Bethesda: Wolfenstein II is Not Meant to Comment on Modern Politics

The current political landscape both within and outside the gaming industry has basically devolved into a torturous vacuum. Regardless of your political stance, mostly everyone will agree with me that it’s a good thing video games typically don’t touch contemporary politics. Now, a recent marketing campaign via Bethesda for their upcoming Wolfenstein II: The New Colossus title has stirred the pot, and once again, the subject is nazis.

The company ran a promotional video for the game that came with a caption: “Make America Nazi-Free Again. #NoMoreNazis #Wolf2.”

The game is set in an alternate history world in which the Allies failed, the Nazis conquered the world – even the American heartland. The goal in the game is to lead the rebellion against the Nazis as protagonist BJ Blazkowicz, and of course, kill lots of nazis.

Following the campaign, lots of detractors from both sides of the political spectrum either commended the company for condemning modern-day political movements like the Alt-Right, while others said the seemingly on-the-nose commentary on modern politics was stupid and out of place in the gaming industry. Endless debate and hysteria ensued, so naturally Bethesda had to clarify what they meant in their promo.

VP of PR and marketing at Bethesda, Pete Hines, said that Bethesda is “certainly aware of current events in America and how they relate to some of the themes in Wolfenstein II.” However, he noted that “Bethesda doesn’t develop games to make specific statements or incite political discussions. We make games that we think are fun, meaningful, and immersive for a mature audience.”

He went on to point out that the series has been a “decidedly anti-Nazi series since the first release more than 20 years ago.” He continued: “We aren’t going to shy away from what the game is about. We don’t feel it’s a reach for us to say Nazis are bad and un-American, and we’re not worried about being on the right side of history here.”

When it comes to the connection between modern day nazis and the ones you’re killing in the game, Hines said “none of us expected that the game would be seen as a comment on current issues, but here we are.” He also said that “it’s pure coincidence that Nazis are marching in the streets of America this year. And it’s disturbing that the game can be considered a controversial political statement at all.”

Finally, when naturally asked if the game is against nazis, Hines pointed out the obvious: “This is what our game is about,” he said. “It’s what this franchise has always been about. We aren’t afraid to embrace what BJ stands for and what Wolfenstein represents. When it comes to Nazis, you can put us down in the ‘against’ column.”

Bethesda’s comments echo the response from Nintendo when they got caught up in another controversy regarding Mario donning traditional Mexican garb. At the time, Nintendo COO and president Reggie Fils-Aimé said ““Making political statements are for other people to do. We want people to smile and have fun when they play our games.”

Wolfenstein II: The New Colossus is launching first across PC, PlayStation 4, and Xbox One on October 27th and sometime next year for the Nintendo Switch.

Brandon Orselli

About

Big Papa Overlord at Niche Gamer. Italian. Dad. Outlaw fighting for a better game industry. I also write about music, food, & beer. Also an IT guy.

  • Madbrainbox

    Game looks fun.That’s all that matter.

  • RandomDev

    Too late Bethesda, you can’t back pedal on this.

  • Gigaknight

    “it’s pure coincidence that Nazis are marching in the streets of America this year.”

    “Nazis”. Care to elaborate, Bethesda? Specificity is important, you know.

  • Yoral

    If the game is good then fine, but, I don’t like the idea that the communists are somehow the good guys at all. Also “Make America nazi free again” comes off as obviously slanted against a certain kind of politics (in a dishonest way: nazi=/=maga) which is fine, if you want to do that for your game then do so. Claiming otherwise later on and backpedaling is hypocrisy though.

  • InkViper

    If the game was supposed to be relevant to today’s US politics, you wouldn’t just be shooting Nazis but Communists as well!

  • Ninjagai

    Of course, they seem to confuse conservatives with nazis.

  • Envy-Noson

    That’s what we said when SJWs started changing stuff, now we’re here.

  • Madbrainbox

    Where exactly?This has been a great year for videogames and it’s not over yet.

  • Mechonis

    “We aren’t making a political comment but we got to make that jab about nazis in the streets”

  • Envy-Noson

    2014 and 2016 weren’t the best of years for gaming. Don’t jinx anything.

  • Gustavo Hawke

    “nazis are marching this year”
    I’m not american, but, this thing to relate trump supportes with neo-nazis is like “everyone I disagree is Hitler”.
    On the right wing size, we have a half dozen stupid neo nazis in streets, but, in the left wing size we have a lot of antifas and black live matters guys breaking public and private property, Both Neo-nazis and antifas act with violence, but right wing is kicked everyday by the media, and I don’t like Donald Trump, but media and artists devote everyday to create rage on this guy.

  • Arenegeth

    I don’t know if the game it self makes any current political statements, but whoever had the job of handling the marketing definitely did. And it wasn’t neutral, in an increasingly polarized and over-politicized environment.

    Is there some statistic out there that says republicans in the US, or generally right leaning people everywhere don’t buy games or something?

    Because conflating Nazis with 50% (more or less depending) of your potential customer base, seems pretty stupid to me.

  • Shinobu

    Why can’t we have a Fallout game in this engine?

  • Mr0303

    They deliberately used variations of two very popular political hashtags and didn’t expect to be controversial or a comment on current issues? Come on.

    This game has quite a few red flags that it could be a propaganda piece, which is a shame since I really enjoyed the previous one. Even ignoring all that they announced a season pass way before release, so I’ll be at waiting for the complete game.

  • Zaelle

    Funny they don’t actually address the matter at hand; the marketing lingo in their own tweets WAS meant to make a specific statement. We all know it was a take on the president’s slogan and it’s BS to pretend it’s all just some crazy coincidence. Either get behind it completely or admit you goofed. Pick one. This attempt at fence sitting just so you can try to siphon money from both sides shows a lack of integrity.

    It’s insulting to our intelligence when you try to pretend and, at least in my case, just lowers my opinion of you even more.

  • buddyluv324

    Everyone and everything that isn’t considered full progressive left wing is a Nazi. Your friends, family, loved ones, even a house pet is considered a follower if Hitler

  • Ene1Virus

    Frankly, I think they actually handled things quite well. It’s going to interesting to see how the game turns out also ;)

  • Mr0303
  • Hale Hortler

    I guess their plan is to go after that fps loving young black female audience:

    https://imgoat.com/uploads/0c7c76d30b/49091.png

    Or i dunno their marketing department is run by a bunch of feckless neo marxists.

  • Mr0303

    Realistically, BJ would have more in common with Trump than Antifa, but then again this game is made in Sweden.

  • Michael Richardson

    They had to have known that this marketing tactic would be controversial. I thought that was the point: to stir the pot and gain publicity as a result. Well, mission accomplished! Not sure what the point in trying to damage control is. Nobody who isn’t a kool-aid swilling idiot thought this marketing campaign was any kind of serious commentary on modern America.

  • PaRaLLaXTHeTiCS

    “Making political statements are for other people to do. We want people to smile and have fun when they play our games.”

    Even Nintendo’s comments make me smile.

  • combat

    Richard Spencer and his group?

  • PaRaLLaXTHeTiCS

    Because Bethesda sucks as a dev. Good pub though.

  • InkViper

    that’s what I was implying

  • TheOnceAndFutureKing

    The Nazi stuff is old now, Communists have a far larger kill count and they’re hardly ever villains in games, I think it would be more fresh to have a game where you fight your way out of a gulag and blast through a world ruled by Stalin.

    I’m not sure what the devs were thinking when they made this, but the problem is that a lot of SJWs will champion this game as a political statement in their favor.

