In the end you can’t change the fact that they’ll never really be a boy or a girl even with surgery.

    It is true that there isn’t massive data but you can blame that on the Trans side for wanting to silence anybody who questions the norm. Right now the only reason people are going with the idea if i feel trans, I am trans is because of feelings.

    Facts are also that many interest groups would love to back the delusion of Trans gender cause it has now become a money market even for other psychiatrist, Cause Trans people always need mental health cause even the transition isn’t real cause fact also is that hey will never be the opposite sex.

    Ya the Independant made it look very much like it was her fault, by stating.
    August Ames dead: 23-year-old adult entertainment actor’s body found after homophobia row.

    Yep the ”after homophobia row” in other words Cause she mentioned her opinion not to sleep with gay guys she get’s called out for her opinion as if she was attacking gays. Even some on twitter made it sound like she deserved it or else she should have just shut up.

  • Mr0303

    I’m responding to you in kind. Transgenderism is a mental illness. Deal with it.

  • I came to bitch a little bit about the lack of a PC release, and I get a long discussion on transgenderism.

    wew

  • Mr0303

    “No, see, I insulted you and THEN addressed the argument.” – oh really? Now let’s play “find the argument in the following statement” – “Are you a fucking moron? You can’t even read, man. Holy shit.”.

    “Transgenders wanting people to be expelled or even arrested for misgendering them is the retarded thing.” – and it’s completely counter to what you suggested.

  • Mr0303

    “Can you prove I’ve not been having fun? I mean, I’m still responding.” – you still responding doesn’t mean you are having fun. Your salty responses run counter to that. I could take your word for it, but given your dishonesty I won’t be doing that.

    “Well, I also presented evidence to prove that the definition of Gender
    allows for them to be separate. You chose to ignore it. Your loss.” – dishonesty again. I didn’t ignore your evidence. In fact I addressed it at which point your deep response was “Hahahaha, no.”.

  • Mr0303

    Yes, weasel words are a deflection method. See – you start to learn.

  • Snorlaxation

    that wasn’t my point. My point was, yeah Erica’s a fictional character, drawn and pixelated and whatnot, so even when it’s easier because she’s fake, you still choose not to.
    But honestly, in ‘polite’ company is more than enough, and better than those who choose to be publicly ugly for no reason.
    Good enough for me.

  • Snorlaxation

    ok

  • Snorlaxation

    you’ll find that most soldier’s wouldn’t agree with you since being tactics and numbers are the most important aspects of war, and both men and women are capable of carrying and handling all the necessary armaments and protective gear.

    You don’t seem to realize that all this feminazi culture and toxic aspects of benign movment groups are the Backlash themselves to such stupid machismo bullshit, don’t you? I blame stupid people (men and women) for getting so up in arms about two dudes or two women who just want to have a life and get married, all because of stupid religious nonsense. As for your gender politics opinions, you sound like a troll.

    Actually no, you sound like those freaky women who think men should only be used for breeding and that a society of women would be free of problems. That’s how crazy you sound. You’re the same as them, just on the opposing side, so thanks to snowflakes and backwater weirdos like you, this country is all fucked up.

  • Snorlaxation

    Sustain their population in a country that’s already full to bursting? Are you joking? Japan is and has been so full for years now that they’ve literally been forced to build Upwards to deal with their lack of space.
    Their population is not anywhere near ‘OH NO LEVELS TOO LOW DANGER’, so I don’t know what kind of baseless point that was.

    I’m not sure who specifically you’re commenting on regarding women voting for people to …what? Have people from underdeveloped countries move here? Our govt would only allow that if they came legally, and last time I checked nothing is getting done or passed these days without republican support… so…
    (although to be fair, I’ll admit that i do have issues with the more realistic issue of sending jobs over seas, but that’s big business for you).

    And you can whine about women getting the long end of the stick all you want, (because yes, there are biased judges for instance that will give women more control of their children simply because they think the woman is better suited, even if she’s horrible) but our govt has yet to actually do what I said and PAY them directly just to leave the workforce.

    And just because i’m critiquing japanese govt doesn’t mean I don’t have valid criticisms for my own govt and our huge issues.

  • Snorlaxation

    have you played the game, or did you just read the article title and comments? It’s not set in japan. You’ll find other game studious that try to set games in other countries also include their culture in the plot or development of it.

  • Snorlaxation

    and as for August ames, don’t blame any one community for her killing herself.
    She got rightly blasted for pushing stupid and IMMEDIATELY disproven claims, then couldn’t handle it when other straight porn stars and a few gay ones called her out on being ignorant.

    Yeah, it’s unfortunate that she Chose to kill herself, but much like any comment section here on niche gamer, you’ll find that the messages she was getting prior to her death weren’t filled with comments of ‘kys’ or some such.

  • Snorlaxation

    Damn it they were right. They should’ve named her Qatherine

  • JohnnyCageFan2

    You don’t care what the APA has to say!?

    Edit: Oh, you meant a different APA. Damn.

  • Switch BTFO the Vita again! HA!

  • JohnnyCageFan2

    > Atlus Rumored To Be Working On A New Game Based On A Popular PS3 Title

    Guy 1: “Are they going to go left…” <..>

    Atlus: “Nah, we’re going to stay home. :)”

    ——
    I’ll take your well wishes (as halfhearted as they seem).

  • Jettythesunfish

    Ah, spoken like a true bigot.

  • Mr0303

    Ah, spoken like a true SJW.

  • JohnnyCageFan2

    But the Xbox (both versions) was outsold roughly 18-1 last week and 4-1 this week in Japan against the Vita…

  • Ckarasu

    No, the ACTUAL report. The one published by the independent review. It’s on the site.

    That’s what the review did. They supervised him and determined that he wasn’t practicing proper care.

    Kids shouldn’t transition or be forced to go through the tougher aspects unless it’s the final straw. Even the people that were pro-trans in the show agreed with that. But you’re a fool if you think anyone who is from the pro-trans movement is gonna even attempt to normalize pedophiles. LGBT is pretty staunchly against them. There is a lot of hate there.

    No, we simply haven’t had the opportunity to gather that much data yet. Scientific communities have made it quite clear that, somewhere, someone will do it regardless. It’s a matter of time.

    Fun fact: Zucker is pro-trans as well, just not with children. Probably surprised you there, since you’re pointing to him quite a bit. But his clinic did offer referrals for transition surgery. Shocking, huh?

    Well, yeah. I can’t remember the names of the guys, but they were far up their own asses about her statement. And tried to play off their role as “not their fault”. Douchebags, the lot of them.

  • Ckarasu

    Well, you can’t. Not my fault.

    No.

  • Ckarasu

    Well, it’s your attempt at deflection yes.

  • Mr0303

    “Well, you can’t. Not my fault.” – but it is entirely your fault. After all you wrote this sentence.

    “No.” – a very in-depth argument I came to expect from you.

  • Mr0303

    Unlike you I haven’t used weasel words.

  • Ckarasu

    Well, I mean you can make up what fantasies you want. Whatever floats your boat.

    Of course you didn’t. Your only counterargument was essentially that you didn’t agree for personal reasons, which isn’t much of an argument. Again, irrelevant. Your definition matters no more than mine, regardless as to why. You say gender and sex are tied together and can’t diverge, but I argue otherwise citing that nowhere in the definition does it say they cannot. And that’s correct. It’s pretty accepted in academia and professional areas, as I even pointed out. And with words, the only thing that matters is that the definition is accepted,

  • Ckarasu

    Doesn’t really matter. I haven’t either, by my definition.

  • Ckarasu

    Nah, the onus is on you to read what people write bud.

