The Story Behind Fire Emblem Fates’ Completely Falsified “Gay Conversion”

fire emblem fates 07-03-15-1

Some bloggers caught wind of some interesting dialogue featured in Nintendo and Intelligent Systems’ recently launched Fire Emblem If, and have taken the game for a ride in a bid for more clicks over falsified controversy.

The number of websites and blogs that ran completely slanted pieces regarding this dialogue, some even before we even had proof of said dialogue, is almost beyond count.

WARNING: THERE ARE SPOILERS BELOW, SO DON’T READ ON IF YOU WANT THIS STORY ARC UNSPOILED

The entire controversy is surrounded around two characters: the protagonist, and Soleil (pictured above). [TL Note: Thus far the character’s names have been romanized as Kamui and Soleil in the dialogue] Soleil, the woman, is known to easily fall for other women, sometimes even fainting on the battlefield at the mere sight of cute girls.

At this point, it’s worth reiterating that Soleil’s actual sexual orientation isn’t clearly known (for now).

Due to her predicament, Soleil open up to the protagonist regarding her weakness towards other women. However, the protagonist uses magic to switch everyone’s gender, from her perspective, without her knowing.

The magic eventually wears off, and Soleil is now comfortable around other women – however, she’s now developed feelings for the protagonist as well. It’s also worth mentioning that Soleil is thankful afterwards, instead of upset or angry at the protagonist.

Instead of pointing fingers, let’s present the actual dialogue ourselves, which our translator (Claude Smith) has directly translated.


You can find the dialogue below. (Thanks, GaijinHunter!)

Kamui: Soleil, you’re sighing. Is something worrying you?

Soleil: Kind of, but I don’t think you’d be able to understand.

Kamui: Something I couldn’t understand? What is it?

Soleil: If you’re going to act like that, there’s nothing to be done. I’ll tell you. I want to be a cool, strong woman. That’s what I intend to do by working so hard. But even though I’m working hard, I have a weakness that I can’t seem to overcome.

Kamui: A weakness?

Soleil: Yes, and because of that . . . I’ve hit an obstacle on the road to becoming a strong and cool woman.

Kamui: That sounds very serious. What is it?

Soleil: (pauses) I’m very weak around cute girls.

Kamui: Oh, well, I know that. So?

Soleil: If I get close to one that’s my type, I end up fainting. I’m just too sensitive.

Kamui: Hmm?

Soleil: Do you remember? When we were coming back from the battle, I fainted!

Kamui: Oh yes, there was that. I worried that you might have been injured

Soleil: No, it’s not that. It wasn’t a result of the battle. The truth is …  A cute town girl came up to thank me and I got dizzy.

Kamui: Ah, is that how it was?

Soleil: So long as I have this weakness, it’ll be impossible for me to be a cool woman.

Kamui: I never knew you had this kind of worry.

(TEXT BOX) Kamui and Soleil’s Support Level Increased to C!

Soleil: Wait, who are you? (blushes)

Kamui: It’s me. Kamui.

Soleil: Whaaaaaaaa -! But you – the person before my eyes is a girl!

Kamui: It looks like this was a huge success.

Soleil: Success? I totally don’t get it.

Kamui: Right now, you see me as a girl, don’t you?

Soleil: Completely.

Kamui: Well, I got some magical powder. Sorry, but earlier, I put some of it in your drink. The people who take this powder, amazingly, see people outside of themselves as the opposite gender.

Soleil: Whaat? So because of that, I see Kamui-san as a girl?

Kamui: That’s right. After we talked, I thought a lot about how to resolve your troubles. Then I came to this conclusion. You see me as a girl, so use me to overcome the problem. I’ll move closer to you now. Be careful not to pass out and build up your tolerance.

Soleil: Eh? Eh!? I’m happy but I have my own type. And you’re really Kamui.

Kamui: Come closer. Look deeply into my eyes.

Soleil: Huh . . . wh- this feeling is . . .  It’s sort of out of place but . . . I feel my heart pounding. Say, Kaumi-san. Would you call my name?

Kamui: Soleil.

Soleil: Could you do that in a higher pitch?  To make it seem more real.

Kamui: All right. Soleil.

Soleil: Oooh!

Kamui: Thank you so much for saving our town! You’re really strong and cool!

Soleil: Wow!

Kamui: How was that? I tried to act like one of the town’s women.

Soleil: It was excellent. I’m on the verge of fainting.

Kamui: Okay then. We’ll use this method for special training. Shall we try again one more time?

Soleil: Yes, please do that. But before we do that, can I take a short break?

Kamui: Of course.

Soleil: Yay! So while this magic powder’s still in effect, I want to look at some of the male soldiers! This bunch normally is ugly. I wonder what kind of cute girls they’ll turn into?

Kamui: Wha -!? W- wait, Soleil! It’s not good to use the magic for things like that! Soleil!

(TEXT BOX) Kamui and Soleil’s Support Level Increased to B!

Kamui: Soleil, I looked for you.

Soleil: Oh, okay.

Kamui: How were the results of the special training?

Soleil: It was no good. Not much changed. But after I returned from battle, the cute town girls surrounded me. The blood rushed to my head, and when I came to, they were fussing over me. Even though you used that magic powder and gave me that special training.

Kamui: Ah, I see.

Soleil: I’m sorry, Kamui-san.

Kamui: It’s okay. No need for apologies. Good results don’t come quickly. So don’t let it get to you.