  • No_Good_Names_Ever
  • Mr0303

    Yes, I know, but I don’t think that this will be the case.

  • TheOnceAndFutureKing

    Until NoA censors shit.

  • PaRaLLaXTHeTiCS

    Oh snap!

  • PaRaLLaXTHeTiCS

    I’d rather they didn’t. It’d just be some bastardized shit. Can’t have any Jewish fingerprints on negative events.

  • TheOnceAndFutureKing

    the goyim would know too much

  • AgentBJ09

    I stopped caring about Wolfenstein when this game was announced; Old Blood was the early hint of sequel milking, and giving BJ the ability to shrug off massive radiation exposure from a nuke was too much BS to swallow.

    Otherwise, Bethesda and MachineGames knew what they were doing with this. If they truly did not mean for it to be political, they would’ve called out the game bloggers and pundits making it political versus be mushy-mouthed about it now.

  • So glad that Glass Ceiling Cunt didn’t win.

  • Zombie_Barioth

    True, however they were referring to the recent protests, not the parody of Trump’s slogan. You know, the one with actual Nazi’s waving Swastikas Trump inadvertently (one would sure hope) called ‘decent people’?

    I doubt the whole anti-Nazi thing was really meant as a comment on that, just a hilariously oblivious marketing campaign based around the overall political climate.

    I don’t think they were counting on people putting two and two together on that and thinking they think Trump is pro-Nazi or anything like that, which I’m sure is happening.

  • Madbrainbox

    True.That’s the way things go.Yet there hasn’t been a SJW gaming apocalypse and in the future the gambling and microtransactions publishers force on their games will be a far bigger concern.

  • He also said that “it’s pure coincidence that Nazis are marching in the
    streets of America this year. And it’s disturbing that the game can be
    considered a controversial political statement at all.”

    Who are the Nazis here, exactly? Because the left has smeared shit all over everyone who doesn’t agree with them, you gotta wonder what Bethesda mean when they say they’re against Nazis. Do they mean Trump supporters, for example?

    Honestly, conflating everyone else to Nazis when they had two of them talk about how political violence is bad says a lot that wasn’t said in this interview. I’m not interested in entertaining their bloated characterizations.

  • Gaspar

    I think it’s fair to say the vast majority of people is ‘against nazis’, that’s not even a worthy thing to say. Of course you’re against nazis!
    It’s quite obvious that the problem some people have with the slogan is because they are tired of being called a nazi just for being anywhere close to right of center.

  • grgspunk

    Bethseda, don’t be ashamed of making Wolfenstein or its marketing as anti-Nazi as you want. We need a way to expose and vet out any anti-gaming right-wingers that infiltrated the videogame market/community with the intention of making it serve as their own political safe space. This especially includes the /pol/tards that piggybacked off of GG, despite not giving two fucks about videogames.

    If they get triggered and expect the devs to exercise “sensitivity” when portraying Nazi villains in a game like this, then it’s perfectly obvious they are no more capable of seperating fiction from reality and therefore can’t be trusted to defend videogaming any more than the SJWs themselves. If they keep bitching and whining about perceived political themes in a game like this, then the red-colored MAGA trucker hat-toting alt-rightists must be driven out of vidya along with their rainbow-colored hipster-haired SJW counterparts.

  • sanic

    “Bethesda doesn’t develop games to make specific statements or incite political discussions. We make games that we think are fun, meaningful, and immersive for a mature audience.”

    Good, the games are about killing nazis thats fine, its the crazies around it that want to make it something else, Still going to wait for a discount and get southpark instead.

  • LaserCatsAreAwesome

    I hate SJWs but don’t you think anti-SJWs are just as bad? Ever notice how SJWs are always complaining about stuff? Well anti-SJWs are always complaining about SJWs so they’re just as bad, those fucking problematic sexist assholes! Wouldn’t you agree?

  • Mr_SP

    I dunno, I would have appreciated someone actually competent and respectable. So, a third party candidate.

  • Mr_SP

    Because id Software and Bethesda are different studios. The Fallout 4/Skyrim engine was an updated version of the Fallout 3/New Vegas engine, and supports modding better than the id Tech engine. And weapon and armor modification, settlements, Creation Kit, etc, etc.

    Also, id Tech 6 wasn’t involved in any games before last years Doom.

    Also also, the engine doesn’t mean that the next Fallout or Skyrim would actually be a good game. You might need a different studio for that. Or a different design philosophy, at least.

  • Hale Hortler

    “the one with actual Nazi’s waving Swastikas Trump inadvertently (one would sure hope) called ‘decent people’?”

    Yeah, that never actually happened. Maybe stop watching CNN?

    It really is quite obvious where they were going with “Make America Nazi-Free Again”.

    The question is: Is the publicity worth potentially pissing off over half of your US audience?

  • GuyGuysonEsquire

    >You fight guys in black-red armor
    >The bad guys gun down everyone who don’t agree with them
    >The bad guys are led by a Clinton look-alike
    >The bad guys are unable to stop white, Christian 50-something war veteran in a wheelchair
    Guys, you had it all wrong – this is an anti-Antifa game./s

  • GuyGuysonEsquire

    Fuck, I just wanna play games, not participate in this bullshit.

  • Hale Hortler

    Human Head Studios might disagree.

  • Zombie_Barioth

    It actually did, his comment just wasn’t aimed at one particular group, hence I said it was inadvertently done.

    Trump simply made a generalized statement, it backfired, and you now have people thinking he’s pro-Nazi.

    Bethesda’s anti-Nazi comments don’t mean they think that, nor does it mean they don’t.

    Its open to interpretation, which is exactly the problem.

  • grgspunk

    Nice copypasta, asswipe.

    That aside, I couldn’t care less about what’s “problematic” or not. All I see are two political tribes filled with dickheads vying for control over videogames on the basis of fighting for “freedom” or as part of some grand “culture war”, all the while being primed and ready to betray and censor games/gamers once they achieve their goals. We saw it happen with right-wingers in the Bush years, we saw it happen with SJWs over the Obama years, and now you right-wing dipshits are just waiting for your turn again now that the Trump years are here.

    You’re not going to keep the deception up forever, pal. Real gamers who couldn’t give two fucks about politics aren’t going to put up with your shit.

  • Hale Hortler

    Even self-described “National Socialist” groups like NSM don’t wave around Swastikas, because waving around Swastika flags is obviously idiotic. The one guy at Charlottesville with the seemingly freshly bought Swastika flag conveniently remains undoxxed by both left and right wingers.

    The only people who interpreted Trump’s comments as “pro-nazi” (at this point I don’t even know what that means anymore tbqh) are people who already bought into the “Trump is literally Hitler” narrative. Trump’s base loves seeing him attack the corporate media. “There were good people on both sides” is a pretty safe statement unless you’re living in clown world.

    As for what Bethesda was thinking, I can really only see two possible explanations:

    Either the plan was to stir up controversy (well done, I guess), or a bunch of activist game devs don’t understand that Neogaf is not representative of their audience. I honestly think there is at least a bit of the latter in there.

  • Kiryu

    How about;make America Commie free again?

  • Zombie_Barioth

    Exactly, but it doesn’t really matter why, the point is the controversy got out of hand. It went farther than Bethesda probably anticipated.

    I mean heck, PCGamer disabled comments on their article because of people either being “pro-Nazi” or trying way too hard to be pro free speech/expression.

    The weird part here is I don’t think its Nazism specifically they’re supporting, its fascism. The two have become synonymous.

    On one side you have people embracing conservative or regressive ideologies, because that’s the ‘cool’ thing now for some reason.