    I mean, you’re so far up your own ass that you can’t see that I literally never said people should be expelled or jailed for misgendering. Nor have I implied it. Perhaps take your head out of your little ass and pay attention.

  • Mr0303

    It does matter since you challenged my statement as a deflection. So you haven’t used weasel words according to you. This constant self evaluation that you give your own arguments is quite funny.

  • Ckarasu

    Hey man, anything to give you that validation you seek.

  • Mr0303

    “Nah, the onus is on you to read what people write bud.” – I did read it, which is why I quoted it as an example of you just throwing insults with no arguments whatsoever.

    “I mean, you’re so far up your own ass that you can’t see that I
    literally never said people should be expelled or jailed for
    misgendering. Nor have I implied it. Perhaps take your head out of your
    little ass and pay attention.” – but you did say that transgenderism is all about the self acceptance and this forcing of pronouns on others is in opposition to that.

  • Mr0303

    You are incapable of giving me validation, but you’re quite good for a laugh.

  • Ckarasu

    Sure thing, champ. Still not accurate because in that instance it was in response to you acting retarded and making a conclusion that wasn’t supported by my statement but hey.

    And did I ever say that people should be forced to do so? I don’t think I did. As if, perhaps, you are pulling actual shit out of your little ass.

  • Mr0303

    “Well, I mean you can make up what fantasies you want. Whatever floats your boat.” – not taking your word given that there’s evidence to the contrary is hardly a fantasy.

    “Your only counterargument was essentially that you didn’t agree for personal reasons, which isn’t much of an argument.” – that’s another misrepresentation from you. I pointed out that both definitions of gender you provided were closely related to the biological sex. Then I elaborated. This is not about definitions, but rather biological facts.

  • Ckarasu

    I fear that no one, not even yourself, can.

  • Mr0303

    So the as long as a conclusion is not supported by your statement you are free to insult people? How nice of you.

    “And did I ever say that people should be forced to do so? I don’t think I
    did. As if, perhaps, you are pulling actual shit out of your little
    ass.” – are you calling the behaviour of trans people shit? Well, that’s awfully bigoted of you. You should re-read my previous statement carefully. If the transgenders’ game of pretend was just about them they wouldn’t behave in this manner.

  • Ckarasu

    Closely but not linked buddy. Both definitions I posted allow for a separation of the mind and body. You didn’t post anything that actually debunked that. It is ENTIRELY about the definitions, since that is what gives words their meaning. The fact that this is actually quite accepted, that gender is a construct of the mind and a person’s environment, will forever elude you I fear.

  • Mr0303

    Your care for me is touching, but fear not – after playing with you for a while I feel quite validated.

  • Jettythesunfish

    So, it’s quite alright for you to claim that trans people are mentally ill, but if someone has a problem with that, you accuse them of being an SJW? You make no sense.

  • Ckarasu

    Of course it would. Because like anyone else in any orientation, people in large numbers can be stupid. People being stupid isn’t somehow negating that it’s still rooted in the self. Always will be. And calling people stupid for being stupid will always be A-OK.

  • Ckarasu

    I sure hope so, sport. But I fear you are deluding yourself.

  • Mr0303

    “Both definitions I posted allow for a separation of the mind and body.” – something you are an expert in.

    “You didn’t post anything that actually debunked that.” – no, I posted how in practice those can’t be separated.

    Some lunatics accepting that gender is a performance art and not tied to biological sex is something that I have accepted. Unfortunately that’s not the case.

  • Mr0303

    Yes, because gender dysphoria is a mental illness and you threw the bigotry card at me for pointing out the obvious.

  • Mr0303

    You don’t get to deflect this as just stupidity. These trans people are representing their interests when pushing for those laws. They want society wide acceptance and it is clearly not just about the self for them.

  • Ckarasu

    Hah, another attempt at a jab! That’s the spirit.

    Well, no you didn’t prove any of that. A poor argument, maybe, but the fact is that behaviors aren’t necessarily representative of the body of the person. Kinda simple.

    If by lunatics you mean scientists and medical professionals then sure. Because, again, this IS accepted by them. You calling them lunatics only throws your sanity in question.

  • Mr0303

    You fear a lot of things that have no basis in reality. This can’t be healthy for you.

  • Ckarasu

    I mean, keep thinking that. It’s healthier than reality.

  • Ckarasu

    I do get to. You’re not my boss nor are you seemingly mature enough to know better. People are stupid. Stupid people flock together and do stupid things. And yes, forcing people to call them their preferred gender rather than simply discussing it is stupid. But, think of this: There are transgenders who accept that perhaps people don’t want to and are fine with discussing it. Who are fine not lobbying for such laws. Crazy that!

  • Mr0303

    “A poor argument, maybe, but the fact is that behaviors aren’t necessarily representative of the body of the person.” – they absolutely are representative of the body of the person. One cannot escape the biological reality of who they are. No amount of clothing and surgery will change that.

    “If by lunatics you mean scientists and medical professionals then sure.” – gender studies “scientists” and psychologist who profit off of the gender madness aren’t exactly people I respect. BTW – another argument from authority from you, but at this point we know how much you love that logical fallacy.

  • Mr0303

    ” It’s healthier than reality.” – speaking from experience, I see.

  • Ckarasu

    Of course you can. You can be satisfied with your transitioned body. The mind can easily accept that. No counterarguments are even possible to that.

    Doesn’t matter if you “respect” them. And you gotta prove they’re all bias to the point of making their opinion irrelevant(since you ARE claiming essentially this). Good luck with that.

    “logical fallacy” as a counterargument is a fallacy in of itself, bud. You have to prove the authority is not somehow relevant or perhaps wrong. This is actually a thing. “Argument from fallacy” is what it’s called, I think.

  • Mr0303

    “There are transgenders who accept that perhaps people don’t want to and are fine with discussing it.” – ah, the #NotAll again. It doesn’t matter if these individuals exist. The vast majority with the lobbying power are pushing for this, which again is in contrast to the self acceptance line of reasoning.

  • Jettythesunfish

    Well, you’re factually incorrect.

  • Jettythesunfish

    Well, you’re factually incorrect.

  • Ckarasu

    “I know you are but what am I”

    We can do this forever, really. Probably find new ways of saying that, if you want. I’m up for it.

  • Jettythesunfish

    Well, you’re factually incorrect.

  • Ckarasu

    Of course you can. You can be satisfied with your transitioned body. The mind can easily accept that. No counterarguments are even possible to that.

    Doesn’t matter if you “respect” them. And you gotta prove they’re all bias to the point of making their opinion irrelevant(since you ARE claiming essentially this). Good luck with that.

    “logical fallacy” as a counterargument is a fallacy in of itself, bud. You have to prove the authority is not somehow relevant or perhaps wrong. This is actually a thing. “Argument from fallacy” is what it’s called, I think.

  • Ckarasu

    “I know you are but what am I”

    We can do this forever, really. Probably find new ways of saying that, if you want. I’m up for it.

  • Ckarasu

    Well, yes. Because somehow you’re dumb enough to equate the actions of some to the whole.

  • Ckarasu

    No, he means both.

  • Mr0303

    One can be satisfied with their new body, but they cannot escape who they are biologically. As I stated before – surgery and clothes cannot change who you are.

    “No counterarguments are even possible to that.” – how open-minded of you.

    I don’t have to prove that they are all biased. #NotAll. The people whose entire profession relies on gender being a social construct aren’t really going to question it. So them accepting it is a matter of fact.

    “You have to prove the authority is not somehow relevant” – done.

  • Mr0303

    Repeating it three times won’t make it true, just so you know.

  • Ckarasu

    If they’re satisfied then that’s enough.

    Indeed. What are you going to say to a trans person who is happy with their body? “I don’t agree with that” like an autistic dumbass? I’d like to see that.