Soleil: That’s right. Putting on a gloomy face is no good. I used to be a crybaby, but Father told me something. Soleil, put on a happy face. If you laugh, something good will happen. So no matter what happens, I’m going to keep smiling. Okay!

Kamui: You don’t have to force yourself to smile.

Soleil: I won’t. I couldn’t succeed with the special training but you tried with all your might to do something for me. I’m very happy because of that. So this isn’t a forced smile. It’s a real one.

Kamui: Oh. Well, that makes me happy too. You’re an important comrade. And if you have more troubles in the future, I’ll lend a hand.

Soleil: Really? Thanks! Then maybe I’ll have you continue the special training. Seeing you as a woman is very appealing. And even if we don’t have the magic powder, it’s fun to be with you, Kamui-san!

Kamui: Thanks. I’ll think up many more ways to do special training in the future.

Soleil: Yes! I’m looking forward to it!

(TEXT BOX) Kamui and Soleil’s Support Level Increased to A!

Soleil: Ah, there you are. Kamuo-san!

Kamui: Soleil. You came!

Soleil: What’s up? You called me out here and I don’t see anything here.

Kamui: Ah, but there is something. Look up at the sky.

Soleil: The sky? Oh . . .

Kamui: On this side you can best how big the sun is.

Soleil: Wow, this is really pretty!

Kamui: Yes. It’s like looking at you.

Soleil: Hmm?

Kamui: Your smiling face is like the sun. I want to be next to that face, always looking at it.

Soleil: What is it, Kamuo-san? Did you hit your head really hard?

Kamui: No! I was being totally serious!  . . . Soleiyu, I have something I want you to accept.

Soleil: This is a ring.

Kamui: That’s right. Today, I called you here to propose to you.

Soleil: Marriage? Whaaaa!?

Kamui: I tried to find one that would suit you, modeled after the sun. I’d be glad if you accepted this.

Soleil: (pauses) I’m sorry!

Kamui: Oh.

Soleil: Wait, that’s not it! I wasn’t going to refuse. You went to all the trouble of confessing. I was apologizing for asking if you hit your head.

Kamui: Ah, is that all. You had me surprised.

Soleil: Of course my answer is “okay”! There’s no other man who can make my heart race like this. From the day I saw you as a woman, I always liked you.

Kamui: Oh, from the day you saw me as a woman. What if that hadn’t happened . . . you fell in love with the female me!?

Soleil: Right!

Kamui: Right, she says.

Soleil: But that’s okay. Right now I totally love the male Kamuo-san. Because from the time I drank that magic powder, I was seeing people as girls. And from that time, the only one who made my heart race was you, Kamuo-san. Even now, my heart is beating. Hey, want to touch my chest and see?

Kamui: Whoa! That’s not good!

Soleil: Why not?

Kamui: We’re not even a couple yet, I can’t be recklessly pawing a lady’s body. I understand how you feel . . . and you need to take good care of yourself.

Soleil: All right, I got it.

Kamui: That’s it. Thank you for accepting my marriage proposal. I’ll definitely make you happy. And in return, don’t fool around with other men. Although I probably don’t have to worry about that with you.

Soleil: (laughs) I won’t fool around. From now on, the only one for me is Kamuo-san. (spoken) Thank you! And I love you very much! This is the first time I’ve felt this way other than with women. This is a little embarrassing.

(scene ends)

[TL Note: And that was the scene. When we look at the entire content instead of cherry-picking, we see it’s a rather harmless and cute moment in a fantasy game. Her agency wasn’t reduced, and she could have refused his proposal at any time]


So there you have it – this is clearly not a case of a character being drugged up and forced to have sex with the opposite sex, in an effort to “convert” them (which actually happens in conversion camps here in the United States).

It’s utterly disgraceful to see blogs, let alone other websites, report on this dialogue and story arc in the way they have. I hope this serves as a reminder that we should wait until we have the actual dialogue on hand, upon which, we’ll do the evaluation.

[Editor’s Note: The article originally stated that Soleil was into girls in a bid to get revenge on her father – we do not have a proper source for this line of dialogue, as well as that she was ‘asking for help, by any means possible’ with her predicament. These have been amended for accuracy to the source material. Should we find evidence, we’ll update the post]

Brandon Orselli

About

Big Papa Overlord at Niche Gamer. Italian. Dad. Outlaw fighting for a better game industry. I also write about music, food, & beer. Also an IT guy.

  • Cy

    Wait for the facts? But there’s Social Justice ™ to be had!

  • Taedirk

    But muh outrage

  • Carl B.

    Aaaaand there you have it. Facts.

    /end

  • Carlos Hernadez Rios

    Sites like Destrutoid ran this and did no look to see if it was true is like they are trying to damage the game

  • chaoguy

    On the plus side, I know what waifu to pick if I go for the Black Version.

  • Mr0303

    Any journalist (and I’m using this term extremely loosely) using Tumblr and 4-chan as credible sources, without doing any fact checking whatsoever, shouldn’t really represent a respectable organization.

  • ArsCortica

    I wonder whether we will see any correction in regards to this from the usual suspects.

  • Domhnall

    I just hope the controversy doesn’t lead them to censor the game.

  • MaidKillua

    Presumably she goes with men regardless of if you do the MCs route anyway?

  • TrojanHorse711

    Using 4chan as a source should only be for RUMORS, not news.