    On the other, you have the anti-PC crowd trying to take a stand and prove how progressive and open-minded they are.

    The latter are the ones who rallied around Trump.

    So both sides are going to have a beef with Bethesda here.

  • Zero Kurapika

    Murdering Nazis is only the moral thing to do.

  • AnarKreig

    I can’t believe people are actually falling for this simple marketing stunt.

  • ProfessorFluffy
  • DrearierSpider

    -“Make America Nazi Free Again”
    -“Not My America”

    Nope, totally not trying to make a modern political statement. Man, I miss the days where I could just turn my brain off and play a game like Wolfenstein as escapism. Now I’d be looking over my shoulder to see if they’re trying to pull a Red Skull and insert messaging about Trump, etc. If a political movement is defined by the fringe crazies, Obama and all of his voters were cop killers or apologists for cop killers.

    https://youtu.be/hqQXmnMr_w8

  • Shattno

    Haha, all the triggered people in the comments make me laugh, never change nichegamer

  • Shattno

    >Implying you know anything about Sweden or the people at MachineGames

  • LaserCatsAreAwesome

    Thanks for assuming my political affiliation based off a fucking joke and going on a rant. If you feel so strongly about this go post about it on KIA.

  • MONAD

    Don’t fall for it. This is obvious propaganda. I told myself I’d never buy another game of theirs after Skyrim Remastered. The infection seems to have spread to them now. Add another company to the boycott list.

  • Smokratez

    look it’s commies pretending nazis exist, to give them a fictional villain to fight to justify their behavior and actions. no one is buying it bud.

  • Squirrel on crack cocaine.

    I agree that the streets are running wild fascists who wear all black, cover their faces, scream hatefilled messages, use violence as a tool and are trying their best to stop free speech.
    I believe they go by the name, Antifa.

  • Mr0303

    No, I’m not implying it, I’m directly saying it. Sweden is an SJW hellhole and Machine Games are based there and have included some progressive themes in the last 2 Wolfenstein games, which in turn leaves me worried for the new one.

  • Where does it say that commies are the good guys? Legitimately curious.

  • David Curry

    Not even center, just right of blue-haired batshit.

  • Shattno

    Clearly you don’t know shit about this country. Come live here for a while and you’ll see that’s it’s great, I’ll buy you a fika. Also, the people at Machine Games are cool, you should meet them, really great guys.

  • Mr0303

    I know enough and I’d rather not live there, thank you. Feminist snow plowing is not something I’m looking forward to.

    Your personal experience with Machine Games doesn’t give me any confidence that the product will not include agenda pushing.

  • Shattno

    Feminist snow plowing… Ridiculous…
    And what agenda are they pushing? That Nazis are bad and should be fought? Because if that’s wrong I don’t want to be right.

  • Mr0303

    “Feminist snow plowing… Ridiculous…” – yep, I agree. It’s quite ridiculous. Just in case you don’t believe this is a thing:

    https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/gender-equal-snow-removal-procedures-left-stockholm-paralyzed

    “And what agenda are they pushing?” – did you somehow miss what the article and the controversy is all about? They used variations of 2 widely popular political hashtags to seemingly take a jab at the Trump administration equating them with the Nazis in the game.

  • Shattno

    Yes, I know what you were referring to, but that article is exaggerated and the entire thing was blown out of proportion. Everyone knows Sthlm shuts down when it snows, and everyone makes fun of them for it. Doesn’t matter what priorities they have when they plow or if they call it feminist or not, it will still be chaos. Anyway, I feel that it is unfair to judge a country based on something like that. Instead you should judge us by our excellent health care, highly ranked universities, low crime rates, favourable business climate, long paid vacations, beautiful nature and of course the fika.

    Ok, so the advertising is sketchy, no argument there, but that’s Bethesda, not Machine Games. And I don’t even think Bethesda is pushing something, I think they just want to stir up attention, a “there is no such thing as bad publicity” kind of thing.

  • Funtime Happysnacks

    Nobody is being subtle about their politics anymore; Creators recently came right out and said Star Trek Discovery was about their Special OC with a boy’s name fighting Klingons meant to represent Trump supporters (with the deliberately similar “Remain Klingon!” slogan)

  • Funtime Happysnacks

    Take a big saw and carve California off of the US coast.

  • Funtime Happysnacks

    remember the six gorillion

  • Funtime Happysnacks

    Shattno, so you’re saying your country is NOT the rape capital of the world?

  • Shattno

    I absolutely do. Only an idiot would believe something like that. Sweden is really safe, not as safe as Japan but safer than the United States for example.
    Do you want a serious discussion about rape or are you just taking cheap shots?

  • Mr0303

    “Doesn’t matter what priorities they have when they plow or if they call it feminist or not, it will still be chaos.” – it absolutely matters why this happened. They made an irrational decision based on a flawed ideology.

    “Anyway, I feel that it is unfair to judge a country based on something like that.” – you “feel” that what happens in the capital is not a fair way to judge a country? Well, tough! In my view it is completely fair and quite a good representation of the attitudes there.

    “Instead you should judge us by our excellent health care, highly ranked
    universities, low crime rates, favourable business climate, long paid
    vacations, beautiful nature and of course the fika.” – are you telling me that I should judge Sweden only based on the positives? I’m afraid that is not how evaluation works. My distaste for Sweden is mainly linked with the embrace of SJW ideology. Feminist foreign policy. Feminist video game ratings. Phone line for “mansplaining”. Unfiltered immigration. Safe spaces for refugees. A request for data detailing the relationship between crime and immigration in Sweden beening blocked by the government. Adding a gender neutral pronoun to the dictionary and then being subsequently used on pre school children.

    Given all that’s mentioned above, I’d much rather stay away from Sweden.

    “Ok, so the advertising is sketchy, no argument there, but that’s Bethesda, not Machine Games.” – the ad was posted on the official Wolfenstein Twitter account so it could be either of them.

    “And I don’t even think Bethesda is pushing something, I think they just
    want to stir up attention, a “there is no such thing as bad publicity”
    kind of thing.” – that is a possibility, but all things considered I’m not willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, especially given some of the trailers for the game.

  • Shattno

    They did not make a irrational decision, and what happens in the capital matters but the county is more than just the capital.
    A lot of the negative you mention has to do with feminism. What is the foreign policy? What feminist game ratings? How does a phone line affect you? Gender neutral pronouns exists in other languages, why can’t we have one?
    Refugees should be safe that’s the point. Trying to find a relationship between immigration and crime might find a correlation but not causality, and it would be immoral not to mention illegal.
    We wouldn’t even have all the immigrants if not a certain country had armed terrorists and bombed countries back to the stone age, destabilising the entire region. But as usual they don’t clean up their mess, and per usual Sweden and Germany are the only countries in the EU that take responsibility. So that’s fucking great.
    But fine, stay away. Ignore all the great things because “Ewww feminists are allowed to exist”, you child.

    Also, I bet if they where anti SJW instead you’d cheer them on, because I bet you have double standards like that.

  • grgspunk

    You’re welcome, dipshit. I’m already aware of the fact that your little copypasta “joke” was ripped steaight from a cartoon depicting a hipster SJW posing as a “normal person” trying to concern troll against anti-SJWs. That cartoon has been used by alt-right assholes to dismiss anyone that isn’t 100% in agreement as an SJW.

    Doesn’t it feel amazing to have the same line of reasoning used to call you alt-right, anti-gaming fuckheads out?

    I know it does to me.

  • Mr0303

    “They did not make a irrational decision” – yes, they did. The results speak for themselves.