    Like the APAs? OK pal.

    Well, you didn’t. APA is still pretty heavily cited in the medical world. It’s entirely relevant. And not questioning it? My what a world you live in if you missed the debate.

    Argument from fallacy. Hypocrite.

  • Mr0303

    And you are doing the exact same thing with the self acceptance line of reasoning. There are transgenders that seek societal approval and given that they are representing the majority I’m quite right to point this as a counter argument.

  • Ckarasu

    Oh, no. See, the entire definition of transgender relates to the self. Not being satisfied with YOUR body. Fucking hell, you can’t read.

  • Jettythesunfish

    Yes, that was an error. But you’re still incorrect. Try doing your research.

  • Mr0303

    “If they’re satisfied then that’s enough.” – no it’s not. This is going back to the self acceptance versus the societal acceptance argument and the actions of the majority of that population represent the latter.

    “Indeed. What are you going to say to a trans person who is happy with
    their body? “I don’t agree with that” like an autistic dumbass? I’d like
    to see that.” – I can say that he mutilated his genitals for a delusion.

    “Well, you didn’t. APA is still pretty heavily cited in the medical
    world. It’s entirely relevant. And not questioning it? My what a world
    you live in if you missed the debate.” – the Bible is also heavily cited around the world. This doesn’t mean that the Church is the unquestionable authority of whether god exists.

    “Argument from fallacy. Hypocrite.” – nothing hypocritical here. Pointing out the issues with your arguments is not fallacious, quite the contrary. You simply want to use fallacies as you please to avoid actual arguments. Again.

  • Mr0303

    Yeah, yeah. And the definition of National Socialism doesn’t say anything about the Jews. We have observable behaviour that is counter to your little definition excuse.

  • Ckarasu

    Yes it is. It is enough.

    Autistic dumbass it is! Sperg away.

    Of course not, because the faith isn’t a science. Nor does it have terribly many studies to demonstrate its logic aside from referencing the book.

    Argument from fallacy.

  • Ckarasu

    Sure bud. I mean, we don’t, but you can believe what you want.

  • Mr0303

    I’ve done my research. The DSM5 (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) does classify gender dysphoria as a mental illness.

  • Mr0303

    So transgenders are not pushing for the gender pronoun laws then? This is something I apparently dreamt up.

  • Ckarasu

    Well, you have! Welcome to the waking world.

    In seriousness: You’re an idiot, full stop. But here’s something simple: What headway is being made in that push? None, because the group isn’t large enough. Save for very insular cultures that value feelings, the group just doesn’t have the numbers to make that kind of push. Even then, you’d have to prove that the majority of trans people agree with this(which is not a task that can be accomplished easily), because a minority number cannot represent the whole.

    And EVEN then this is based on the idea that they are being discriminated against by people misgendering them, which is a valid feeling even if the conclusion is ass. So they would push for laws that prevent discrimination like any other group. So even your ass backward logic doesn’t even hold up, because any group that feels they are being discriminated against would act out.

  • Mr0303

    No it’s not.

    Petty insults.

    “Of course not, because the faith isn’t a science. Nor does it have
    terribly many studies to demonstrate its logic aside from referencing
    the book.” – just referencing a book, huh? You mean like the dictionary?

    “Argument from fallacy.” – if you beg a bit harder to be absolved from committing those it may actually work. Do repeat your mantra one more time please.

  • Ckarasu

    Yes it is. Your feelings are literally irrelevant. We can continue this circle forever. Doesn’t change that you’re being retarded.

    Seems to be true, though.

    Studies, forums and surveys as well as the general lexicon all make up the work behind the studies of the mind.

    I mean, it’s still true. You’ve done nothing other than spout “fallacy” without context to its relevance to the conclusion.

  • Mr0303

    “You’re an idiot, full stop.” – how nice of you. I guess this is your “enjoyment” shinning through.

    “What headway is being made in that push? None, because the group isn’t large enough.”
    https://openparliament.ca/bills/42-1/C-16/

    I do believe that the phrase here is “eat crow”.

    I have proven that a subset of trans people acting as representatives made this push and accomplished it with no major protests from the trans community at large.

    If they are forcing people to use your pronouns otherwise they consider this a discrimination it is a clear indicator that they demand societal approval and it is not just about self acceptance.

  • Ckarasu

    It IS! I like calling people names when warranted. Especially if it rustles them. It’s good stuff.

    Yeah, Canada. As I qualified.

    Uh, in Canada. Yeah. Culture is different.

    It’s little different from racial group seeking anti-hate laws, even if they’re extreme. The core values remain the same. It is about the self and feeling comfortable in your body. Nothing you’ve said disproves that.

  • Mr0303

    Nothing to do with feelings. Just biology.

    “Seems to be true, though.” – it is true that you are being a hostile person, who resorts to insults when there are no arguments/fallacies left to throw out there.

    “Studies, forums and surveys as well as the general lexicon all make up the work behind the studies of the mind.” – so? Studies can be flawed or rigged, forums and surveys non-representative. For psychology in general it was recently found that only of third of the studies could be replicated. This is hardly reliable.

    Source: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/scientists-replicated-100-psychology-studies-and-fewer-half-got-same-results-180956426/

    “I mean, it’s still true. You’ve done nothing other than spout “fallacy” without context to its relevance to the conclusion.” – aren’t you tired of lying? I did explicitly state why your authority is bogus. I know you don’t enjoy criticism of the silly ways you try to justify your positions, but still.

  • Ckarasu

    You’re butthurt about it bub. No one cares.

    It is true that you have no idea what you’re saying.

    No, you haven’t. You’ve got to prove, not assume.

  • Ckarasu

    Also gotta prove those studies are part of the flawed ones.

  • Mr0303

    Just to let you know – it’s the rustled one that resorts to insults.

    So now we’re ignoring the concrete example because it’s Canada? Isn’t this awfully convenient.

    Forcing people to use your preferred pronoun does mean that you seek societal approval. You are basically saying that they can’t feel comfortable in their body until all of society approves of their lifestyle. This is never going to happen and thus they are pushing for laws. Brilliant.

  • Mr0303

    Pointing to biological realities has nothing to do with feelings, cupcake.

    I’m perfectly aware of what I’m saying. Your feels about it are irrelevant.

    I did prove it.

    I don’t have to prove that those studies are the flawed ones. The work I pointed to showed how fickle psychology actually is.

  • Ckarasu

    Bad logic, man. Insults are fun.

    Yeah, Canada. A place that doesn’t have quite the same assumption of free speech as the states do. Context.

    No, it just means that you’re tired of people identifying you wrong. Perhaps they do it spitefully to them.

  • Ckarasu

    Already debunked that, cupcake. If they’re satisfied then it’s enough.

    Irrelevant.

    Nope.

    And the studies are currently accepted. Hurray.

  • Mr0303

    Just point out the obvious lashing out you are performing.

    It being Canada doesn’t change in any way the fact that a group of trans individuals wanted and managed to push this through, but hey let’s ignore relevant examples because they don’t fit the narrative.

    I don’t care how tired they are. Infringing on other people’s freedom, because you demand recognition is not an example of self acceptance.

  • Mr0303

    No you didn’t. You asserted that.

    “And the studies are currently accepted. Hurray.” – you do realise that this is not a good thing, right?

  • Ckarasu

    Irrelevant.

    Sure, but the culture of Canada had an influence in these feelings and the movement. It’s still rooted in the feelings of not wanting to be discriminated against(no group wants to be).

    It comes with it, in a way. They recognize themselves as a group and like any do no want to be discriminated against.

  • Ckarasu

    And the assertion is true. Your idea of biology isn’t relevant to the discussion.