  • Juhata

    The worst part is that this is not even an issue. The translated support conversations (provided thanks to importers) reveal that the MC only did it to help his dear friend get over her problems when it came down to dealing with cute girls, no other strings or shady stuff attached. The marriage only happens after she established the fact that she is aware and grateful for the MC to help her get better. She even tells the protagonist she fell in love with him in a legit way (after mentioning how he was cuter as a girl, anyway).

    The whole translated conversation is here: http://pastebin.com/bgQC0yEa

    The thing that angers me most about incidents like this is that the localized script gets changed even more because some rape fetishists in denial won’t stop inserting their own problems into something that doesn’t even have it. For fuck’s sake, I just want a game that sticks as close to the original product as possible without any unnecessary censoring or changes that destroy the original intent. If you’re insulted about something fake like this and demand for it to change when there’s nothing wrong, how the fuck do you expect for people to take you seriously?

  • Cred

    first of all thanks for being the first to do this

    NicheGamer as usual being one of the few real reliable sources

    this clear things up, it’s actual research with facts on the table like you know, JOURNALISM should be

    it’s an odd plotline but having plenty of unique character plots is part of the game’s appeal anyway, the dialogue is all innocuous but I wouldn’t be surprised if they censor it

    the list of potential censorship on fire emblem fates just keeps growing and I for one won’t bother buying it at all if anything gets censored in the west be it plot, characters, dialogue or features

    and on a side note is anyone really surprised that a bunch of clickbait sites ran by people that get triggered if anyone demands any level of ethics in their work jumped at the chance of being outraged once again and reposted a fabricated story, again ?

  • Cred

    and then when people dare demand ETHICS IN JOURNALISM we see those sites act like they are poor victims because people expect a degree of honesty and professionalism

  • Reyhip

    All this clickbait crap that keeps happening (and that most reasonable people seem to realize is crap) makes me want this whole big data advertising house of cards to finally come crashing down. Sure, you drive clicks, but who is looking at these articles has their eyes gaze to the bar on the right and say “Holy crap, Tide makes their product in stick form too?!? OMG I NEED IT NAO!!!”

  • Muten

    So… trap dōjinshi when?

  • flight2q

    SJW getting upset over the plot of Shallow Hal now?

  • Ippiki Okami

    Incredibly disappointing that sites such as Destructoid and International Business Times U.K. are reposting that tumblr post as a news article so they can get a few clicks. In a few days, I guarantee Fem Freq, Kotaku, & Polygon will be reposting that tumblr post also just to add fuel to a non existent fire to begin with.

  • Jake

    You know, the person who originally started this controversy actually DID have the translated dialogue on hand (not translated by them, though, it was originally translated by someone completely disconnected from this whole debate).
    They actually wrote up their false little essay on how homophobic, bigoted, or otherwise awful Nintendo is now when the facts were right in front of them (they even posted the translation on their blog), they just chose to believe what they wanted to believe.

    It’s just bizarre that so many people could get this so wrong, when the truth was right in front of them the whole time.

  • Freeman

    Aaaaah. Real journalism. Feels good.

  • My issue is that this was all off blog or forum posts, right? I wanted to wait until we had actual screens, or video. That was one of my biggest gripes with how it was handled initially.

  • Jake

    Though I feel I should add a question to this.

    “we do know that she pretended to be into women as well, in order to get revenge on her father – however, she later regrets it when it becomes habitual”
    Where exactly was this mentioned within the game? I remember seeing this mentioned in an imgur post that originally refuted this “gay conversion” silliness, but they never provided a source within the game because they “didn’t want to spoil much”.

    I’ve been following the fan translations for this game far more closely than I probably should be, and I haven’t seen any mention of this (it doesn’t even show up in her support conversation with her father).
    I’m not saying that you’re full of crap, I just think that sources should be pointed out when people can jump on anything they think could be a lie to support their argument and use that to discredit the whole write-up (not that this argument isn’t silly in the first place or anything).

  • Jake

    Yes, this was originally translated on 4chan, then it spread to tumblr, where someone picked up on it and made a large blogpost on the supposed “gay conversion” among other things, getting a lot of attention from a relatively large number of people.
    It was then posted on a couple gaming news sites that almost copied it (the tumblr post) word for word, who I guess were more interested in being the first to report some potential huge controversy than they were getting their facts straight or just researching something for longer than 10 seconds. All very frustrating stuff.

  • Carlos Hernadez Rios

    yep

  • MaidKillua

    So Tumblr is mad that you turn a straight person straight??? I suppose we were bound to get here some day…

  • Dewey Defeats Truman

    I can’t say I’m interested in this game (not much of a FE guy honestly) but the entire media circus surrounding it lately has been fucking pathetic.

    I like video games but more and more lately I have a hard time saying I want to hear another person’s opinion on video games since more often than not they’re just gonna say something that is at best misinformed and at worst out and out lying to further their own personal agenda.

  • Dewey Defeats Truman

    If it’s not supposed gay conversion therapy it’s the whole “marrying and fondling your sister” thing.

    I’m not touching this game until I can get someone to prove to me beyond a shadow of a doubt nothing has been changed, and I frankly don’t see that happening.

  • Dewey Defeats Truman

    Camilla?

  • Actually, you’re right.

    I apologize for this, this wasn’t in the actual lines of dialogue…… I’ll update the post and add an addenum.

    I want to be clear in that we didn’t find a source for that particular line of dialogue.

  • rudhvelyn

    You don’t understand she totes a strong independent lesbian.