    “and what happens in the capital matters but the county is more than just the capital.” – I never claimed that it was, but it is a good indicator of what’s going on in the country as a whole.

    “What is the foreign policy?”

    http://regionalrapport.com/2017/10/05/swedish-feminist-foreign-policy/
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/10/07/swedens-subtly-radical-feminist-foreign-policy-is-causing-a-stir/?utm_term=.4a69610f94a9

    “What feminist game ratings?”

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/alisonvingiano/sweden-video-game-sexist-rating?utm_term=.ac7Z6PMmzN#.rmPXJGV5Yp

    “How does a phone line affect you?” – it doesn’t because I don’t live in Sweden, but mansplaining is a ludicrous sexist term invented by feminist ideologues.

    “Gender neutral pronouns exists in other languages, why can’t we have one?” – you can, but confusing pre school children about their gender is downright evil.

    “Refugees should be safe that’s the point.” – not at the expense of the locals. I was referring to the 55 no go zones created for them.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-09-27/surging-migrant-violence-creating-no-go-zones-across-europe

    “Trying to find a relationship between immigration and crime might find a
    correlation but not causality, and it would be immoral not to mention
    illegal.” – requesting data from the government about these statistics is neither immoral nor illegal and it’s pretty obvious why they don’t want this information to spread.

    “Sweden and Germany are the only countries in the EU that take responsibility.” – so on one hand you claim that another country is responsible for the crisis and on another that Sweden and Germany are the ones dealing with the consequences. Well guess what – you don’t have to let these people into your country, but it is what your government does anyway.

    “But fine, stay away.” – I will, thank you.

    “Ignore all the great things because “Ewww feminists are allowed to exist”, you child.” – I’m not ignoring the good things about your country, but rather pointing out why I don’t particularly like it. My problem is not that feminists are allowed to exist, it’s that they are affecting your laws, culture and policy. I should also let you know that it’s kind of ironic that you call me a child and yet personal insults aren’t a very mature thing to do.

    “Also, I bet if they where anti SJW instead you’d cheer them on, because I bet you have double standards like that.” – you are free to have your own baseless assumptions. For the record I wouldn’t like any hateful ideology taking over a country.

  • Shattno

    I barely know where to start and this discussion is making me sad, so I’ll try to make it breif.
    If Swedish children get confused, how come Finnish children don’t? because Finnsh have gender neutral pronouns.
    The statistics would be illegal under Swedish law, yes. Immoral is of course subjective.
    We don’t have to let them in, but that’s the decent thing to do, that’s how you treat fellow humans. Next time it could be us.
    Feminist here just want women and girls to have the same rights, opportunities and presence in society as men and boys, and I think that’s something to strive for. You don’t have to agree but I will never understand why. Maybe feminists where you come from are different, what do I know.
    Sorry if I insulted you, I’m having a really bad day. (Have you ever tried to normalise a database? It’s fucking hard.)

  • grgspunk

    The Cold War is over, dude. Nobody gives two fucks about commies anymore.

  • Mr0303

    “If Swedish children get confused, how come Finnish children don’t? because Finnsh have gender neutral pronouns. ” – quite a few languages have gender neutral pronouns, but to stop using them for little boys and girls to push this social constructionist agenda is what I have a problem with.

    “The statistics would be illegal under Swedish law, yes.” – citation needed.

    “We don’t have to let them in, but that’s the decent thing to do, that’s how you treat fellow humans. Next time it could be us.” – well, then those problems are caused entirely on your government, which again is part of why I don’t like Sweden. They are letting in dangerous people at the expense of the local population based solely on some wishy-washy moral code.

    “Feminist here just want women and girls to have the same rights,
    opportunities and presence in society as men and boys, and I think
    that’s something to strive for.” – oh, really? What rights or opportunities do men in Sweden have that women don’t? Also define presence – do you think that all companies and jobs should have 50/50 representation?

    “Maybe feminists where you come from are different, what do I know. ” – let’s look at a couple of examples of Swedish feminists shall we?

    https://sputniknews.com/viral/201710061058009812-sweden-feminism-polygamy/
    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/04/06/swedish-feminist-party-leader-men-not-islam-is-the-problem/
    http://www.returnofkings.com/84703/swedish-feminist-loses-her-job-because-of-her-man-hating-facebook-videos
    https://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/government-tyranny/swedish-feminists-on-the-warpath-against-hate/
    Beware this video from a radical Swedish feminist group is quite explicit and can be NSFW.

    Then there’s this hilarious gem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXnzCqZLX2o

    I don’t know. Swedish feminists seem like the typical man hating lunatics I’ve seen everywhere else.

    “Sorry if I insulted you, I’m having a really bad day. (Have you ever
    tried to normalise a database? It’s fucking hard.)” – yes, I do have to
    normalise databases on a daily basis. Still doesn’t excuse your nasty
    attitude and baseless assumptions about me for simply stating my
    opinion.

  • Shattno

    I think you have misunderstood the thing with the word Hen. No one is saying that little boys and girls are gender neutral, the word is used when the gender of a person is undefined, like in a hypothetical situation where the gender of the person is irrelevant.
    The law thing is that this information does not exist, no one is keeping track of the ethnicity of criminals (that thing in the US where people are Caucasian, African American, Hispanic etc., we don’t really have that in our system. ) So in order to get the data you’d have to create a registry over people, and that’s been illegal since WW2 ish. The Gothenburg police recently got in trouble for keeping a record of criminal gypsies. This kind of stuff is sensitive over here.
    It’s not wishy-washy, it’s the moral code this country is built upon, it’s our national identity, it’s who we are. We help people in need, just like how we took in refugees from Norway and Finland when they where occupied by Germany and attacked by the USSR respectively.
    Off the top of my head: Rights like the right to equal compensation for equal work, we are still not 100% there, and how a lot of stipends for universities, about half, specifically says the applicant has to be male (only one exists with a female requirement), opportunities like how women are expected to sacrifice their career for maternity leave and how sports that are traditionally seen as women’s sports receive less government money, and presence as in official texts not defaulting to him when the gender is unknown (to tie in with the first point) and showing children as many female role models as male ones. I don’t believe in a fifty-fifty split, that’s unreasonable, but I believe that diversity is positive, to quote GitS “over specialise and you breed in weakness”
    Ok, you dug up some nutcases, I promise you they don’t represent the norm. But as you won’t take my word for it and don’t want to come see for yourself, I don’t really know what more to say.
    Ok, so how do you cope with that, because this is terrible, I’m completely lost and I miss C#.
    Also, geeze, I said I was sorry, but I am a bit stingy because you called my country a hellhole…

  • Mr0303

    “No one is saying that little boys and girls are gender neutral, the word
    is used when the gender of a person is undefined, like in a
    hypothetical situation where the gender of the person is irrelevant.” – then why use that in pre schools when the genders are clearly identified?

    “The law thing is that this information does not exist, no one is keeping track of the ethnicity of criminals” – that doesn’t seem to be the case. Apparently such reports were made in 1995 and 2005:
    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/01/18/sweden-blocks-data-crime-immigration/

    “The Gothenburg police recently got in trouble for keeping a record of criminal gypsies.” – so the police keeping records on known criminals is somehow an issue. Brilliant.

    “It’s not wishy-washy, it’s the moral code this country is built upon,
    it’s our national identity, it’s who we are. We help people in need,
    just like how we took in refugees from Norway and Finland when they
    where occupied by Germany and attacked by the USSR respectively.” – helping people in need is one thing, but not filtering them and letting them run amok is not very moral in my book.