    Sure it is. At least for now. Science will march on, though.

  • Mr0303

    “And the assertion is true.” – the most ironic statement ever.

    It’s not my idea of biology that’s relevant, but rather biology itself.

  • Charles

    haha i love video games!

  • Ckarasu

    And yet it is true. If it is about self satisfaction then your input is irrelevant. And it is.

    Your idea, yes.

  • Mr0303

    Irrelevant, but quite funny.

    Excuses, excuses. The trans lobby did demand for those changes explicitly stating that to not use one’s preferred pronoun is to deny them their identity.

    Gingers don’t want to be discriminated against, but I don’t see them lobbying for a ban on jokes against them.

  • Ckarasu

    Yeah, because they felt it was discriminatory.

    I wouldn’t be too hasty declaring that. It can actually happen.

  • Mr0303

    No, it is not. Hey, this is surprisingly easy. I see why you take this route to justify your positions.

    As I pointed out before it is not only about self satisfaction, but societal approval as well.

  • Mr0303

    So it’s feels over reals from the trans community. Who would’ve guessed?

    It hasn’t happened yet, so the point stands.

  • Ckarasu

    Sure it is.

    Well, that comes later. Again, every group seeks this. But it is not core to their identity.

  • Mr0303

    “But it is not core to their identity.” – apparently it is to the trans lobby, who explicitly stated that somebody not using their preferred pronouns is denying them their identity.

  • Jettythesunfish

    Um…are you absolutely sure? May want to recheck your sources.

  • Mr0303

    Yup. 100%.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/07/28/the-w-h-o-says-being-transgender-is-a-mental-illness-but-thats-about-to-change/?utm_term=.da8c4e5d634f

    “The DSM-5 changed the listing of transgender to “gender dysphoria,” in 2013 (though it remains classified as a mental illness today).”

    You’re welcome.

  • Jettythesunfish

    “A condition is designated as a mental illness when the very fact that
    you have it causes distress and dysfunction, said Geoffrey Reed, a
    professor of psychology at the National Autonomous University of Mexico,
    a consultant on ICD-11 and co-author of the study. The study argues
    that this is not the case with transgender identity.”

  • Mr0303

    The study may argue that, but officially the DSP5 still classifies gender dysphoria as a mental illness.

  • Ckarasu

    Not really.

    Not really, again. It’s a rather poor example to begin with.

  • Ckarasu

    “You don’t exist” is a pretty pressing attitude to circumvent.

  • Jettythesunfish

    Ooookay, so if you use the aforementioned classification for what makes a mental illness and apply that to gender dysphoria somehow, how would that apply to transgenderism?

  • Ckarasu

    It doesn’t, but he will argue it does. Transgenders were taken out of the DSM because it’s not an illness on its own.

  • VLOCKUP

    “to be fair, japan is very backwards in the orientation and gender equality pools.
    Actually
    being willing to pay women to have kids just because more of them are
    choosing to wait or focus on their careers? That’s pretty bizarre.”

    You do know that Japan’s birthrate is miserable that the govt actually wants the women to have kids AND willing to pay them for it?

  • VLOCKUP

    So…. when is the army be filled with Amazonians wannabe?

  • Migi

    Zucker’s treatment protocol came under scrutiny in March 2015 when Cheri DiNovo MPP tabled a private member’s bill that banned on conversion therapies for gender identity. Also one client accused him of verbally abusing children but that statment was later retracted as being false.

    Wel the HE/She didn’t feel all that bothered by the fact children get changed at an early stage, Even making it sound like it was a wonderful thing. Not the mention the excuse they used against parents who wouldn’t conform ”Let him change or let them die” what kinda delusded slogan is that to be used against parents who refuse to go along with the Trans community.

    Yeah that’s why the one trans in the Doc said we accepted it so we just need to move along instead of being skeptical.No the Trans community feel confotable now with the amount of power they have accquired and they can’t only keep it if they keep the special but normal label, Cause nobody would hire them for big office jobs if that stat were to change to mentaly ill.

    Hint: He wasn’t against Trans people he was against using children as pawns when they can’t even decide for themselves what they wanna be. That’s why he suggested going with therapy first but instead the Trans community feels these children need to change right away, Or else they might kill themselves in the future excuse regardless of the fact that Trans people even kill themselves after transition. Also if a child is confused about what he is meant to be wouldn’t it be normal to do therapy first instead of total transformation? like Zucker stated most eventually just realize they were just Gay or Bi and that Gender wasn’t an issue.

  • Ckarasu

    Kinda missed the part in the show where the trans community flat out said transitioning in childhood was a no-no, huh? Because they did say that.

  • Migi

    you do realize when parents ask for help their main options are ”Let him change or let him die” as an excuse to just let him cahnge and not question the Trans gender norm.

  • Ckarasu

    Uh, no. Children get counseling to help deal with their gender issues. The issue with Zucker was that he was guiding them away from what they identified as, which is a no-no. It’s a biased approach.

  • Migi

    It is not bias to have children accept their gender instead of letting the child decide for themselves at such an early age. And Counseling is kinda a garbage term for letting them decide for themselves cause it won’t question their decision, Its the simple approach of listen to the child and eventually still let him decide for himself.

    Also what would you define as guiding them away from their identity? considering children can’t make much of an infomed opinion on any adult topics or else a child would be allowed to do everything an adult could and does.

  • Ckarasu

    Yeah, it is. Because it’s steering then towards a goal rather than letting them naturally get to one. It was wrong of him to do.

    He was telling them to identify as their natural sex, going by the reports. Instead, ask neutral question and generally try to get to their comfort zone naturally.

  • Mr0303

    Yes, really.

    So you are saying that it has happened then. I’ll need a citation on that.

  • Mr0303

    It’s not “you don’t exist”, it’s “I don’t have to accept your delusion as reality and I don’t have to call you xir”.

  • Ckarasu

    Not really. Again.

    No, the point was poor. That said, it’s actually still kinda happened. You can be fired from a job if you make ginger jokes and they find it offensive. They didn’t really need to lobby to get that done.

  • Mr0303

    They are the same in the cases of the people who have it and the people who don’t and still want to be trans are even bigger lunatics.

  • Ckarasu

    It is “You don’t exist”. Your opinion on what delusion means does not line up with the medical definition.

  • Mr0303

    Do you know what a citation is? I asked you to provide one. Also it is one thing to break company policy and a completely different to require it by law.

  • Mr0303

    No it isn’t. I know you like to run back to definitions, but this is a simple opinion that one can hold and shouldn’t be prevented from holding. I guess the word delusion is somehow offensive to you, so I’ll rework the example. There is a large difference between “You don’t exist” and “I don’t have to accept your lifestyle choices and call you xir”. Nobody is saying that the lunatic who calls himself Napoleon doesn’t exist, but they don’t have to believe that he’s fought at Waterloo and call him Mr. Bonaparte.

  • Ckarasu

    Do you know what a waste of time is? Because you sure like trying to waste mine. I don’t need to cite the fact that comparing ginger, a hair color, to transgenders is dumb. I can just point it out.

  • Ckarasu

    Oh opinion. Irrelevant then. Everyone has an opinion. Whoopty doo.

  • Mr0303

    No, you need to cite when have gingers lobbied to ban jokes against them since you argued that is has happened. To quote you directly “That said, it’s actually still kinda happened.”. So, please. Do show when this “kinda happened”.

  • Migi

    There is nothing wrong with steering children towards accepting their real gender, This isn’t some game about ”simon says” the Child brain capacity isn’t even fully developed to a point where they can make critical decision, hench they should leave it up to the parents.