  • Mighty No. 56008

    Excellent work!

    I noticed your disgust over this “issue” on twitter, and it’s good to see that instead of just getting annoyed over it that you churned out this article that presented everyone with the facts. Sadly something that should’ve been done by other websites, but then again, they’re not journalists.

  • rudhvelyn

    Thanks for this. Honestly this whole situation has reignited my anger towards game “journalism”.To a level I felt back in October and November

  • Derp

    What’s wrong with magic powder that makes people normal anyway? There are love potions, health potions, potions of invulnerability and cursed belts that change people’s sex in all sorts of fantasy games.

  • And with that, I implore you all, every time you see forum poster, a blog, or a Tumblrette say that FE Fate homophobic based on misinformation, link them here, and set the record straight.

  • Jake

    Thanks for making the effort, glad to see someone cares about getting things right.
    We’ll see if that line pops up somewhere in the future, because it’d be a very large and very interesting part of the character’s personality if it turns out to be true.

  • Jake Martinez

    It just makes me so mad I want to… ~~DESU~~~

  • Tyrannikos

    Thanks for writing this up, Brandon. You do good work.

    This particular case infuriates me for many reasons, most of which I won’t go into. The main thing that really kills me here is the ludicrous amounts of folks I see 100% advocating for censorship. People aren’t being sly in the wording anymore – I’ve seen friends, mutual friends and complete randoms blatantly claim they hope this game gets censored in many different ways. That’s who we are dealing with. People who think their way of thinking is THE ONLY way to think and everything else needs to be censored to “protect” us.

    Look, I many not like everything this new FE does, but I don’t want to see a single aspect censored. I can just shrug off what I don’t like and continue with the game. My preferences do not reign supreme when it comes to another person’s work.

  • Tyrannikos

    To be fair, I don’t think the character is straight, but she’s definitely not a lesbian like tumblrettes would like you to believe. Soleil makes it clear in another support conversation that she likes men and women – she just has specific tastes.

    The LGBTQUIA^3+ community isn’t too accepting of anything other than homosexuality. They love to rag on bisexual folks for whatever reason.

  • Jake Martinez

    I don’t even know if this interpretation is entirely accurate. I’d have to look at the conversations again but I’m pretty sure she states unequivocally that Kamui is the only one she’s ever gone ‘doki doki’ for.

  • Tyrannikos

    I remember reading several times that she tells Foleo she is attracted to him. Despite Foleo appearing 100% feminine, Soleil knows he’s male and is still holds that attraction. I don’t believe her to be lesbian or straight. I think she swings both ways, but she has specific taste in men – feminine men in particular, which is a legitimate preference.

    Take my info with a grain of salt. I haven’t played the game. Just read several people I tend to trust talking about this.

  • Jake

    That is indeed the case in this particular support conversation, but it’s like that for every almost every romance in both Fates and Awakening (the two games that have S-rank supports).

    If she gets an S-rank with some other character that isn’t Kamui, she’ll say that she loves THEM more than anyone (and with less crazy magic powder involved, too). It’s just how the silly romances work in this game.

    It’s important to point out that there are a few male characters she can get an S-support (which means marriage, for those who don’t know) with, not just Kamui.

  • MaidKillua

    Isnt someone else the bi character though? I was under the (admittedly strange) impression that she likes cute girls the same way people like cats (maybe just because im like that with anime boys I dunno)

    Or is she the bi character? I have no idea

  • buddyluv324

    Git Gud, Destructroid

  • DanTheMan

    Not the first time Destructoid flat-out lied to people and certainly not gonna be the last.

  • Jake

    She isn’t the “bi” character in terms of the game mechanics (she can’t marry a female player character), that’s someone else.

    From the game’s point of view, she’s completely straight. It’s impossible for her to get married to a woman. Of course, judging from some of the things she says, some people would find that rather bizarre and think that she probably should be able to marry a female player character, but what can you do?

  • Thanatos2k

    Game “journalists” at it again!

  • Carlos Hernadez Rios

    Her character seen to follow a Anime trope use alot in schools anime of the girl that finds other girls cute but is not attracted to romantically they do it alot in Senran Kagura with the whole boobs grope

  • Thanatos2k

    They’ll use Neogaf as a source without checking too.

  • Tyrannikos

    “impression that she likes cute girls the same way people like cats”

    Honestly, that could totally be it and I’m reading into her character too much. It wouldn’t surprise me.

  • Cred

    It’s not bizarre at all when you consider how politically motivated and lacking in ethics all of those sites are, you know they even held a secret list of “people that are offensive” they all secretly agreed to blacklist from being interviewed including developers and PR people

    we are way WAY past “bizarre” here
    making up shit, lies, fallacy and conspiracy is all proven facts that happen daily in videogames “journalists” like those

  • plyl172

    So let me get this straight.

    Soleil falls for women, sometimes even fainting on the battlefield over cute girls. I have no idea how you can say that, then follow it up by saying we don’t know her orientation. She might be bisexual, but if so it’s bisexual with a marked preference for girls. She doesn’t faint over cute guys.

    Kamui puts something in her drink without her knowing, and then essentially tells her “I slipped something in your drink so you would see guys as girls, so you can practice being around girls by using guys. Now practice using me.” And then she falls for him. So slipping something in a girl’s drink to “help her” is the starting point for a marriage. Ooookay. Not the skeeviest thing in the Fire Emblem series, but probably in the top 10.

    And the character who is so heavily into girls that she faints around them can only marry guys.