    You didn’t mention a single right that men have and women don’t, but I’ll address your examples regardless:

    “Rights like the right to equal compensation for equal work, we are still not 100% there” – ah, the paygap lie. Isn’t it illegal in Sweden to pay people differently for the same work regardless of gender? There are laws in the UK and the US that already deal with that.

    ” and how a lot of stipends for universities, about half, specifically says the applicant has to be male” – I find that hard to believe. I’d like to see the data. The situation here in the UK is reversed – there are plenty of female bursaries and the only male ones are if you are from a minority group.

    “how women are expected to sacrifice their career for maternity leave” – it’s their choice and a biological reality. If they want to have a child they won’t be able to work as hard and have to spend time off work. There’s nothing feminists can do about that one. Next.

    “how sports that are traditionally seen as women’s sports receive less government money” – what sports are those? It is reasonable to assume that football needs more finances than figure skating. Expecting parity there is insane. Next.

    “and presence as in official texts not defaulting to him when the gender is unknown” – how is that an issue? If Swedish feminists didn’t have a problem with men they wouldn’t be offended by this. Saying that somebody is a policeman is not an issue especially given the proportion of males to females in that job.

    “showing children as many female role models as male ones” – what does the gender of the role model has to do with anything? Why can’t say Ablert Einstein be a role model for everybody?

    “but I believe that diversity is positive, to quote GitS “over specialise and you breed in weakness”” – again – how is bringing more women in male jobs or vice versa going to help companies in any way? It’s best to hire the most competent people regardless of gender.

    “Ok, you dug up some nutcases, I promise you they don’t represent the norm.” – ah, so now my examples are not good enough (even though some are mainstream like the feminist party you guys have in Sweden) and I should trust your personal experience on the matter. I’m sorry but anecdotal evidence is useless in a discussion like this. In my view all feminists are crap since the core of their ideology is that men deliberately oppress women using a made up bogeyman called “The Patriarchy”.

    “But as you won’t take my word for it and don’t want to come see for yourself, I don’t really know what more to say.” – you correctly assumed that I won’t take your word for it and as for what you could say I may suggest conceding a point in the face of overwhelming evidence.

    “Ok, so how do you cope with that, because this is terrible, I’m completely lost and I miss C#.” – the best strategy is to do it one normal form at a time.

    “Also, geeze, I said I was sorry, but I am a bit stingy because you called my country a hellhole…” – I called it an SJW hell hole. There is a difference. I’d put the US, UK, Germany, Australia and Canada in the same category, but this doesn’t mean I think these countries as a whole is something out of the third world.

  • Smokratez

    You’re joking. Kids get taught communism in schools these days.

  • AuraMaster DX (austin9568)
  • Snorlaxation

    I don’t see how, when the characters they show are wearing swastikas.

  • Snorlaxation

    I don’t get how the people that regularly comment on this site and typically seem so well read or above it all are getting so triggered by this.
    Whatever Bethesda believes, they chose to get their games name out there and on people’s minds by drawing these kinds of parallels, all for the sake of PROFIT.

    I highly doubt the german nazis in this game are going to be comparable to anything except the legitimate Nazi’s, and actual KKK members, we have here in america. Not Conservatives, Not Republicans, Not Religious Fundamentalists, but the actual people wearing Swastika’s or spouting Nazi drivel or ‘white is right and everything else is wrong’ nonsense.

  • Shattno

    Ok, no offense, but are you trying to misunderstand me on purpose?
    What
    do you mean where genders are clearly defined? Does it matter where the
    hypothetical situation is used? You go “This is a police car. Inside is
    a police officer. Hen arrests criminals.” in a situation when
    explaining about police, and the gender of the officer is still
    undefined, if we would continue the story the officer might be fleshed
    out and become more of a character with a name and gender and the
    pronoun Han or Hon. It’s about when talking about something sufficiently
    vague we don’t make assumptions, I don’t find this concept strange.
    I
    highly doubt those reports exist, or more that they don’t contain the
    information people seem to think they do, but my sister works for the
    police, I can check with her if she knows anything. Also it’s only an
    issue when you keep information on only some of the criminals, in this
    case based on ethnicity.
    How do you filter people? How do you know
    who is a criminal and who is not? These people barley have passports, so
    it’s not like we have access to criminal records. So we take a chance,
    knowing that the majority of them are just regular people who want to
    find peace, and then we sort out the bad eggs later. It’s the humane way
    to do it. Also it might not be moral in your book, but it is in Sweden’s book.
    Yes it’s
    illegal to pay different to different genders, and so is not paying your
    taxes, dumping toxic waste into the Baltic sea, murder and rape people, but that doesn’t
    mean it isn’t still happening. The pay gap is kind of an other issue (people
    tend to misunderstand this one a lot), it’s about different salaries in
    male and female dominated jobs.

    I tried to Google the stipend thing,
    but I get swamped by sites that want to give me stipends. My university sent me this a couple years back tho, apparently they felt I should apply to some of them:
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d8c051f7a0dd6b772395bcbccfa6d63bab7afa91e12940fbbc4ffa29bca3da18.png

    Yeah, it’s a choice, for both parents, the father should be involved to. What we can do is to encourage a more equal split of the parental leave, it makes it more fair and it’s good for the child to spend time with both parents.
    Wait, why is it reasonable? Both are well loved Olympic sports. And even with football, women’s football aren’t nearly as prioritized. (Also why is it called football and women’s football, and not men’s football and women’s football?)
    I’m not talking about policeman or fireman, I’m talking about official documents, such as the law for example. It’s always a “man doing this”, “man should that” and “man is whatever”, why not “a person doing” or “one should”, this is perhaps a Swedish language thing, but important never the less.
    The should absolutely hire competent people, but try to find people from different genders, different backgrounds, different religions, different walks of life. People think different and a mix is always good, no one knows everything but everyone knows something.
    The gender (and other qualities) of the role model has a lot to do with it, if a child see someone they identify with in a position they aspire to, chances are higher they will make it there. It’s basic psychology. If a child see that most scientists are men and most secretaries are women, what conclusions do you think they are going to draw?
    Ok, so honestly, do you really think that that’s how all Swedish feminists are? Really? Because most of them are just regular people, men and women, who happen to believe in a world with equality. Pretty much every major politician claim to be feminist. Pretty much every celebrity. The people you linked to are the extreme ones, the ones that make noise, the ones that stick out, a very unswedish behavior actually. People here generally believe in equality, inclusion, tolerance and acceptance, but generally keep their opinions to themselves, flaunting your political or religious view is not something you do, it’s something private. Again, I really wish you could come here and experience it.
    Yeah, I’m doing one normal form at a time, but then I messed up the ER diagram somehow and I got yelled at by a polish person in polish, so I don’t even know what I screwed up. First and last time I agree to help fix a database, tell you that much.
    But ok, if you put all those countries as feminist hellholes, and don’t like the third world, what’s left? Southern Europe?Japan and South Korea? What is a good country? How do you want to live?

  • Mr0303

    “What do you mean where genders are clearly defined?” – in preschool it is quite obvious who is a boy and who is a girl. Removing gendered pronouns there makes 0 sense unless you are pushing an ideology.

    “These people barley have passports, so it’s not like we have access to criminal records.” – so do you regularly let strangers live in your house? I’m sure most of them are good people. They don’t need an identification or anything.

    “Also it might not be moral in your book, but it is in Sweden’s book.” – and this level of stupidity is part of why I don’t like Sweden.