    He was telling them to identify as their natrual sex because that’s what they are, Like i said befor you can’t actually change sex you can only distort it.
    A children is stubborn and selfish and they always want what it feels even things that are bad for him so you can’t expect a child to know what it wants. Thank to todays media they are glorifying it like its something special and that could influence a childs decision eventually.

    indoctrination always starts at a young age cause a child is more malleable so the reason those kids are influenced towards their decision is social contructs made by adults like the Trans community. I believe there needs to be more conclusive and unbias studies but sadly the Trans community couldn’t handle it if it turns out that they aren’t special and it is just a mental issue.

  • Mr0303

    It is quite relevant when it comes to the law and to people pushing to make it illegal. I clearly showed the difference between the two opinions. If transgenders didn’t care about societal opinions they wouldn’t be making those pushes.

  • Ckarasu

    Not really, as you have no power yet. Will be once you do. But it’s still not relevant here. In the matter of opinions, there are no important fallacies. You can believe whatever you want. That simple.

  • Ckarasu

    There is, because it can cause later issues. He got fired for that, rightfully. It’s similar to the practice of “praying the gay away”. It’s retarded.

  • Ckarasu

    No, I said it “kinda” happened without the need for lobbying. Kinda is a magical word for you it seems.

  • Mr0303

    What are you talking about? Me having power or not is absolutely irrelevant to the discussion.

    “You can believe whatever you want.” – not in Canada as I’ve showed before.

  • Mr0303

    So “kinda” is a weasel word you used to avoid admitting that it didn’t happen. Good to know.

  • Ckarasu

    Kinda is a word you clearly kinda don’t like. Great.

  • Mr0303

    I don’t mind it at all. I’m just pointing out your dishonesty.

  • Ckarasu

    Don’t much care for Canada, but you are wrong. You can still believe what you want there. You just can’t say so. Perhaps when we have actual thought police that might be a point, but that’s unlikely to happen(in our lifetime at least).

  • Mr0303

    Yes, yes. I know that you don’t care for Canada, but it is a relevant example whether you want to admit it or not.

    You do have a thought police. You can go to jail for not using someone’s made up pronoun. The inability to say it is part of the thought policing.

  • Ckarasu

    You can go to jail in Canada for racial slurs, too. The bill seems like an amendment to an already existing law. So barely anything changed. Good to know.

  • Ckarasu

    Well, what I said was true. It kinda happened. Accept it.

  • Mr0303

    No, it wasn’t true. You didn’t even showed that it kinda happened. I asked for a citation and you refused to provide one. Anything submitted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

  • Mr0303

    Yes, and this amendment is wrong. Equating racial slurs to refusing to call somebody xir is lunacy. I’d say that the change is quite big. The existing law is preventing you to say something, while the amendment is forcing you to do so.

  • Ckarasu

    Not really, no. It’s barely an adjustment for one. Even if you don’t like it, the change is minor. It’s a dumb approach but the battle was lost long ago.

  • Migi

    There could also be said that Changing them early cause cause damage long term like in the Doc showed for that TRans woman that turned into a man but regretted it. suicide is even high for people that do change so it doesn’t really solve that problem.

    ”Praying the Gay away” is nonsense cause that is just their sexual preference and you stay the same gender. It also comes at a later stage of a persons life even these people feel confused when they are young but they don’t need any major changes. Even zucker said most children that first said they were Trans just turned out to be gay or bi meaning the child couldn’t make an informed opinion on what they really wanted to be.

  • Ckarasu

    Anti harassment/discrimination policies are very broad. And up to the employer to enforce. I can be fired for making fun of someone’s age at my work, technically speaking. Hair color would fall under these policies as well. Kinda happened yeah.

    Technically being true is still true. Moan about that all you want. Don’t care.

  • Ckarasu

    And yet it still happened. Therapy is complex, and Zucker was an idiot for trying to insert his beliefs into the process.

  • Migi

    The whole argument your making is based on what a child feels while that is irrelevant when a child needs to make such a big decision. Also, It wasn’t his believes he was trying to enforce it is scientific fact and a fact of nature that those kids are their natrual sex and not the opposite. Hench the brain scans showing that there are no male or female brains.

  • Ckarasu

    You don’t have them make that decision as a child. You counsel them until they’re old enough to decide properly.

  • Mr0303

    The “minor” bit is your own lame opinion. The change is quite relevant to the discussion no matter how much you try to minimise it.

  • Ckarasu

    It’s barely a thing to adjust to, no matter how stupid it is.

  • Mr0303

    Citation needed. Give a single example of somebody being fired for cracking a ginger joke. Even written policy against those specifically would do. I pretty much know that asking you for evidence is pointless, but still.

    But it is not true since you haven’t proven it. Asking you for evidence is not moaning, but you seem rather disturbed by this.

  • Mr0303

    Compelled speech is not “barely a thing to adjust to”, but I guess you still have to minimise the serious implications of that, so that your precious narrative doesn’t crumble.

  • Ckarasu

    What narrative? That I’m fine with trans people living how they want? Oh no the horror.

    Bro, we aren’t even free in the USA. Make a terrorist joke and happen to have a gun? Whoops, off to jail for you. “Yeah, I’m totally gonna shoot the place up” is enough to land you in the slammer for at least a night, as per a poor schmuck I know. Only reason he was released was because he didn’t have any weapons of his own, if I recall. Terrible.

  • Ckarasu

    You can be wr

  • Ckarasu

    Uh whoops. Anyway, don’t need to. The policies allow for it due to how vague they are.

  • Ckarasu

    Also hilarious. Let’s not forget the “citation needed” for both APAs disagreeing with you.

  • Mr0303

    The bollocks about the self acceptance Living how they want is one thing. Forcing others to accept it is a completely separate issue.

  • Ckarasu

    Live with it. I really am not concerned with how you adapt to this.

  • Mr0303

    Is this some modern slang? Is your citation invisible?

  • Mr0303

    You refused to provide evidence again. Imagine my shock.

  • Mr0303

    They were not both disagreeing with me, but whatever. You provided evidence for that, but somehow asking to back up your statement is an issue.

  • Mr0303

    And I don’t particularly care about your support for compelled speech.

  • Ckarasu

    Of course they did. Literally said that trans are real and not an illness.

  • Ckarasu

    Mobile issues. Fat fingered the done button.

  • Ckarasu

    Oh, misrepresentation. I literally clearly said forces speech is stupid, dumdum.

  • Mr0303

    You do have lots of issues it seems.

  • Ckarasu

    Uh huh.

  • Mr0303

    And yet you make excuses for it, since you are saying that being opposed to it is discrimination against the trans.

  • Mr0303

    I claimed that gender dysphoria is a mental illness and they agreed that transexuals do have that. I didn’t know about the other made up group of people who are trans but don’t have dysphoria – the fashion victims if you will.

  • Ckarasu

    Are you hard of sight? I don’t think anyone should be forced to use preferred pronouns. At worst, you’re a jerk for not doing it. Not a big deal.

  • Ckarasu

    In both their words “not all transgenders have dysphoria”. Both agree to this. And consider transgenders who do not have dysphoria as real.

  • Mr0303

    And yet you defended it and consistently tried to minimise the issue. Putting this into law is a very big deal and positive proof of the mentality of the trans community.

  • Mr0303

    Sure. Thanks to the citation you’ve provided I’ve altered my opinion. This is how evidence works.

  • Ckarasu

    It’s proof of #NotAll of their mindsets. And I’m not arguing it be law. I don’t want us to be like Canada in that way, and it’s unlikely to happen. Way too much opposition. Any attempts to do so at the state level would be struck down in courts, even.

  • Ckarasu

    Congrats.

  • Mr0303

    “It’s proof of #NotAll of their mindsets.” – Yeah, just the majority.