    I mean damn, are people really so desperate to hate on SJWs that they’ll look at that plot summary and that translated dialog and think to themselves “Yeah, this is fine”?

    Because that’s some pretty fucked up shit right there.

  • djluke_1993

    This whole thing here reminds me of the Seinfeld article where Elaine tries to convert the gay guy she is friends with to play for the other side…

  • Kyouraku

    It’s hardly her being bisexual, it’s a Japanese thing.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwN_aV_AlqI

  • plyl172

    The entirety of Soleil’s conversations makes it pretty clear that she like-likes cute girls. She faints at the sight of them. Her heart beats faster when she’s around them. She gets downright giddy over seeing Kamui as a girl. She makes it pretty clear to Foleo that she prefers women romantically. Unless all translators so far royally screwed up, she went after Foleo because he’s a guy that crossdresses as a cute girl and when she began chasing him around she didn’t know that he was really a dude. No, this can’t be played off as a Japanese character just liking “cute things”. Soleil likes the ladies. She goes on about it at length. But she can’t end up with them.

    Even keeping in mind cultural oddities like “totally straight” women visiting the Takarazuka Revue and Dansou Cafes, the idea that Soleil is actually completely heterosexual despite the way she can’t shut up about liking girls doesn’t hold up under the remotest scrutiny.

    The most we can reasonably say is that early reports exaggerated just how crappy this character and her storylines are, but this is still pretty shitty writing, and it’s embarrassing to see it being defended.

  • Kyouraku

    Yeah okay buddy.

  • XiaomuArisu

    Thank guys
    At least someone checks the fact

  • Wand

    To everyone: let Nintendo know you’ve had enough with this fabricated controversies

  • JackDandy

    Go be embarrassed elsewhere

  • chizwoz

    Lol destructoid have essentially hired 1 guy (Jed) to do social justice clickbait. Almost none of the other writers do it!

  • chizwoz

    What is this “respectable organization” thing?

  • So the original Fumblr blogger that started the shitstorm responded.
    http://andrea-ritsu.tumblr.com/post/123095085970/soleil-bisexuality-other-supports-and-drugging

    tl;dr pic related

  • CC

    You underestimate the levels to which they freak out over love potions now. I’ve see so much fandom try to justify Voldemort’s actions, and another section demonize J.K. Rowling for basically blaming his issues on being a product of rape etc. -> see also “But men getting raped-”

    Recently watched a director struggle to explain that no, get to the end of Midsummer Night’s Dream, everyone is happy, nope: tumblr generation says potion = emotional rape.

  • Suraimu

    Even if it really was a case of a character being drugged there would be nothing wrong with it either.
    Because its fiction.

  • Suraimu

    Thats pretty sad, you should seriously sit down with those friends and have a real serious conversation. Unfortunately most editors who are in charge of japanese translations also think like that you wouldnt believe the amount of stuff that gets changed in almost any translated from Japanese game, that no westerner ever learns about.

    You could learn Japanese, but its a pretty tough investment of time and effort.

  • CC

    Really? I heard the exact opposite regarding Foleo/Soleil, so please link.

    I have also heard it suggested in different SJW communities that she’s actually asexual except for Kamui, but likes very particular girls & guys, which is really intriguing to me. Especially since I think you’re forgetting that Japan has even less happening as far as sex in dating than the U.S. to the point of reaching a national “crisis” and indeed, there is a bureau set aside for this, so please go tell me more about what it means to be a bisexual woman who hasn’t had any lesbian partners, has none even available, but despite loving cute girls can’t date them because of a reverse Lon’qu weakness -> and so therefore she must be totally drugged in order to marry a man. As a bi woman engaged to a man, but without lesbian partners in the past or likely future myself, I’m dying to hear someone else explain it to me. It’d be a nice change from just erasing parts of my identity and experiences again.

    This isn’t to say Fire Emblem doesn’t have its fair share of problematic runs, but without trying new things, they try nothing at all. I’m very excited about the prospects for this one, particularly given the many GOOD things most press outlets outright erase, like the options to have A+ same-sex romances for characters with each other (drove me crazy in Awakening) or the Fire Oni tribe’s segregation vs. Air Oni integration, or Foleo, or the fact that there’s a playable male pegasus rider (FINALLY!!!) and even the teasers for both sides have ensured that I want to play… both sides. :T /bi reference again oops.

    I don’t understand the rush to negatively assume the worst rather than cautiously at least give the benefit of the doubt. At minimum, all you’re doing is forcing division and ostracizing people from one another. Try focusing on the good and unite.

  • Tyrannikos

    I keep politics, religion and money out of my friendships, so sitting down to talk to them is a no-go for me. That probably sounds like a total cop out. If they asked my opinion about this, I’d give it to them straight, but they’re typically the types who would just shy away rather than deal with a bit of debate. I don’t mind that, honestly.

    I do need to get back to my moon lessons though. I made good progress, but I can already tell the knowledge is slipping.

  • PmcC

    Nintendo generally doesn’t care about made up controversies, Its probably why they really don’t interact with major game websites anymore.

  • Tyrannikos

    Good god. How does this person misinterpret SO MUCH? Soleil doesn’t see her attraction to cute girls as a weakness. She sees uncontrollably fainting, possibly in the middle of a god damn WAR as a weakness. There’s a huge difference.
    Soleil falls for a man when she sees him as a woman, yes, but she KNOWS HE IS MALE. SHE ACCEPTS THAT AND STILL MARRIES HIS ASS. SHE IS BLATANTLY NOT LESBIAN. FUCK.
    She’s into females on at least some kind of physical level. She marries a male. That isn’t lesbian. She isn’t forced to marry Kamui. The magic gender potion doesn’t force her to do things against her own will.