    “Yes it’s illegal to pay different to different genders” – well, case closed. Feminists have no issue on that part then. Any potential violations should be handled by the law.

    Your university send you male only stipends? Imagine my shock!

    “Yeah, it’s a choice, for both parents, the father should be involved to.” – sure, but this doesn’t change the fact that it’s women who bear children. During pregnancy they are less effective at work and they need to recover for at least a couple of months once the child is born. Losing an year in the highly competitive market could damage your career, but that’s the choice women have to make.

    “Wait, why is it reasonable? Both are well loved Olympic sports.” – it doesn’t matter how loved they are. They are not equal in terms of needing resources and investment. Football is a much more watched sport and can potentially bring in more profits.

    “And even
    with football, women’s football aren’t nearly as prioritized. (Also why
    is it called football and women’s football, and not men’s football and
    women’s football?)” – of course women’s football is not prioritised. Men’s football is much more dynamic, high risk and again profitable. Men are stronger and faster than women, which is why competitive sports like this will always prioritise men. As for why it is called just football and not men’s football – well this is due to the number of men and women playing football. Given that the male version is the default and majority there is nothing wrong in calling it just football.

    “why not “a person doing” or “one should”, this is perhaps a Swedish language thing, but important never the less.” – because it is not important. Given that men and women are equal whatever laws apply to men they should also apply to women. Going over tons of legal texts just to change that is ultimately pointless work and the definition of a first world problem. Again – if feminists didn’t have a problem with men this wouldn’t be an issue.

    “The should absolutely hire competent people, but try to find people from
    different genders, different backgrounds, different religions,
    different walks of life.” – why? Are you assuming that all men think in the same way? Are you assuming that women think in a different manner? This fake diversity is the last thing an employer should worry about. What you said can only lead to quotas and those are cancerous.

    “The gender (and other qualities) of the role model has a lot to do with
    it, if a child see someone they identify with in a position they aspire
    to, chances are higher they will make it there.” – citation needed on that one. Very curious to see where you’ll get the statistics here.

    “If a child see that most scientists are men and most secretaries are
    women, what conclusions do you think they are going to draw?” – “science is cool, I want do it and I find secretary work boring”. Interests have nothing to do with the gender of the person. If a woman wants to be an engineer she can go work as an engineer. There is no need for gendered role models. What you have between your legs has little to do with the work that you’ll be doing.

    “Ok, so honestly, do you really think that that’s how all Swedish feminists are?” – no I never said that, but everyone who believes in this hateful ideology is equally wrong.

    “Pretty much every major politician claim to be feminist. Pretty much every celebrity.” – are you starting to see why I don’t like Sweden?

    “The people you linked to are the extreme ones, the ones that make noise,
    the ones that stick out, a very unswedish behavior actually.” – they are honest ones. Again – one of the examples was from the feminist party. This is feminism in its purest form. Who do you think is more representative of feminism – the average Jane in a coffee shop or the leader of the feminist party?

    “People here generally believe in equality, inclusion, tolerance and acceptance” – and those have nothing to do with feminism. The hint is in the name.

    “Again, I really wish you could come here and experience it.” – and again, I’m not coming anywhere near Sweden.

    “But ok, if you put all those countries as feminist hellholes, and don’t like the third world, what’s left?” – central Europe is quite good on those things. That being said I’m not leaving the West. I’ll simply continue to ridicule and expose feminism for the hateful movement that it is.

    “How do you want to live?” – I want to live without gender ideologues messing with culture, the industry, politics and science itself.

  • Shattno

    Ok, quick answers cuz I’m getting bored and I don’t think well ever feel the same here.

    No one is calling the children gender neutral pronouns, why do you refuse to understand that? Are you doing this on purpose? Whatever, give it a generation and it will be just another Swedish word and no one will bat an eye.

    I do couch surfing, so yes, a lot of strange people from all over the world.

    I find it unfair that some stipends are gender bound, at the very least you could have an equal amount of excluding ones, so everyone could be equally unhappy.

    Yes, the women are away during pregnancy, but that was not what I was talking about, but you knew that.

    One instead of Man might not be important to you, but it is to a lot of people so I think it’s worth doing a search and replace for, should take all of five minutes.
    And yes, it’s a first world problem, and that’s a good thing, the less big problems a society has the more small ones are being fought over.

    I don’t assume anything of the sort, that’s why I wrote “different backgrounds, different religions, different walks of life”, it’s not all about gender.

    You’re the one who initially claimed the opposite, so you show me some statistics first.

    “What you have between your legs has little to do with the work that you’ll be doing” A lot of people disagree to that, sadly.

    Average Jane in a coffee shop. 100%, all days of the week.

    Equality, inclusion, tolerance and acceptance is pretty much the definition of feminism over here, if you have another definition, I think we are talking about different things.

    You keep saying hateful, I don’t see that hate. Who hurt you? Me, I’ve been beaten up by neo nazis, by football supporters, once by a Russian gang and several times by ordinary Swedish racists. I’ve also been threatened to death by alt righters a few times. Those are hateful. Never even had an argument where I had to raise my voice with a feminist. So it’s hard for me to see you angle.

    “I want to live without gender ideologues messing with culture, the industry, politics and science itself.” Well good luck with that, we’r not exactly going in the right direction for you then. I, on the other hand, are quite comfortable in this feminist hellhole, thank you very much.

  • Mr0303

    “No one is calling the children gender neutral pronouns, why do you refuse to understand that?” – I beg to differ.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14038419

    Let’s see if you refuse to understand that.

    “I do couch surfing, so yes, a lot of strange people from all over the world.” – that is not what I asked. You are the one going into people’s homes not the other way around.

    “I find it unfair that some stipends are gender bound, at the very least
    you could have an equal amount of excluding ones, so everyone could be
    equally unhappy.” – we’re in complete agreement here. Only the best person should get the stipends regardless of gender or race.

    “Yes, the women are away during pregnancy, but that was not what I was talking about, but you knew that.” – no, I don’t know what else are you talking about. The topic was choosing between a career and kids and due to pregnancy this is a choice women have to make. It’s biology. Feminists can’t do anything about that.

    “One instead of Man might not be important to you, but it is to a lot of
    people so I think it’s worth doing a search and replace for, should take
    all of five minutes.” – citation needed on the number of people who care and the amount of time and work for all this to be replaced.

    “You’re the one who initially claimed the opposite, so you show me some statistics first.” – this is not how it works. You claimed that seeing more role models of the same gender will increase the probability that they’ll go into the desired profession (“chances are higher they will make it there”), so it’s on you to prove that claim.

    “A lot of people disagree to that, sadly.” – mainly feminists who push for gender quotas.

    “Average Jane in a coffee shop. 100%, all days of the week.” – well, you are just being dishonest now. Do you think that Jane is aware of feminist theory or can name a single feminist author? How about leading feminists from the different waves?

    “Equality, inclusion, tolerance and acceptance is pretty much the
    definition of feminism over here, if you have another definition, I
    think we are talking about different things.” – why is it called “feminism” then? How can it be about equality if it focuses only on one gender? Plus I already showed how nice and tolerant feminists in Sweden actually are. Actions trump definition any day of the week (look up the definition of national socialist if you don’t believe me).

    “You keep saying hateful, I don’t see that hate. Who hurt you?” – nobody hurt me. Yours or mine personal experiences don’t matter. I call feminists hateful because this is the behaviour they exhibit. Calling men toxic and blaming all their problems in life on men (The Patriarchy) is not a nice thing to do. Demonising half the people on the planet is exactly why feminists are up there with the worst ideologies in history.