  • Ckarasu

    Nah, neither of us can prove/disprove that. I’m satisfied with referring to them as a bunch of idiots, though.

  • Mr0303

    Oh, but I can. This was pushed by representatives of the trans community and there was no backlash against it by trans people.

    “I’m satisfied with referring to them as a bunch of idiots, though.” – that’s awfully transphobic of you.

  • Ckarasu

    Backlash doesn’t need to exist even if there’s opposition. You have to prove a majority and it’s just not happening. Silent majorities exist and make such arguments muddy.

    Nah, it’s not. Just like calling a black/Hispanic/gay an idiot isn’t discriminatory. Just calling someone an idiot.

  • Mr0303

    By that logic most of the gays could be against gay marriage. Also the silent majority is completely irrelevant in this case. The are represented by a majority of people who are pushing for this and a minority who are against it. This speaks quite well about the whole population if we use the ones who are actually talking as a sample.

    But by doing that you are denying their identity. Opposing compelled speech says that they don’t exist in the heads of the trans.

  • Ckarasu

    Lobby groups aren’t that large bud. And I want numbers from you if you’re gonna make a claim.

    No it doesn’t.

  • Migi

    I take it your concept of counseling is just asking how he feels and not interjecting any questions that might confront them with the fact that they can’t be a woman if they are a man and vica versa.

  • Mr0303

    So I have to provide numbers when you repeatedly refuse to back up your own statements, huh?

    OK, I’ll provide numbers. Number of trans people opposing this bill in Canada – 1. Numbers supporting it – everybody else.

    It does, if we’re to believe their representatives.

  • Ckarasu

    Can you prove it’s just one? No. Can you prove that most simply aren’t apathetic towards it? No. Hell, I’d be willing to bet that most assume the “misgender crime” aspect is fake or won’t be enforced. Gonna have to search up court cases to know, but some I’ve seen show that it would take more than misgendering to get you arrested.

    It doesn’t.

  • Ckarasu

    My idea of counseling is the one supported by academia. Zucker’s isn’t.

  • Migi

    There is no actual academia version for Trans other then listening and letting the kid decide there is no country version cause like i said anything that tries something different gets shut down by the Trans community.

    Cause your whole orginization is run by feelings not facts.

  • Ckarasu

    There is a method of counseling approved by the organization Zucker joined. He violated their guidelines. He got the boot.

  • Mr0303

    There’s only one who’s been speaking out in public – if you want to counter my claim to provide your own numbers (but let’s face it – you are not a fan of evidence). Being silent about it is endorsement of the representatives.

    “Hell, I’d be willing to bet that most assume the “misgender crime” aspect is fake or won’t be enforced.” – given the furious public debates this ignorance is not an excuse.

    Let’s assume that the punishment is a fine. You can refuse to pay it and go to jail. This shouldn’t be enforced in the law either way.

  • Ckarasu

    Apathy isn’t endorsement. Silence isn’t either. Simply ducking out is allowed.

    There’s no punishment at the moment. No one has been charged in relation to the amendment as far as I could tell, but there were other cases before it. I’m looking at those. New cases would play out the same.

  • Mr0303

    “Simply ducking out is allowed.” – of course it is allowed. But their silence also means I can judge the entire community by the actions of the representatives.

    No one being charged yet is in no way a justification for this amendment. It simply shouldn’t have passed, because it’s compelled speech.

  • Ckarasu

    I can decide not to. Simple as that. I don’t judge people for not getting involved in politics.

    Sure it shouldn’t have. But you’re probably not getting charged for casually misgendering. People have been acquitted for much worse under the law that was amended. One such case was with David Ahenakew’s rant against the Jewish. He was acquitted because it wasn’t considered bad enough to be hate speech. It’s important to know context before assuming how bad shit will get.

  • Mr0303

    And I decide to do so. Since the entire debate is about their identity I can judge the position of the majority based on that.

    “But you’re probably not getting charged for casually misgendering.” – “probably”. That is if the offended snowflake decides not to press charges.

  • Ckarasu

    Charges would be dropped, based on precedent. We have quite a few dumb laws we don’t enforce, too. Though if your judge is bad then you’ll need to appeal.

  • Mr0303

    And that’s somehow good? Being dragged through court and paying mountains of legal fees because you refused to use compelled speech? No, thanks.

  • Ckarasu

    Generally means that you won’t hit the courts. Of course it’s not good, though. Still, the fear of being charged for simple misgendering is definitely overblown right now. I’d focus on the shit that won’t get dropped.

    Will respond to whatever you reply with once I sleep. Just an FYI for the delay because why not?

  • Mr0303

    I would focus on whatever the hell I want. Your minimisation of the issue doesn’t in any way change that.

  • Feniks

    Its made and written by Japanese people.

  • Jettythesunfish

    Yeah, I’m not following. Just sounds like you’re spouting bigotry towards people whose decisions in life have nothing to do with you.

  • Jettythesunfish

    Exactly, it doesn’t. It shouldn’t. But this guy wants to insist otherwise, so I guess it’s his word against the actual evidence. Seems he’s just following what misguided information actually adheres to what he already thinks. These kinds of people care nothing for actual facts.

  • Mr0303

    Of course you are not following and of course you’d throw the bigotry card again, when there’s nothing bigoted in what I said. Have fun, my SJW friend.

  • Snorlaxation

    i already commented about that in my post. you don’t like to read do you?

  • Snorlaxation

    So… when will you learn proper English?

  • Snorlaxation

    https://www.japantimes.co.jp/community/2016/02/10/voices/japan-birth-rate-beginning-end-just-new-beginning/#.Wjv3lNxieG8

    Considering the overpopulation issue, it doesn’t honestly seem like much of a problem, and too many media outlets paint ‘lower birth rates’ as some kind of critical issue that’ll cause the collapse of nations, but people are just slowing down on the procreating for various logistical reasons.
    I’m willing to concede that there are those that feel this is a good idea because they are genuinely worried about their declining birth rates and lower population once the elderly pass on, but there are definitely those that feel this is their preferred choice for women, as a couple of comment replies have shown.

  • Ckarasu

    Sure thing bud.

  • Jack Thompson

    By your logic they should be dumbing down the games, making them less Japanese, and trying to appeal to a wider audience instead of specializing in their niche.

  • Jack Thompson

    >Comparing sales of a half home console that was recently released to a portable that’s over 5 years old
    Wew lad. Not only is this retarded, the life of a system at this point is gauged by whether or not it gets new games, not hardware sales, since most who would use one already own one.

  • Jettythesunfish

    My bigotry card is well warranted when you’re so adamant on insisting something so inoccuous is a “mental disorder”. You’re the one that wants to consider it as such because you just can’t stand people not conforming to your norms. Bigot.

  • Jettythesunfish

    Also, are you really unaware of the failure in logic to infer that just because you assume gender dysphoria is a mental illness, that must mean transgenderism is too?

  • Mr0303

    So even when presented with factual data about gender dysphoria you still maintain the position that I’m a bigot. Unfortunately for you it will not stick, but by all means keep being triggered by a completely reasonable position.

  • Mr0303

    I didn’t assume it, I positively showed you that it is.

    There is no failure in logic. I explained to you, but you failed to comprehend by your own admission.

  • Hardly anyone support the shitty Vita lad. It has no exclusives and fucking Sony stopped supporting it.

  • Jack Thompson

    Japan paying women to have kids is bizarre? You do know they’re having a low birthrate crisis, right? And hey can’t just important immigrants when citizenship is based on parentage. Not everywhere works like the US.