    Why do people hate bisexual characters so much? It infuriates me. This person infuriates me. I’m starting to sympathize with Soleil on a personal level here. Starting to think about wooing her almost out of pure spite.

  • Jake_Was_Here

    I’m sure the conversation goes a bit differently if you chose to make the protagonist female, as well.

  • Assurbanipal The Great

    Hold on a minute, you have camps in the US where you are forced to take drugs and fuck women? Sign me up!

  • A girl can be A LOT into cute girls and still be bisexual with a preference for men. I know for a fact, cause that’s the case with my GF. She has tons of ecchi pictures on her mobile phone of girls and Yuri stuff, but apart from one American actor she cares very little for sexy males, Yaoi etc. Sorry for reality bursting your bubble.

  • キロ

    Yes, actually it’s a very different conversation, since the conversations aren’t copy pasted with pronoun differences.

    It just features Soleil swooning over the female protagonist’s body. xD

    http://pastebin.com/wjSVMt8w

  • キロ

    Actually as I saw in tracing the madness, it was @BwitterPerson on twitter who Jed (and so the others) got it from. The worst part is she was making a sarcastic joke about it and rolled with it. xD… I felt really bad for the tumblr user for getting caught up in having been the source instead… but I think the tumblr user was serious.

    Though, that certainly should not warrant harassment and death threats.

  • キロ

    Great article. I was over posting on Destructoid and such for the so called “damage control” that went into the whole mess. I did not think there was really any issue with the translation when checked, really, it came down to people misinterpreting, playing telephone, not reading correctly/missing the point, etc.

    It may be worth noting that the worst part about the whole mess is that the twitter user who the journalists picked it up from/found out about it was trolling…xD she was parodying how users on serenesforest were taking it and that really blew things up…

    Still, I am glad you did your own translation as I am certain people would rather prefer to see it that way from you all. So thank you.

    EDIT: The tweet in question:

    https://twitter.com/BwitterPerson/status/616382362457387008

    Flow behind controversy:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CI_9XWQUwAAIgJR.png:large

  • V Whitaker

    Thank you for this. Honestly, how do people maintain this level of outrage about every effing thing? They have to be exhausted.

  • Random Dude

    I’ll be honest; That was weird. I know there’s an anime stereotype of women who flirts with anyone, genders be damned but she take this to whole new level…

  • A Real Libertarian

    I’m going to let in on a secret.

    “Harassment and death threats” = “Oh shit, people are mad at my fuck-ups. Better start playing the victim”.

  • キロ

    Indeed, I am not sure if they actually received any, but if it is truth, I think it is unwarranted is all I am saying. : )

  • キロ

    You get used to it when you’re translating all sorts of media from Japan. xD

  • Softclocks

    Excellent work, as always!

  • Maiq TheLiar

    On one hand I’m sad to see these couple “social justice” articles on NicheGamer, but on the other hand I’m glad to see they’re presented in a more objective manner, so bravo. But I think may speak for most fans on the site when I say, we migrated from “those other sites” to avoid being exposed to this kind of stuff. :)

  • TheCynicalReaper

    FUCKING BASED

    Nice job, guys. Sweet going too, Claude!
    THIS is the kind of journalism gamers are proud to have.

  • TheCynicalReaper

    This site did that once but learned its lesson. Now we get articles like this instead.
    I wish other people learned from their mistakes instead of blindly stumbling on in their ignorance.

  • wererat42

    However you want to spin it, it still involves using mind-altering substances on someone without their knowledge or consent. Someone who is supposed to trust you as an ally.

  • C4

    Girls can flirt with each other and even have some quality time and still be into dudes. And the other way around, except it’s probably less common in media.

    It’s not like Anime invented those things… it just makes everything look more cute.

  • FalseTragedian

    WHY IS THERE NO S RANK FOR THIS PARING?
    This is supposed to be the FE with gay marriage!

  • C4

    All we really know is that she likes cute people? And she falls into the dude she S-Ranks with. Why can’t some people respect this…

    I’d like to read some of her A-Rank conversations with other girls though. That should make things more clear.

  • C4

    Why not accept her how she is?

  • キロ

    It is in truth limited to just two people who can only marry the player if they are the same gender, but are in a heterosexual romance with everybody else.

    I wish that, like media went out of their way to clear up this confusion, that they made that clear too that while there is same sex marriage, it is rather limited. : )

  • FalseTragedian

    I am well apprised of this. I just wish you could gay marry this girl. She’s cuter than not-Tharja and clearly pretty gay.

  • キロ

    Just making sure. Indeed, I agree with you. : )

  • A Real Libertarian

    As long as it’s just saying the facts following an investigation, and it doesn’t take over the site, I support it.

    Because it’s the responsibility of journalists to throw light on the shadows of ignorance, and light the torch of truth.

  • TheCynicalReaper

    “Yes, this was originally translated on 4chan, then it spread to tumblr…”
    Let no one tell you differently: Halfchan has become the “edgy” anonymous tumblr. Man has that site fallen…

  • TheCynicalReaper

    “How does this person misinterpret SO MUCH?”
    It’s hard to see things with their head stuck up their ass.