    “Well good luck with that, we’r not exactly going in the right direction
    for you then. I, on the other hand, are quite comfortable in this
    feminist hellhole, thank you very much.” – I’m fine with this arrangement. Just know that feminists don’t have your best interests in mind. I thought that as a gamer you’d be aware of that, but apparently not.

  • grgspunk

    So what’s your point? Why am I supposed to care about it again?

  • Kain Yusanagi

    Except it seems more to me that they’re saying that America is great when it’s Nazi-free, so Make America Great Again? Then make it Nazi-free (since in the Wolfenstein alt-history, the Germans won WWII with their weirdly advanced tech and mechs and shit). Simple as that.

  • Shattno

    Shit, I wasn’t aware, I’m sorry. But now I’m all for it! Article is from 2011 tho, but now the results are in:
    https://m.phys.org/news/2017-05-children-swedish-gender-neutral-preschools-gender-stereotype.html

    “… may not reduce children’s tendency to use gender to categorise people, it reduces their tendency to gender-stereotype and gender-segregate” that’s a good thing! It will be interesting to see how this pans out.

    Couch surfing obviously must work both ways or no one would have anywhere to sleep, strangers sleep in one of my spare bedrooms all the time.

    Stipends doesn’t work like that, you get them from being a. poor b. born or raised in a certain location / related to someone c. being a member of a certain student nation, most often a combination of a, b and c.

    I was talking about the 480 days of paid parental leave that both parents share, and how it should be split more equal.

    I care, so at least one person, and search and replace has O(N) time complexity.

    Different people think differently. There’s probably some research paper out there that proves my point, but I’m not going to bother.

    Mainly men who says women can’t do STEM

    Average Swedish Jane knows more than you think. Average Joe as well, as quite a few men here are feminists too.

    Historical reasons? You only showed a handful of extremists, I believe in action over words too, to experience the Swedish feminism you’d have to live here for a while. We are a very kind and loving people.

    Well, ok, whatever, I could go into an entire thing about how men are pretty much responsible for all shit since the stone age, but I won’t, because I feel it would be pointless.

    Cool, I’m fine too. But don’t assume to know my best interests, I’m fine with what’s happening.

  • Mr0303

    “Shit, I wasn’t aware, I’m sorry.” – you don’t seem to be aware about a lot of things. Now your initial accusations of me not knowing anything about Sweden seem rather silly.

    “But now I’m all for it!” – of course you are. Confusing children at a young age by not teaching them the differences between men and women can only lead to chaos at later stages. In my view this equates to child abuse.

    “Couch surfing obviously must work both ways or no one would have
    anywhere to sleep, strangers sleep in one of my spare bedrooms all the
    time.” – this explains a lot.

    “Stipends doesn’t work like that, you get them from being a. poor b. born
    or raised in a certain location / related to someone c. being a member
    of a certain student nation, most often a combination of a, b and c.” – there are stipends for achievement and of course your income has to be taken into account.

    “I was talking about the 480 days of paid parental leave that both parents share, and how it should be split more equal.” – no, it shouldn’t. Women would still need the majority of that due to pregnancy.

    “I care, so at least one person, and search and replace has O(N) time complexity.” – so because you care about this minor issue the government has to put in major resources and time to alter all legal texts. Talk about entitlement. Also changing legal documents is not a simple search and replace. There are legal cases that may have been precedent setters, where the genders of the people are clearly defined.

    “Different people think differently. There’s probably some research paper
    out there that proves my point, but I’m not going to bother.” – anything submitted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

    “Mainly men who says women can’t do STEM” – who are those men? Who says that?

    “Average Swedish Jane knows more than you think. Average Joe as well, as quite a few men here are feminists too.” – yeah, right. But lets assume that’s true. This means that average Swedish Jane knows all about the works of the different feminist scholars. This would mean that she’s just as evil as the examples I provided. This is another reason to stay away from Sweden – even the regular people are gender ideologues apparently.

    “Historical reasons?” – so why not change it now if it’s for both genders? You are all for adding females in legal texts, but they are not willing to change the name of the movement? I wonder why that is.

    “You only showed a handful of extremists” – again, Swedish feminist party. Also people in your government babbling about feminist foreign policy. Those are not extremist, but mainstream examples. Unless you are claiming that people in your government are extremists, which would be another reason not to be in Sweden.

    “to experience the Swedish feminism you’d have to live here for a while. We are a very kind and loving people.” – actually I don’t. Much like how I don’t have to go to Saudi Arabia to experience Sharia to know that I wouldn’t like it very much. I’m sure they are also very kind and loving people, but their ideology is not something I’d ever want to live in.

    “Well, ok, whatever, I could go into an entire thing about how men are
    pretty much responsible for all shit since the stone age, but I won’t,
    because I feel it would be pointless.” – yeah, and women never did anything in the mean time. It’s not like they raise and form the children. It’s not like there have been women rulers ever since the Antiquity. Nooo, it’s all men’s fault. I can recommend a couple of books on the matter – “The Hand That Rocks the World” by David Shackleton and “The Myth of Male Power” by Warren Farrel (a feminist by the way), where your false assumptions about men are addressed rather nicely.

    “Cool, I’m fine too. But don’t assume to know my best interests, I’m fine with what’s happening.” – OK. I’m just warning you that feminists don’t like men seems you seem to be blissfully ignorant on the matter.

  • Νικήτας Πολυπεπόνης

    ““none of us expected that the game would be seen as a comment on current issues”. Bullshit! Is this why they used an alternation of MAGA slogan?

  • Shattno

    How am I supposed to know about a single preschool in a city I don’t live in that was reported on six years ago?
    I don’t consider it abuse, mostly because that the psychologists seem cool with it and the study showed nice results. But I can see where you’re coming from, as I myself view all religious schools as abuse.

    What exactly does it explain? That I’m hospitable and keep an open mind?

    There are stipends for achievements yes, however these are not, unless you count being born with a penis an achievement.

    Nope, it’s 480 days after the child is born.

    I was making a joke.
    “There are legal cases that may have been precedent setters, where the genders of the people are clearly defined.” So you mean that people where judged based on their gender, that sounds awful and in that case it should definitely be changed.

    Ok, so different people think the same?

    A lot of the general population has gender awareness, yes. I can’t understand why you’re calling it evil, but evil is a relative term i guess.

    Personalty I mean I don’t call myself feminist, i call myself egalitarian, but I guess it’s called feminism because its roots are in the women’s rights movement. Now in the third wave it’s about a lot of things, some good some batshit crazy.

    The feminist party (Feminist Initiative or F!) is not in the government. We do have a feminist foreign policy as you said, from the link you provided it says that “…Sweden has a duty to ensure that “women and girls can enjoy their fundamental human rights.”” Do you think this is wrong, if so why?

    I’m struggling to understand here. I get that in Saudi you’d be under sharia and that’s not nice. But what would be so terrible about being here? A concrete example would help a lot.

    I really don’t want to go into that, because it will lead to an even lengthier discussion. But some things you cannot sweep under the rug, like that mostly men rape, men show much more violent tendencies, and men are over represented in criminal activities. There has to be a reason for this. What is it? Is it nature or nurture? Does the books try to answer this, because then I’ll might pick them up.

    Far from all feminists hate or even dislike men, that’s a misconception, a lot of my close friends (both male and female) are feminists and they don’t. I mean some feminist do, but I don’t associate with them, same as I have friends who are Muslim but I don’t hang out with people from ISIS, that would be ludicrous.