  • Ace

    Help me… I just got cancer cuz I glanced at the comments section… =(

  • Jettythesunfish

    Nooo, you’re merely misrepresenting the information. You have not presented your case in what makes transgenderism a mental illness at all, especially considering you’ve had the concept of it presented to you.

  • Jettythesunfish

    When you start off spouting that “transgenderism is a mental illness”, yeah, people are going to get the impression that you’re a bigoted cur. Don’t get all insulted when you started the shitstorm yourself. There is nothing reasonable at all about claiming that something is a mental illness when it has been proven not to be.

  • Mr0303

    “Nooo, you’re merely misrepresenting the information.” – I directly quoted the source and provided a citation. There is no way I can misrepresent that.

    Again it’s not my fault you failed to comprehend simple concepts. To quote you “Yeah, I’m not following.”. I can’t be holding your hand and explaining everything until you do.

  • Mr0303

    It’s not “people”, it’s just you. You are incapable of insulting me. I’m just pointing out the SJW tactics you apply – rather than addressing the argument you go for smearing and personal attacks.

    “There is nothing reasonable at all about claiming that something is a mental illness when it has been proven not to be.” – unfortunately for you the data is on my side. I am the only one who provided a citation in this discussion.

  • BFG

    Except that what you said about women being able to meet the same physical requirements is completely false, because the tests in armies forces actually lower those requirements when it comes to women. War isnt pretty too, and throwing women in the field not only endangers the lives of other troops (due of their lack of physical requirements, so they’ll often request help from others), but also makes them perfect targets for carnal desires of the enemy.

    What RichardGristle said about women in politics too. You’re basically letting a sex type that rely more on emotion than logic making the decisions in the country. Look what happens to Sweden, Germany and France for instance.

    A composed family with traditional roles is healthy for the development of children and the future of the country.

    I blame stupid people (men and women) for getting so up in arms about two dudes or two women who just want to have a life and get married, allbecause of stupid religious nonsense.

    Complaining about being stereotyped as a sex freak and then doing your best to show how much of a sex freak they are, is bound to make people not appreciating them.

    That’s how crazy you sound. You’re the same as them

    No this is called having common sense (which is sadly rare these days, but I also think people fear being blacklisted for life if their voice gets heard by the wrong ears especially in Europe), and not just spouting whatever propaganda you got feed by the mainstream media or by education system.

    It’s not like I have anything against women having artistic/artisnal jobs for instance, but high-profile careers such as in politics and military is a big no-no because they dont have the requirements for those fields due of the obvious biological differences.

  • Jettythesunfish

    Yet, in your very citation, there was a quote I pointed out to you that argued against your point altogether.

  • Jettythesunfish

    You’re the one who fails to comprehend simple concepts. You can’t differentiate between what is a mental illness and what isn’t.

  • Snorlaxation

    If you’re going to jump into a comment Chain that’s been going on before you arrived, have the courtesy to read the other posts before adding. I’ve already talked about the low birth rates and how it might be not such a big issue

  • Snorlaxation

    I don’t have the time nor the patience to inform you of how backward, needlessly prejudice, nor actually stupid your comment is, so ill leave it at this:

    I never said women were expected to be capable of the exact same standards as men, though considering how many different types of men (short, tall, buff, lightly toned) enlist, I’m sure there are at least a few women who enlist that are physically stronger than some of the men. Either way, regardless of gender or differences in expectation, the army, navy, air force, etc. all have standards for soldiers in the field, and won’t allow or accept those that can’t handle themselves or assist others.

    As for children, it’s already been proven that kids raised by average middle class homosexual parents suffer no dips in intellect, safety, or care than kids with straight parents. There have even been studies shown that gay couples appreciate and raise and treat their children better due to the struggle involved in having kids.

    Assuming your not a dumb troll, yes, you do have issues with women, among many other problems. I hope you do some real research and realize how wrong you are, or at least get some good meds.

  • Jack Thompson

    They aren’t worried about declining population due to dying elderly. They don’t have enough young working people paying taxes into the system to support their current programs and provide for the living elderly.

  • Snorlaxation

    That is one issue, though not exactly crippling, but one that isn’t going to be an issue for long since they’d have to wait how many years for the newly born to be old enough to legally work? And the older population is going to pass away in the meantime. It’s A SLOW but noticeable problem, but one that’s not gonna cause the collapse of Japan’s economy.

  • Mr0303

    And yet the quote you provided doesn’t disprove the point as I said above.

  • Mr0303

    Nope. I’ve made my case clear. You are the one not following by your own admission. To quote you again – “Yeah, I’m not following.”.

  • Jettythesunfish

    It does when it clearly defines what makes a mental illness.

  • Jettythesunfish

    Whatever. Continue your willful ignorance and irrational hatred. No skin off my ass.

  • Mr0303

    Do you even read what you quote? It doesn’t do that at all.

  • Mr0303

    I haven’t exhibited any ignorance nor hatred in my posts. This is entirely your invention due to you being triggered for some unknown reason.

  • Jettythesunfish

    Except the evidence goes against your claim that transgendered people are mentally ill. So it could be nothing else but your hatred of them.

  • Jettythesunfish

    We’ve been through this before. If you say that gender dysphoria is a mental illness entailing that the person suffering is under distress, would that still apply to them after the transition?

  • Mr0303

    I haven’t ignored any evidence and addressed all of it.

    “So it could be nothing else but your hatred of them.” – that again is your own weak interpretation. Calling somebody mentally ill doesn’t mean I hate them. I personally have a compassion for the mentally ill people. If you have a problem with them that’s entirely on you.

  • Mr0303

    Yes it would. There is no way to fully transition, so the condition remains the same.

  • Jettythesunfish

    I’m going to assume you’ve never met a transgendered person.

  • Jettythesunfish

    So do I. However, “transgendered” isn’t synonymous with “mentally ill”. Unlike you, probably, I know transgendered people and they do well for themselves.

  • Mr0303

    You are free to assume that, but you’d be wrong.

  • Mr0303

    “However, “transgendered” isn’t synonymous with “mentally ill”.” – I never stated otherwise. There are many different types of mental illnesses.

    “Unlike you, probably, I know transgendered people and they do well for themselves.” – some more baseless assumptions on your part, but I guess you have nothing else to say.

  • Jettythesunfish

    Well, if you actually KNEW some transgendered folk, you wouldn’t be going out of your way to claim that they’re mentally ill. So no, it’s not a baseless assumption, it’s an assumption based on how you’d been acting throughout this whole thread from your very first inane, ignorant comment.

  • Jettythesunfish

    Not from how you’ve been talking, I wouldn’t.

  • Mr0303

    And as I stated before your assumption is absolutely wrong. I know (no need for capitals) transgendered people. It absolutely was a baseless assumption – you are simply unwilling to accept a different point of view.

  • Mr0303

    You absolutely are wrong since I’ve met transgendered people.

  • Jettythesunfish

    Annnnd you consider them to be mentally ill.

  • Jettythesunfish

    Right, right. You sound like the people who say racist things then try to brush it off by claiming you’re friends with a black person.

  • Mr0303

    Yes.

  • Mr0303

    False equivalence, honey. I know you desperately want to demonise me in some way, but there is nothing hateful or prejudicial about what I say.

  • Jettythesunfish

    First, don’t call me honey. Second, I desperately want to demonize you? Sorry, your own damned words put you out there. You don’t say shit like this and then whine when you get backlash.

  • Jettythesunfish

    For what actual reason? Now I have to ask if you’ve ever met a mentally ill person. I mean didn’t we already go over the concept of the afflicted person being in distress of some sort?

  • Mr0303

    I’ll call you whatever I want, honey. Yes, you do desperately want to slap a label on me and I’d hardly call you being triggered a backlash.