  • Hunter

    Soleil main problem is fainting when she see a cute girl, she doesn’t want to stop like them she wants to stop fainting in front of them because that embarrass her. The Male!Avatar is helping Soleil to stop fainting so it won’t embarrass her.

  • Duce Ralli

    I think I heard somewhere on Ralphretort comments that translation is happening in house. So hopefully it won’t happen.

  • Tyrannikos

    Yeah, 8-4 isn’t doing the localization (thank god). Treehouse is taking care of it, so I have a bit more hope.

  • Tyrannikos

    I didn’t migrate from other sites to get away from politics in games. I migrated from other sites who shove their own personal politics down my thrown with little to no research done beforehand. I migrated away from misinformation and manufactured hysteria.

  • Rachnee

    Typical Destructoid shit.

  • Noah Howard

    Even if they did know all the facts, they’d still find something to be offended about. We can give them context and reasonable reason all we want, but they’ll just avoid everything in front of them just because of a perceived social issue.
    Ex: WHAT? Fix her identity to stop her from fainting on the battlefield? You sexist, white male tyrant!

  • Furyhunter

    Kamui: Oh, from the day you saw me as a woman. What if that hadn’t happened . . . you fell in love with the female me!?

    are you fucking kidding me? THIS _IS_ MANIPULATION

    You’ve literally used “magic” to convert a gay woman into a bisexual woman for your personal gain.

    That’s pretty fucking egregious.

  • Furyhunter

    Yeah, it’s innocuous if you’re a straight man who fetishizing shit like this.

  • Peter Brydon

    It’s a bit weird, but I’m thinking the drama seems overblown. The whole thing seems like ecchi, and some Japanese stereotypes are added in. It’s not completely innocuous but it’s hardly the gay straight conversion. It just depends on how you want to think about it, she probably still likes girls. She just fell for the one guy.

    It’s not like gay people don’t have fantasies of the one straight person they like falling for them. Still, all the magic did was change how she saw people for a little while. It didn’t change her, it just let her talk to women for awhile without fainting. If that was all it took for her to fall for a dude she was probably bisexual all along.

  • Mike Nieto

    Thank god for you guys.

  • froyton

    Destructoid, you say? Let me guess…. it was written by Jed?

  • WHMBoar

    Man, SJWs put so much stock into the “She was drugged!” argument, but completely ignore why drugging people is bad. Soleil was not raped, she was not forced to do something she didn’t like, she did not have her inhibitions artificially lowered she did not get any more drowsy or sleepy than normal, she was still perfectly alert. This is not what “Drugging” a person means.

  • Nonscpo

    Ladies and gentlemen, gaming journalism in 2015!

  • sanic

    I kept hearing about some fire emblem controversy but had no computer access the last week, this is pathetic to an insane degree.

  • Furyhunter

    Just because it’s a Japanese stereotype/cliche doesn’t make it an acceptable one. Japan’s got some serious issues with how it addresses sexuality in their media, just like we have in the west.

    You make assumptions about gay people here just like the game is making assumptions.

    Kamui takes advantage of the character by putting them in an abnormal thinking state. This is not consent.

  • Zizal

    They can write the characters the way they want. If they want to cure a gay character in a video game then they can but anyway it’s not realistic since you can’t fix something by choice. Your culture and what offends you doesn’t mean anything to others. Your culture and the way you think isn’t the standard that everyone should follow. Fags are degenerate and harmful to societies and should never represented in any media in positive light lol.

  • Furyhunter

    Weird, it’s almost like nobody should ever listen to your opinion on sexuality, or really anything else ever anyway.

  • alexxeno

    In part because it’s an extra step away from their own preferences so it’s harder for them to understand. I mean a guy looks at a lesbian and may rationalize it(because unless you have experienced it personally, it’s near impossible to not have to rationalize something) as them behaving like a guy in that regard. But when you go “I like both” They lose even that point of reference. Now that’s not a clear cut explanation of why EVERYONE who hates Bi’s hates Bi’s. It’s just a food for thought because understanding has to be both ways. Also while he is ignoring the fact that Soleil may be Bi-sexual with a strong leaning towards women. His point on the being drugged part is still a valid reason to dislike this interaction. Though I personally find this difficult to call it “drugged”. I mean they could also have worded it as the MC just disguising himself as Female with magic (though then the question of why he never uses this magic anywhere else would be created…) Though I am sad that you can’t be in an lesbian relationship with her, it seems like such a… wasted chance? but I don’t know enough about the character.

  • Bababooey

    As you can see with that post from an Anti-Social Justice Warrior (asjw), its always about social justice issues with them. It’s never about ethics in journalism. More proof that #gamergate is really about being antisocial and excluding diversity. Jeffgoldblumthereitis.gif

  • Bababooey

    What people? You mean the #gamergate crowd? The never cared about ethics in journalism. It has always been about going after progressives and their views. See Jim Sterling Son and everyone in gaming with a vagina.

  • Ash

    Da fudge did I just read… {ಠ___ಠ};

  • Jettythesunfish

    As I thought: situation ENTIRELY overblown.

  • Seansong1

    localization intensifies

  • Sam

    Thank you for the translation, it is less problematic than many of the other news posts about the issue. I don’t think anything is really lost by taking it out though

  • v85rawdeal
  • Jeff Bomb

    So I read this and, well, let’s break it down for a second:

    Soleil says, directly, that she is attracted to cute girls and they make her faint, and she also says that the men are ugly. That’s a pretty clear, if not direct statement than an implication that she’s gay.