    If you want to continue this discussion I’m just giving you a heads up as I will be out of commission for a while (days maybe), I will be drinking and playing SNES and getting payed for it. Turns out the polish guys liked my work after all.

  • Mr0303

    “How am I supposed to know about a single preschool in a city I don’t live in that was reported on six years ago?” – that’s fair enough. I was more mocking your outright dismissal of quite a few of my evidence.

    “I don’t consider it abuse, mostly because that the psychologists seem
    cool with it and the study showed nice results. But I can see where
    you’re coming from, as I myself view all religious schools as abuse.” – I’m against this kind of social engineering in general, be that religious or ideological. Let the kids be kids and refer to them as boys and girls because that’s what they are.

    “What exactly does it explain? That I’m hospitable and keep an open mind?” – that you are gullible and trusting, much like your country as a whole.

    “There are stipends for achievements yes, however these are not, unless you count being born with a penis an achievement.” – well then I’m in favour of removing gender as a factor and just consider financial situation for those. How the university handles that though is up to them and not biased feminist lunatics.

    “Nope, it’s 480 days after the child is born.” – OK, so what’s the issue here? The mother still has to recover after giving birth to the child and will likely spend the first couple of months with it, especially if she’s breastfeeding.

    “I was making a joke.” – har, har.

    “So you mean that people where judged based on their gender, that sounds awful and in that case it should definitely be changed.” – no, I mean if somebody committed a crime in a previous case the law professionals can refer to that when they encounter a similar case. In that situation the gender of the original person who committed the crime can’t be simply replaced. This is how legal precedents work.

    “Ok, so different people think the same?” – no, everybody thinks differently regardless of their race and gender.

    “A lot of the general population has gender awareness, yes. I can’t
    understand why you’re calling it evil, but evil is a relative term i
    guess.” – I’m calling it evil, because I’ve read academic feminists and that’s what they are. Their writings demonising men are no different than the other hateful ideologies like religion, communism and Nazism. I guess evil is subjective, but then so is any quantifying term in reference to a way of thinking. You are claiming that the general population is familiar with those works (which I find laughable, but still) and embraces them, ergo they are also evil.

    “Personalty I mean I don’t call myself feminist, i call myself
    egalitarian, but I guess it’s called feminism because its roots are in
    the women’s rights movement.” – yes, you already said that. I asked why haven’t they changed the name. Simple question. I can answer it actually – because feminism is a movement focusing solely on women’s rights. They don’t help men and in fact demonise them constantly.

    “The feminist party (Feminist Initiative or F!) is not in the government.” – I never said that it was, but it is rather representative of the feminist position, despite your desperate attempts to deny that.

    “We do have a feminist foreign policy as you said” – so you do acknowledge that this is a mainstream example then?

    “Do you think this is wrong, if so why?” – for one thing foreign policy should be focused on relationships with other countries, economic partnerships and military intervention and not about some lame ideological bent. If a country has Christian foreign policy, or a Muslim foreign policy it would be just as ridiculous. Even if we ignore all that a feminist foreign policy shows care and compassion only for women. Excluding half of the population on the planet is not a nice thing to do.

    “I’m struggling to understand here. I get that in Saudi you’d be under
    sharia and that’s not nice. But what would be so terrible about being
    here? A concrete example would help a lot.” – in Sweden I’d be under feminism and that’s not nice. As you mentioned the general public believes in feminism, which means that I’d be demonised for being a man. As for a concrete example – being late for work because of feminist snow ploughing is not something I’d enjoy.

    “But some things you cannot sweep under the rug,” – I haven’t swept anything under the rug and that’s rather disingenuous of you to say that I did.
    “like that mostly men
    rape” – women are often excluded from the rape statistics, because of a feminist named Mary Koss:

    https://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/male-disposability-and-mary-p-koss/

    In the UK women cannot be convicted of rape, only sexual assault. In the US only forceful penetration is considered rape and not forceful envelopment. For a woman to rape a man she’d have to use a dildo or an object, all other cases are not rape. Not to mention how often female paedophile teachers get away with statutory rape.

    “men show much more violent tendencies” – women are just as violent as men, but they are weaker and do less damage when they are. Then there are violent mothers who beat their children. If you want to learn more on the issue I can point to the works of Errin Pizzey – a feminist who created the first domestic violence shelter in the UK.

    “and men are over
    represented in criminal activities.” – women are given lesser sentences for the same crimes and then there’s the issue of a lot fewer female prisons.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/11/men-women-prison-sentence-length-gender-gap_n_1874742.html

    “Does the books try to answer this, because then I’ll might pick them up.” – yes, they do go into a lot of those issues.

    “Far from all feminists hate or even dislike men, that’s a misconception” – no it’s not. Their great devil is called The Patriarchy (again the hint is in the name). Feminists invented terms like toxic masculinity, male tears and mansplaining (remember the phone service example about that?).

    “a lot of my close friends (both male and female) are feminists and they
    don’t. I mean some feminist do, but I don’t associate with them, same
    as I have friends who are Muslim but I don’t hang out with people from
    ISIS, that would be ludicrous.” – what did we say about using personal experience in a discussion like this? It’s worthless. Saying that feminists hate men is just like saying that Muslims hate pork or alcohol. It’s not a controversial statement and a rather obvious one. Any feminist that believes that for thousands of years men have willingly oppressed their mothers, sisters, wives and daughters has an internal distrust and dislike for men.

    Let me level with you. I don’t expect that you’d check my citations or read the books I’ve recommended since that’s a lot of work. I can however suggest that you watch The Red Pill documentary that talks in length about feminism and the whole gender debate:

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3686998/

    Perhaps after watching it you can understand my distaste for feminism.

  • Phasmatis75

    They had a black man preaching about tolerance and unity. No it didn’t happen.

  • JoshuaBoudreaux

    Oh please, people making a big deal about this need a hobby or need to get laid, my god grow up and shut up -.- This is Wolfenstien for gods sake we have been killing nazies in it for 25 years

  • Yoral

    iirc the trailer highlighted the revolutionaries being communists. Feel free to check those out, I might be wrong. Tell me if so.

  • Do you know which trailer? I have seen both the E3 trailer and the newest gameplay trailer, and did not see any communism.

  • Found it, New Orleans gameplay video.

    https://youtu.be/RMwoRjBb5vE?t=16m12s

    3 of the MC’s allies happen to hold commie political views, that does not mean that the purpose of fighting Nazis in-game is to further a commie agenda. BJ goes so far as to rant on about how their political leanings cost the US the war, as shown in the linked video. Now, he was blackout drunk at the time, but he still said what he said.

  • Zombie_Barioth

    Are you referring to Pherrall Williams?

    Ok sure, one man’s preaching means the entire event in Charlottesville never happened. ANTIFA and BLM weren’t there either, nope.

    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/charlottesville-was-inevitable-white-nationalist-rally_us_59907756e4b090964297ba58

    And of course, there’s the lone moron with a Nazi flag. I doubt he was actually the only neo-Nazi there in a crowd like that.

  • le master trole

    (((pure coincidence)))

  • Hang pretty much every leftist and feminist.

  • Don’t do the citations, links, facts, logic and reasoning mate. Leftards like Shattno do not like these aspects.

  • Mr0303

    Even if I don’t convince him, this conversation is for other people who read it and compare both of our positions.

  • Yeah I know, I didn’t mean what I said literally. It was a comment to describe leftists.

  • dathip

    But yet you are still going to buy the game day one, which makes this drivel spewing out of your mouth useless.

  • Zaelle

    Speak for yourself, sport. I can promise you I will not be buying the game. Also, rude.