  • Mr0303

    Because they are. I’ve met a mentally ill person – I already told you that I know trans people.

  • It’s disgusting.

    Children, at their young age, are the most vulnerable to being influenced and indoctrinated, because they do not have the capability to inform themselves nor make informed decisions.

    Therefore, the Leftist SJW parasites in most of the Western and European government takes advantage of this by setting education guidelines to teach children that cutting off their dicks or sticking their dicks into other men when they become adults is the greatest thing ever. You know, indoctrinate them while they’re young and vulnerable and cannot decide for themselves.

    These people, the teachers who teach it, and anyone who defends these ideas and practices, should be taken outside and f*cking shot.

  • Jettythesunfish

    *facepalm* So you’ve learned nothing from this entire engagement. At all.

  • Jettythesunfish

    I repeat. Your own damn words demonize you.

  • Mr0303

    You didn’t provide anything to learn from. Just some pathetic personal attacks.

  • Mr0303

    No, they don’t. You being triggered is entirely your problem, honey.

  • Jettythesunfish

    Except…you know, the fact that one suffering from mental illness has to be in some manner of distress. So do explain the type of distress a transgendered person would go through to consider it a mental illness.

  • Jettythesunfish

    Blind and foolish.

  • Mr0303

    Nice to meet you.

  • Mr0303

    I would consider cutting off your own genitals as distress.

  • Jettythesunfish

    You do realize it’s a surgical procedure, right?

  • Jettythesunfish

    Nice to meet you, Mr. Blind-and-Foolish? How does it feel living in your misguided and hateful world?

  • Mr0303

    Yes. So your only point of contention is that somebody else is doing the cutting on your behalf? Alrighty then.

  • Mr0303

    It took you a day to come up with this lame response? You have to step up your game, honey. The only hateful one here is you resorting to personal attacks.

  • Jettythesunfish

    Oh, get over yourself.

  • Jettythesunfish

    What exactly is your point…?

  • Mr0303

    Having trouble understanding again, huh?

  • Mr0303

    A lame predictable response that took you another day to compose. At this point it’s pretty sad. See you tomorrow for you next lame gem.

  • Jettythesunfish

    Maybe it’s because I’m not hanging around this site 24/7 waiting to respond to you. Did you ever think about that? Oh, wait, you never began thinking in the first damned place. GET OVER YOURSELF.

  • Jettythesunfish

    No, seems you don’t understand. Allow me to lay out your logic:

    >Someone is unhappy with their gender (using “unhappy” loosely)
    >They get a sex change operation
    >???
    >They’re mentally ill

    How do you get from one to the other?

  • Mr0303

    Nope, I’m pretty sure your mental deficiency is the reason behind your slow responses. It takes seconds for normal people. I’m not special – you’re just slow.

  • Mr0303

    Yes, getting a sex change operation because you are unhappy is clear indication that you are not right in the head. It’s pretty obvious. You not accepting that is entirely your problem, honey.

  • Jettythesunfish

    Wow, you are completely lacking in empathy. How disgusting.

  • Jettythesunfish

    Sure, whatever helps you feel big.

  • Mr0303

    Empathy has nothing to do with this. Also your disgust is completely irrelevant, honey.

  • Mr0303

    Well, at lease you admit your own deficiencies. You would do well to work on them, honey.

  • Jettythesunfish

    You know, ironically missing the point doesn’t make you clever.

  • Jettythesunfish

    Empathy as everything to do with it. If you can’t understand a person’s woe, then you’re the one who has something wrong with their brain.

  • Mr0303

    No, but it’s a great way of mocking you, honey.

  • Mr0303

    No, I could be realistic about someone’s behaviour. By the same logic you completely lack empathy by not agreeing with my way of thinking or my actions. This moral grandstanding you are trying to impose is completely useless in discussions about these cosmetic surgeries.

  • Jettythesunfish

    “By the same logic you completely lack empathy by not agreeing with my way of thinking or my actions.”

    …What? No seriously, what? Do you know what empathy is?

  • Jettythesunfish

    Again, whatever makes you feel big. I’m not even hurt in the slightest.

  • Mr0303

    On the contrary – you are very butthurt, honey.

  • Mr0303

    Yes, I do. Why don’t you empathise with me and agree with my actions 100%? Obviously because you are bigoted. Tsk, tsk!

  • Jettythesunfish

    Your actions entailing being a dick?

  • Jettythesunfish

    Whatever makes you feel big.

  • Mr0303

    Absolutely.

  • Mr0303

    Your butthurt doesn’t make me feel big, honey, but it is amusing to watch.

  • Jettythesunfish

    Annnnd how am I supposed to be empathetic to that?

  • Jettythesunfish

    Not even butthurt.

  • Mr0303

    Sureee…

  • Mr0303

    So you can’t be empathetic to my situation? How disgusting!

  • Jettythesunfish

    What situation? You’re being an ass. No one’s empathetic to assholes.

  • Mr0303

    How am I being an ass? I just expressed a perfectly valid opinion. If anything you are the one resorting to name calling, which in case you don’t know isn’t very nice.

  • Jettythesunfish

    Valid? What’s normal about claiming that someone is mentally ill simply for being different?

  • Mr0303

    No, I’m calling people who have mental illness mentally ill. Everybody is different, but some behaviour is not normal – that includes thinking that you are something you really aren’t.

  • Jettythesunfish

    And there goes your lack of empathy. You don’t understand, ergo something must be wrong with them. How shallow and childish.

  • Mr0303

    I do understand biology and that’s all that matters in this case. Not your pretence of “empathy”. The only one applying childish arguments here is you – “You just don’t understand, man!”. Right.

  • Jettythesunfish

    Because you *don’t* understand, period. Using the argument of “they’re different, so they must be mentally messed up” is more childish than anything, bucko.

  • Mr0303

    Funny thing – I never used that argument – that is entirely your strawman, because it’s too uncomfortable for you to engage honestly with what I said. Also saying “period” doesn’t make your position any more valid, honey.

  • Jettythesunfish

    You practically used that argument when you correlated “transsexual” with “mentally ill”. The implication is blatant. Not sure what’s honest about you saying such a thing when the evidence goes against everything you’re talking about.

  • Mr0303

    No, I didn’t “practically use” that argument, so please stop being dishonest. Being a transexual doesn’t simply mean that you are different. It means that you believe that you are something you are not, which in turn correlates to having mental issues. It’s the same when you believe you are an animal, somebody long dead or even a fictional character. These people are mentally ill. Not quotation marks needed.

    What evidence goes against what I said? Gender dysphoria is a mental illness and deciding to cut off your genitals because of a delusion isn’t exactly stable minded behaviour.

  • Jettythesunfish

    So now you’re equating being transsexual with being delusional? Those are two different things.

    And the evidence I mean is that excerpt I brought to your attention that states that one suffering from a mental illness is under some sort of distress. That, in no way, is relevant to a transgendered person. They are merely dissatisfied or do not well comfortable as their biological gender. They are still themselves, but are merely living a new gender identity. That’s not a delusion. A delusion would be thinking that you’re Abraham Lincoln or something.

  • Mr0303

    “And the evidence I mean is that excerpt I brought to your attention that
    states that one suffering from a mental illness is under some sort of
    distress.” – and that was just a study done by a single team of researchers. It doesn’t in any way invalidate anything I said.

    “They are merely dissatisfied or do not well comfortable as their biological gender.” – and thus the mental issues. It is absolutely a delusion thinking that you should be the opposite sex. It is just as plausible as bing Honest Abe or a cat. In the same manner I may think that I want to the 3 meters high and I’m dissatisfied or don’t feel comfortable in my current height. This doesn’t change the fact that I’m shorter and thinking anything else is a delusion.