    Next the main character, for whatever reason, without her knowledge, spikes her drink with a magic potion which makes it so that she sees gender as swapped. Regardless of her reaction to it he spikes her drink without her knowledge, that is clear and inarguable it’s right there.

    Next, the main character, aware that she is gay, proposes to her, and, because she fell in love with him when she saw him as a woman, she accepts.

    In other words, the moral that this is getting at, is that all gay people have to do to be straight is to just try and see the other person as a different gender. “Have you tried pretending he’s a woman?” Essentially. How does that not play into the ideas put up by gay conversion therapists? This dialogue is arguing that someone’s sexual orientation is flimsy and can be changed very easily.

    I seriously see people here going “psh those GAME JOURNALISTS didn’t READ IT” but like, I think they did dude.

    I mean, yeah, Soleil is written so that she likes it. No shit dude she’s a fictional character she can be written however the writer wants. The writer didn’t want her to act like she sees what’s happening as wrong, because the writer didn’t see what’s happening as wrong, so he wrote her so she didn’t see what was happening as wrong.

  • Doortothe

    Great that you gave us the actual dialogue from the scene. Very nice.

    These support conversations are definitely not as bad as first reported. I still have issues with the fact that she was drugged without her knowledge or consent. Other than that these conversations look like a friend trying to help another friend with an important issue.

    Also Nintendo of America saying the ‘controversial’ scene is not in the game is technically not a lie.

  • Joe Linderman-Barton

    Wait so….can you marry soleil if your character is a woman? Since she you know….likes women

  • Shitakei

    Nope.

  • Joe Linderman-Barton

    Well….then that totally IS homophobic…I mean sure STORYWISE it makes sense, but….ya gotta remember the developers ultimately made a lesbian or at LEAST a bi girl that can only marry a guy…..sure the story explains it, but the developers made it that way in the first place and then just made the story fit it…

  • Shitakei

    She never marries any women, don’t do the quest line and she marries some other dude.

    But SJWs gonna SJW and this little shitstorm might convince Nintendo to axe any LGBT characters in the future.

    Heck of a job Offenditrons!

  • Joe Linderman-Barton

    I just think if they establish that she likes chicks…..then you should get to marry her as a chick….I mean why not do that? I kinda feel like they avoided making that possible for some reason. I mean they already have two other gay interests so I think it’s pretty stupid that they went out of their way to make a potential third one totally throw that away

  • Shitakei

    You need to understand Japanese culture to understand this.

  • João Carlos Honório Pedro

    Except she’s never explicitly a lesbian.

    “I’m very weak against cute girls.” can be just as adequately compared to the trope of the girl that can’t hold it together around puppies and wants help overcoming that handicap.

    Personally, I think it would’ve been better if she could *also* marry a female character, but this isn’t a deal breaker. People are bitching about something that just isn’t explicitly there and your assumption that this is some nefarious thing just doesn’t fit what is actually in the game.

  • Joe Linderman-Barton

    Eh she does mention its when she gets near one that’s “her type” thats kinda a weird choice of words if she’s not attracted to them.

  • João Carlos Honório Pedro

    My puppy metaphor still stands. “Her type” of girl being a redhead can just as easily be “her favourite puppy” being a corgi. I think this is one of those situations where you *can* read it in a couple different ways, I just choose the one that makes more sense, culturally speaking. The whole questline is one giant trope which is used semi-regularly in Japanese games which banks on the premise that a character is being gimped (either power or, as is this case, mentally) by something outside their control which is done as a joke to showcase a more goofy side to the character. I can’t recall names, but I do remember this trope being applied to a villain with the object of their affection being cats, IIRC. Before anyone flips their lid at any content in a game, maybe they should consider the culture it comes from first.

    But, even IF the character happens to be a lesbian, it’s still not a conversion therapy because the character falls in love with “the person” and not “the male”. Which, IMO, is rather sweet.

  • Minty Roller

    The male char didnt drug her to make her STOP LIKING CUTE GIRLS AND HATE THEM or even to like men, its so that she STOP FAINTING AROUND THEM. If anything, it can be argued hes helping her. Coz you know, fainting on a battlefield is a big damn problem isn’t it?
    The funny thing is, it DIDN’T WORK. DOH.

    Second, theres nothing explicit she is gay. She is not. She is a bi, at best. Yes, bi people exists. Proof? If the player chooses not to pursue her storyline, she marries another male char.

    You are why SJW are written off as ridiculously blind overzealous idiots. You all became essentially the exact people that you hate so much.

  • Billy

    I prefer this over the joke of a localization I just found.

  • So how is it taking advantage to put her in a way that would make it easier for her to be around cute girls? Considering the powder wears off, you’re just some Yurifag screaming their ass off that a game doesn’t want to pander to your own tastes, so you point fingers at straight men as being some harmful force.

    It’s innocuous because gay people aren’t some machine to program where you know exactly what people they do end up liking. You’re running on shit identity politics here.

    It’s not a Japanese stereotype. It’s life. Maybe do your research and learn that deviations occur in life, and life is not obligated to pander to some random loser on the internet.

    The game isn’t wrong. The developers aren’t wrong. YOU’RE WRONG.

  • Furyhunter

    2 year late reply bitch, go whine about men’s rights somewhere else.

  • Only when you stop whining about women’s rights that aren’t being violated, retarded cunt.